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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: tom-dick on Wednesday 31 December 14 07:26 GMT (UK)

Title: henrietta tutty
Post by: tom-dick on Wednesday 31 December 14 07:26 GMT (UK)
Henrietta Tutty,born in 1920 in co.Down,Ireland.she married Wayne Dowling Matthews in american church in avenue Georges v, Paris,France.I think in 1947-1948.Iam trying to find out the exact year and where can I get a copy of the wedding.Wayne Dowling Matthews was in the American army. Any help with this much appreciated.Happy New Year,Tom.
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: ShaunJ on Wednesday 31 December 14 08:51 GMT (UK)
Just noting some inconsistencies - you've previously said that the marriage was in the American Cathedral, Avenue George V, and that her husband was in the American Red Cross.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=622459.0
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 31 December 14 08:58 GMT (UK)
Another thread about Henrietta Tutty here-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=708472
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: tomdick on Sunday 11 January 26 11:14 GMT (UK)
I am returning to Henrietta again.This is what I know with your help and what I have found out.She was born in 1920 in N.Ireland,daughter of John and Elizabethr and Mrs  Tutty.I had been told that she joined the british army in W.W.2.My mother had a paper cutting and I will put it here.PORTADOWN GIRL WED IN PARIS.HONEYMOON IN ULSTER.Abride from Portadown who,with her American husband,has spent part of her honeymoon in Ulster,was recently married in Paris.Formerly Miss Henrietta (Etta)Tutty,daughter of Mr and Mrs.J.W.Tutty.of Thomas Street,she has married Mr Wayne Dowling Matthews,Beverley Hills,California.Mr and MrsDowling Matthews are both attached to the American Red Cross.He is Directorof Transportation for the Continent.His wife has been Administrative Assistant to the A.R.C. in Paris for the last twelve months.She was given away by the retired Acting Commissioner A.R.C. in Europe.Mr. D.S.Nomady.The Commissioner of A.R.C. in Europe.Mr W.A.Stephens,was best man and Miss Margery Lumb,secretary to the Commissioner,was bridesmaid.Rev,R.L.Alexander,chaplain,U.S.Army,officiated,and the ceremony was in the American Catheral,Avenuee George V.Miss Tutty wore a wedding gown of heavy ivory satin with a train,and her headdress was a halo of natural white lilac.She carried a cluster of white roses.The bridesmaids gown was of cerise velvet and she carried red roses.Guests at the reception included Prince and Princess Dadiana,Count and Countess de Ganay,and officials of the A.R.C.

I think the wedding was in 1945,the exact date I dont know.The marriage did not last too long as I think they divorced around 1946.She then married Rupert L.Rupert. in 1952 in Las Vegus.What I amtrying to find out is the exact date for the divorce  and if she had a child.I dont need to know the childs name or anything,just if she had a child,she was buried in Arlington Cemetary,1999. Any help with this greatley appreciated,thank you,tom
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 11 January 26 11:19 GMT (UK)
Did you respond to the post from the descendant on your thread

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=622459.0
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: tomdick on Sunday 11 January 26 11:31 GMT (UK)
hello CaroleW,yes I did but she did not know too much about her grandfather and she was going to get back if she found anything out.thank you,tom
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: tomdick on Sunday 11 January 26 11:34 GMT (UK)
I am hoping that by posting the wedding,somebody might be able to help.They were high profile jobs at the time,thank you tom
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 11 January 26 11:40 GMT (UK)
It appeared in the Belfast Telegraph, 21 Dec 1945.
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: jorose on Sunday 11 January 26 11:48 GMT (UK)
You could try contacting the American Cathedral in Paris directly:
https://amcathparis.com/archive-ministry
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: tomdick on Sunday 11 January 26 11:54 GMT (UK)
hello jorose,I did years ago but did not get help but I will definitely try again,thank you tom
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 11 January 26 13:25 GMT (UK)

I am returning to Henrietta again.This is what I know with your help and what I have found out.She was born in 1920 in N.Ireland,daughter of John and Elizabethr and Mrs  Tutty.

Born 11/2/1920 at 2 Sugar Island, Newry, Co Down.
Daughter of John William Tutty, a constable in the R.I.C., and his wife Elizabeth nee Anderson.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1920/01227/1510781.pdf

Her parent's marriage, 5 November 1918 at Magheracloone Parish Church, Co Monaghan.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1918/09728/5529850.pdf

Magheracloone civil parish, Co Monaghan
https://www.townlands.ie/monaghan/magheracloone/


KG

Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 11 January 26 14:00 GMT (UK)

Quote
Daughter of John William Tutty, a constable in the R.I.C., and his wife Elizabeth nee Anderson.

Maternal grandparents George and Henrietta Anderson and their children - 1911 census.
Farmer living in Camaghy townland, Co Monaghan.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Monaghan/Enagh/Camaghy/797641/
https://www.townlands.ie/monaghan/farney/magheracloone/enagh/camaghy/


Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 11 January 26 15:25 GMT (UK)
Have you picked up Henrietta Tutty Rupert via Col ROBERT** Lee Rupert's burial at Arlington 1999? Does it identify marriage as 1952?
Can be found on FindaGrave

Note "Robert" not "Rupert" as originally posted
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 11 January 26 15:54 GMT (UK)
Is this the family?
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ueQrAAAAIBAJ&pg=PA7&dq=tutty+rupert&article_id=1170,1390641&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDlLzR64OSAxXGTkEAHRnAD6oQ6AF6BAgNEAM#v=onepage&q=tutty%20rupert&f=false
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: TreeSpirit on Sunday 11 January 26 16:16 GMT (UK)
Civil Marriage Certificate:
Arrondissement: #16
Date: 12 Dec 1945
Cert: #2178

Goto Image#16:
https://archives.paris.fr/archives-numerisees/etat-civil-de-paris/etat-civil-a-partir-de-1860/consulter-les-actes-detat-civil?arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--ficheFocus=&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bmode%5D=simple&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bop%5D=AND&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a8996ae1%5D%5Bop%5D=AND&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a8996ae1%5D%5Bq%5D%5B%5D=Mariages&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a8996ae1%5D%5Bextras%5D%5Bmode%5D=select&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89a5742%5D%5Bop%5D=AND&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89a5742%5D%5Bq%5D%5B%5D=16&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89a5742%5D%5Bextras%5D%5Bmode%5D=select&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89b23b8%5D%5Bop%5D=AND&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89b23b8%5D%5Bextras%5D%5Bmode%5D=input&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89c2d61%5D%5Bop%5D=AND&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89c2d61%5D%5Bq%5D%5B%5D=12%2F12%2F1945&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89c2d61%5D%5Bextras%5D%5Bmode%5D=input&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--from=0&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--resultSize=25&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--contenuIds%5B%5D=10873331&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--modeRestit=arko_default_64ca1b2347e81 (https://archives.paris.fr/archives-numerisees/etat-civil-de-paris/etat-civil-a-partir-de-1860/consulter-les-actes-detat-civil?arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--ficheFocus=&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bmode%5D=simple&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bop%5D=AND&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a8996ae1%5D%5Bop%5D=AND&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a8996ae1%5D%5Bq%5D%5B%5D=Mariages&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a8996ae1%5D%5Bextras%5D%5Bmode%5D=select&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89a5742%5D%5Bop%5D=AND&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89a5742%5D%5Bq%5D%5B%5D=16&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89a5742%5D%5Bextras%5D%5Bmode%5D=select&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89b23b8%5D%5Bop%5D=AND&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89b23b8%5D%5Bextras%5D%5Bmode%5D=input&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89c2d61%5D%5Bop%5D=AND&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89c2d61%5D%5Bq%5D%5B%5D=12%2F12%2F1945&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--filtreGroupes%5Bgroupes%5D%5B0%5D%5Barko_default_64ca1a89c2d61%5D%5Bextras%5D%5Bmode%5D=input&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--from=0&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--resultSize=25&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--contenuIds%5B%5D=10873331&arko_default_64ca19f9b29b5--modeRestit=arko_default_64ca1b2347e81)
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 11 January 26 16:48 GMT (UK)

Henrietta Tutty's maternal grandparents-
Marriage of George Anderson and Henrietta McKeown - 27 August 1888 at Magheracloone Parish Church.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10775/5929784.pdf

Birth record - Elizabeth Anderson - 18 September 1898 at Camaghy. Registered 22 October  #445
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1898/02062/1788349.pdf

1901 census - Camaghy (Enagh, Monaghan)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Monaghan/Enagh/Camaghy/1624344/


Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 11 January 26 16:50 GMT (UK)
TS,
Magic - and what a treat to be faced with a typed rather than manuscript record.
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: tomdick on Sunday 11 January 26 23:22 GMT (UK)
Thank you everybody,so much information.Hopefully it will help other people who research this family.Its amazing how news paper clippings can lead to this.Its intrigueing that she married Wayne and then married Rupert.How did she meet Rupert.She was a very interisting woman.Very interesting times as well.If I can find more information about this I will post it,it is hard now as all the people I talked to have passed.From what I have been told she got a divorce in Idaho but they did not know why she went there.Once again thank you all for what you have found,tom
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: joger on Monday 12 January 26 09:43 GMT (UK)
Hello and Happy New Year to everybody,

Ancestry has Wayne Dowling MATTHEWS .
I tried to find a birth in Paris but the registers or the birth tables aren't on line for this period.
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 12 January 26 10:01 GMT (UK)
Quote
From what I have been told she got a divorce in Idaho but they did not know why she went there.
Each U.S. state has its own divorce laws. Some states are more lenient than others regarding grounds, length of process, residency, etc. It may be that it was easier to get a divorce in Idaho than wherever she was living.

Here's Idaho's current information about divorce records-
https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/services-programs/birth-marriage-death-records/about-marriage-and-divorce-records
Here's the index on Family Search-
https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Idaho,_Divorce_Index_-_FamilySearch_Historical_Records
Nothing obvious under Wayne Matthews or Henrietta Matthews so wonder if they divorced before 1947 or not in Idaho.
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 12 January 26 10:25 GMT (UK)
Wayne D. Matthews or War Department, with a Frankfurt, Germany address, listed as married in 1947-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:245C-65W?lang=en (click on image to see full details)
Wayne D. Matthews (born 1895) listed as married in 1949-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KXHZ-XMP?lang=en (click on image to see full details)
1950 Census his wife is listed as Mary (possibly the wife Mary Jane mentioned in his obituary)-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6FQ1-CCSV?lang=en

There a Mrs. Henrietta Matthews born c1920 going to U.S. from Japan in 1952 (with a British passport) who may or may not be the correct Henrietta-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KXHJ-K7C?lang=en
A Henrietta Rupert travelling in 1956 on a British passport-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2HZK-7GH?lang=en
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: joger on Monday 12 January 26 10:46 GMT (UK)
Quote
From what I have been told she got a divorce in Idaho but they did not know why she went there.
Each U.S. state has its own divorce laws. Some states are more lenient than others regarding grounds, length of process, residency, etc. It may be that it was easier to get a divorce in Idaho than wherever she was living.



Here's Idaho's current information about divorce records-
https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/services-programs/birth-marriage-death-records/about-marriage-and-divorce-records
Here's the index on Family Search-
https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Idaho,_Divorce_Index_-_FamilySearch_Historical_Records
Nothing obvious under Wayne Matthews or Henrietta Matthews so wonder if they divorced before 1947 or not in Idaho.

Yes but in 1952 Henrietta MAT(T)HEWS, 32 ( so born around 1920) travels saying she is married ( if this Henrietta is the right one).She landed in september 1952, is it possible that she divorced and then marrried R.Rupert within 3 months?
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: joger on Monday 12 January 26 11:21 GMT (UK)
I found that Wayne Dowling MATTHEWS have had 4 wives :

May Holm Cochran ( they had a child also called Wayne Dowling in 1925)

Thelma L. ? who was the person "who will always know  his address in 1942 in the registration card
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-ZWH5-V?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AV48Y-4G3&action=view&
cc=1861144&lang=fr&groupId=

Henrietta Tutty married 1945 in Paris, Wayne is said to be divorced from Thelma.

Mary ?, his wife when he died
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 12 January 26 16:06 GMT (UK)
Quote
Yes but in 1952 Henrietta MAT(T)HEWS, 32 ( so born around 1920) travels saying she is married ( if this Henrietta is the right one).She landed in september 1952, is it possible that she divorced and then marrried R.Rupert within 3 months?
I did say it may or may not have been the correct Henrietta. She is the right age and travelling on a British passport. If it is her it's possible she was divorced and that the 'M' for married on the manifest is an error.
Title: Re: henrietta tutty
Post by: tomdick on Monday 12 January 26 21:11 GMT (UK)
hello everybody,thank you for the information.I believe that the Henrietta Matthews is the same.She would have been a British subject as N.Ireland was part of the U.K.,also the age.
Henrietta Matthews arrived at San Francisco on the 14/sept/1952.She gave her address as in VanDergrift,pa
Henrietta then married Robert Rupert in Las Vegas on 20/sept 1952.
He was also a divorcee.It seems that they were involved for awhile, and makes me think that the divorce might have happened later and as soon as it came through the married in Vegas.He was a highly decorated soldier serving in W.W.2,Korea,Vietnam,thank you for everything,tom