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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Nick_ on Saturday 27 December 14 00:22 GMT (UK)
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Hi guys, merry christmas to you all.
I am starting on a project to trace the owners of my family home back through the centuries, but I am having difficulty knowing where to start with this. I know my own family, of course, as well as the preceding two sets of owners, but that's where the trail stops. On top of that, I cannot find any reference to the house in the 1901 or 1911 online census data. I am wondering A) whether those records are incomplete, or B) whether the house might've been registered under a different name.
I am pretty new to this whole genealogy subject, so would be grateful for any tips. The house is very old (I am not sure of the exact date, but the older parts date back to the 17th Century I believe) and, from what I gather, has a rather eclectic history. I am just not sure where to begin. Would I be advised to go to the land registry or parish records? Or can I do most of my research online?
All the best and many thanks for any help you can give!
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Hi, and welcome to Rootschat, if you can give us the name of the house, the road and area it is in, it may give us clues to its whereabouts in the census for you :)
Keyboard86
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Hi, and welcome to Rootschat, if you can give us the name of the house, the road and area it is in, it may give us clues to its whereabouts in the census for you :)
Keyboard86
Thanks for getting back to me.
The house is called Ley House (some variants are occasionally used, such as Leyhouse and Lay House) and it's on a private road (which, to the best of my knowledge of the area, has no name) just off a road called the Old Hollow. It's in Worth in West Sussex.
Really grateful for your help! :)
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Hi,
Have a look for Leyhouse Farm Cottage on Google Earth. In Street View it appears to be down a private road but I cannot read the signs by the gate.
:)
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As you say you may find a search of the land registry will be helpful at this point. If census records aren't coming up with anything there is a pretty good chance it changed names/had no name. Could it have been a cottage that was once part of an estate?
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I've never known the lane to formally have a name, though it's entirely possible that it does. If so, it's not marked on OS maps and the house's address is that of the larger road. I think that, some years ago, the house may have been the old farm house, but, as it currently is, it's a 9 bedroom house that I can't believe has left no impression on historical data!
I can find the house on English Heritage listings, because it's Grade II listed: http://list.english-heritage.org.uk/resultsingle.aspx?uid=1025570 so I can't quite understand why it wouldn't show up in census data. It says on that listing that the house may have been previously registered as Lay House, but, even so, that doesn't provide me with many clues from the census data.
I'm wondering whether there are paid-for services that I need to join before I'll be able to properly access the census data? Maybe I'm hitting a wall because I haven't entered payment details or anything... Thanks for the help!
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Hi it looks like in at least 1901 the area was Copthorne, Worth, East Grinstead, as their is an Elizabeth Awcock b c 1828 Balcombe, Sussex living at Ley House Cottage Rowfant?, scanning the original/s may give a guide as to whether this is in the correct area of Old Hollow perhaps?
Census Ref RG13/906/91/11
Keyboard86
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Heritage couldn't help?
I found this
http://www.1901censusonline.com/results.asp?wci=ad_results&searchwci=ad_search
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This might help too. Haven't read through it but looks like there is some good resources.
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Oops.. you can tell I'm tired- forgot the link :)
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-place/houses.htm
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Lay House Farm on the 1870 map at http://maps.nls.uk/view/102347529#zoom=6&lat=1332&lon=3510&layers=BT
Stan
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It's on the 1871 census, occupied by two King families - heads are George and James - both labourers in their 20's. It is called Lay House Farm. Partial ref; RG10 1059
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It's also on 1901census as Ley House Cottage, occupied by a carter, Henry Carman and his family and by George Awlescock, labourer, and a housekeeper. Part ref; RG13/0906/F91
It's on 1911 as Leyhouse - not allowed to post details.
I had a quick look for other years, and didn't spot it but I'm sure you could find it by looking for adjacent houses instead.
You could also try Historical Directories on http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/cdm/landingpage/collection/p16445coll4. It's free.
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1841 HO107 Piece 1111 Book 14 Folio 31 page 23 Jonathan Cook, age 30, farmer
1851 HO107 Piece 1641 Folio 382 Page 40, Peter Stoner, age 32 Ag Lab.
1861 RG9 Piece 580 Folio 34 Page 29, Thomas Hudson, 70, farmer 110 acres employing 2 men
Stan
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I love how everyone has jumped into help-- guess we all share our love of a mystery! :)
I wonder if the contributors would mind sharing how they found the information in case others would like to do the same and run into the same difficulties. I'd be interested to know myself.
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I select the census district and go through the census page by page, to find the entry.
To search the 1911 census, using the Street Address, put just Worth in Parish or town, and Sussex for County, you will then get a list of all the streets in Worth. Go through them looking for Layhouse.
Stan
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Thanks Stan. That's helpful.
Pauline.
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I use a site which allows address search (reluctant to name names as look ups aren't allowed, you can PM me if you want to know 8) ). I selected the county, Sussex - and put "Ley" and " Lay" into the address box. There weren't many in the enumeration district of Worth.
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Morning Chronicle - Wednesday 17 December 1851 "Insolvent Petitioners: William Pilbeam, of Layhouse Farm, Worth, Sussex, out of business.
Dairy Shorthorn Association - 1932 Geoffrey Tetley, Layhouse, Worth, Sussex.
Stan
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Wow, what an amazing response. I'm really grateful for people helping me out, and for people taking the time to explain their processes. I think I have an idea of the 19th century ownership now, and I already have a rough portrait of the 20th century ownership too.
Obviously, census data for post-1911 is not yet available, so does anyone have a tips for finding more recent occupants and even potentially tracing their ancestors? I realise that I am diverging slightly from normal genealogy but I hope that's ok!
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The London Gazette 3 April 1883 Issue: 25218 Page: 1811
Notice is hereby given, that the Partnership which has for some time past been carried on by Thomas Heasman, Arthur Heasman, and Alfred Heasman, at East Grinstead, Rowfant Mill, and Layhouse Farm, in the county of Sussex, in the trade or business of Millers, Farmers, Corn, Coal, Hay, Straw, and Seed Merchants was this day dissolved by mutual consent. This business will henceforth be carried on by Alfred Heasman and Arthur Heasman, underv the style or firm of Heasman Bros., by whom all debts owing to or from the late firm will be received and paid. As witness our hands: - East Grinstead, 20th March 1883.
Stan
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so does anyone have a tips for finding more recent occupants and even potentially tracing their ancestors?
Geoffrey Tetley was the farmer farming there in the 1930s.
Stan
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I think I have an idea of the 19th century ownership now, and I already have a rough portrait of the 20th century ownership too.
Obviously, census data for post-1911 is not yet available, so does anyone have a tips for finding more recent occupants and even potentially tracing their ancestors?
Don't forget, occupants and owners weren't necessarily the same, especially before about 1950. I doubt if the carters and labourers who lived there in 1800s actually owned the house. To find out more, and for earlier times, you would have to see what was available at the local record office (eg electoral rolls, poor rate records and hearth tax records) and also probably at the National Archives.
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A search on Google for "Geoffrey tetley sussex" gives a possible death in 1947 and a firm of solicitors in East Grinstead handling his estate, in The Gazette. May be yours
Mike
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Don't forget, occupants and owners weren't necessarily the same, especially before about 1950. I doubt if the carters and labourers who lived there in 1800s actually owned the house. To find out more, and for earlier times, you would have to see what was available at the local record office (eg electoral rolls, poor rate records and hearth tax records) and also probably at the National Archives.
That's a really interesting point. I suspect the farm and the house was owned by one of the more affluent local families, possibly at Rowfant House. If I go to the local record office, will the information be publicly available to me? Or is it limited to descendants...etc (I am sorry that this is probably a sickeningly beginner question!).
And yes, Mazi, from what I can establish that's the Geoffrey Tetley in question. I think the family probably sold up in the 30s and have moved around the country, though their genealogy is fairly well charted. I am going to try and get in touch with one or more of his grandchildren to try and establish whether he inherited the house or bought it, and when. Thanks for all the help everyone!
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If I go to the local record office, will the information be publicly available to me? Or is it limited to descendants...etc (I am sorry that this is probably a sickeningly beginner question!).
The information at the Record Office will be publicly available. You may need to get a CARN card to use the Record Office, which is free from the R O,; you will need to take your driving licence or passport as identification. Look on the RO website for more info. You may also need to order stuff in advance if it is stored offsite; again you will get info from the website. I'd do some homework (from the website ::) ) then go along to the RO and have a chat to the staff. RO staff are usually very helpful, but what they offer varies from place to place.