RootsChat.Com

Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Wiggy on Monday 29 December 14 04:18 GMT (UK)

Title: Last one - for now. Completed - thank you
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 29 December 14 04:18 GMT (UK)
Another birth - this time  May 1659 in Ottery St Marys Devon. 

John son of John Clapp of . . .?  ?   . . and of Jane his wife was born in this ?? the eighteenth . . . .  infant? and baptised ? . . . . .

Last entry on the clip.

Thanks for any help you are able to give.

Wiggy    :)
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: sandra Bee on Monday 29 December 14 05:00 GMT (UK)
John the son of Charles Martyn or Maztyn and his wife John (unsure of rest). Sandra
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 29 December 14 05:17 GMT (UK)
Thanks Sandra!   :)     

 - but it is the last one on the page I am interested in  -  John Clapp.   ;)                 
I didn't make it very clear did I.  Sorry.

  I just included more of the page so people could compare letters and method of writing.   :)

Wiggy   :)
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: sami on Monday 29 December 14 06:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Wiggy:

This isn't much help but here is the familysearch reference for the Baptism:

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NRMD-8FN

It lists the Birth on the 18 May 1659 and the Christening on 19 May 1659.

I can't make out much on the record:

John the son of John Clapp of ?ozley ? & of Jane his wife was borne in this ? the eighteenth ? and Baptised also the ? ? ? ?

That last line is a tough one  :P

sami
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: crowsfeet on Monday 29 December 14 07:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Wiggy

My Guess:
John the Son of John Clapp at ?Mosley ?hus-- and of
Jane his wife was borne on -- the eighteenth

?infant and baptised

last line may be: Thursday - - -  X X by me

Regards Crowsfeet
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 29 December 14 07:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Crowsfeet,

yes  . . .    think it might be the name of a farm or something maybe   . . .and of Jane  .       

Think you are correct about the Thursday though.   ;)

Thanks for your interest - tricky isn't it!     :)
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: youngtug on Monday 29 December 14 08:15 GMT (UK)
John the son of John Clapp of ??????  ?????  & of Jane his wife was born ^ [in the 7/8th ye?? [year?] ] the eighteenth instant and baptised ???
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: youngtug on Monday 29 December 14 08:16 GMT (UK)
Funny, that should have been all question marks, not santas
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: sandra Bee on Monday 29 December 14 08:27 GMT (UK)
John the son of John Clapp of Mozley Harbo? of Jane his wife was in this  ?   born on the 18th instant and baptised also tho?    can't read any further . Sandra
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 29 December 14 08:31 GMT (UK)
(YT - If you back up more than 3 question marks at once they change into 'Huh' type smilies!    ;) ;) )

Thanks YT - I think you are correct about the 'instant'  - not sure about the 7/8 year though

Sandra - again thanks - think the last bit is just saying the same day as above baptisms in May 1659

  and I think the sign just before the 'of' Jane is an & sign. 

You could well be right about the name of the property - or whatever.  I was seeing something similar but wasn't at all sure.

Thank you!   ;)   Nothing like a collective or eyes to help sort something out  - thank you  all.

See if anyone else can see anything . . . . . .    ;)
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Billyblue on Monday 29 December 14 08:46 GMT (UK)
I make it Mozley which is probably Mosley as Croswfeet says.

eighteenth instant i.e. 18th of this month (whatever month it was - oh I see it was May)

Dawn M

Strange - I hit Post and walked away ten minutes ago, and now find nothing happened ???  DM
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: mosiefish on Monday 29 December 14 08:58 GMT (UK)
Think the place is Norley.

Mo
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 29 December 14 09:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Mo,

Would Norley be a farm name - or a place nearby, do you think?

Thanks for looking in.

Wiggy 
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: mosiefish on Monday 29 December 14 09:17 GMT (UK)
Not sure, but I am still  looking Wiggy  :)

Mo
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: youngtug on Monday 29 December 14 09:38 GMT (UK)
 From the 12th century to 1752, the civil or legal year in England began on 25 March, Lady Day. The [7/8th] [I think it looks like 8/9] would be because the birth would have been between the 1st Jan, and 25th March. The baptism was in May.
 I am not sure about the wording after the 8/9, might not be year
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 29 December 14 10:28 GMT (UK)
No I don't think it says year - to tell the truth I can't even see the numerals yet - still trying though!

Thanks YT.   :)



On other records - not these, the days are noted as 'After the Visitation' - what visitation would that be - Christmas??   Annunciation??   Michaelmas??
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Monday 29 December 14 11:25 GMT (UK)
Don't know if this helps

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Bookbox on Monday 29 December 14 11:34 GMT (UK)
I read it as ...

John the son of John Clapp of Norley husb(andman) & of
Jane his wife was borne ^in this p(ar)ishe^ the Eighteenth
instant and Baptised alsoe the xjxth (19th)
   Thursday (...?) the xxvjth

The last line at the foot of the page may relate to the date the entries were written up in the register. In any case I don't think it's connected with the baptism.

There is a Norley in the parish of North Lew, near Hatherleigh, but it is some 40-odd miles from Ottery.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/places?DEV,SX505991,5,North%20Lew

The 'Visitation' would be the episcopal visitation, when the Anglican bishop (or his representative) would visit the parishes in the deanery to inform himself about the ministry there and satisfy himself that everything was in order. Theoretically the parish registers might be inspected at that time.
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: youngtug on Monday 29 December 14 12:40 GMT (UK)
That  seem's a better translation than mine.
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: sandra Bee on Monday 29 December 14 15:53 GMT (UK)
Still think it is Mosley as sthere is an M written the same way on the page.
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Brit2015 on Monday 29 December 14 16:47 GMT (UK)
This MAY help you !!
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Bookbox on Monday 29 December 14 17:23 GMT (UK)
The hand used in this register is English Secretary, not court hand.

In this hand, the capital letters M and N are very similar. They begin with the same flourish, but the M has one more downstroke and upstroke than the N.

Still think it is Mosley as sthere is an M written the same way on the page.

Sandra bee, can you say which letter M you were looking at for comparison? For example, there is a capital M in the heading, for the month of Maye.
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: sandra Bee on Monday 29 December 14 17:51 GMT (UK)
Looking again at it the M in Maye starts with the florish and realise now it could be an N with a florish.  Could be N possibly.  Sandra
Title: Re: Last one - for now.
Post by: Wiggy on Monday 29 December 14 21:01 GMT (UK)
Once again thank you all for your assistance -

Malky - that did make it clearer didn't it!

Thanks everyone.     :)  Much obliged for all the help!  And for the explanations. 

I sort of guessed it may have been an episcopal visit but needed it confirmed.   :)

Wiggy 

p.s.   Love it Brit - but   Hmmmmm  very confusing isn't it!!   ;D ;D

Title: Re: Last one - for now. Completed - thank you
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Tuesday 30 December 14 06:19 GMT (UK)
I, personally am leaning towards the spelling of "Nosley" but thats only an opinion. It is in the same general area of Mosley.

Nosley

NOSLEY, an extra-parochial liberty, in the hundred of Gartree, S. division of the county of Leicester, 8½ miles (N. by E.) from Market-Harborough; containing 20 inhabitants. A chantry, or college, was founded about 1274, by Sir Anketine de Martival; it was dedicated to the Ascension of Our Lord and the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin, and in the reign of Henry VI. was valued at £6. 13. 4. per annum. The liberty comprises 1316 acres of land, nearly all the property of Sir A. G. Hazlerigg, Bart., of Nosley Hall, a fine old mansion in a small park, which has belonged to his family since 1414: the Hall contains many valuable paintings.


From :-  http://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-dict/england/pp446-461#h3-0007

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: Last one - for now. Completed - thank you
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 30 December 14 06:40 GMT (UK)
Yes but these records come from Devon near Honiton!   ;)

So Leicestershire doesn't sound right!

Wiggy   :)
Title: Re: Last one - for now. Completed - thank you
Post by: Bookbox on Tuesday 30 December 14 10:05 GMT (UK)
I, personally am leaning towards the spelling of "Nosley" but thats only an opinion.

I see the 3rd letter of the place name as r rather than s.
It is the same as the middle letter of the word borne.
Just another opinion.  :)
Title: Re: Last one - for now. Completed - thank you
Post by: Polldoll on Tuesday 30 December 14 20:14 GMT (UK)
I agree with Bookbox.. I think it's Norley ( Devon) Definitely an R in my opinion  Wiggy ....
Title: Re: Last one - for now. Completed - thank you
Post by: Wiggy on Tuesday 30 December 14 20:26 GMT (UK)
Thanks one and all!

 I reckon it is too - (specially as the records come from a neighbouring parish!)

Wiggy    ;)