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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Kevinshouse on Wednesday 24 December 14 15:28 GMT (UK)
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I have only 1 christian (or forename) and so have most of my family! I would love to have at least 1 more name, but it is not to be. My beautiful grandson has 3. Could anyone help me with the information that I have, that working class people were just given 1 name (mostly) and that better off people had more names? My father once told me that 1 name was considered enough, anyone any thoughts on this. Only my grandmother had 2 names Jane Elizabeth which I think is lovely.
Kind regards
Susan :)
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All my family had more than one Christian name, but I have only got one, would like to have had a second although I am happy with my name.
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Some were given names of well off relatives with no offspring on the basis of they had to leave their money to someone, so a namesake had a higher chance
My parents said they gave me a middle name so I'd know when I was in trouble.
My dad didn't have a middle name - some of his elder siblings do (whether that was just because by baby 7 they'd run out of names they liked to give middle names as well)
My grandfather had his mother's maiden name as a middle name
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My grandson has his mothers maiden name for one of his names. Looks like most of us would like more than 1 name :)
Love the idea that names were given to children of childless relatives, to hopefully remember them in their will, I do not think any of my family could have been childless ;D
Kind regards Susan
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Some were given names of well off relatives with no offspring on the basis of they had to leave their money to someone, so a namesake had a higher chance
I had never heard of this before but would have made sense I suppose ;D
I have 6 siblings & 5 of us have middle names.
Older brother after grandad & middle name was the saint's day he was born on.
My grandmother picked mine (religious names)
Next brother after last of my paternal grandmothers brothers alive at the time & a bachelor who was head of the family croft ??? - (my brother didn't inherit the croft) !!! ;D ;D ;D
Next brother named after our g grandad but middle name we have never heard of in the family & my mother was deceased long before I was interested in asking those questions :(
Last, my sis named after my mothers sis & middle name was the forename of the landlady of my parents 1st flat with whom they remained friends until her death. She was a spinster with a business & property but my sis did not inherit anything there either ??? ;D
Annie
Added...........My daughter has 2 names. A friend of mine, her partner had an affair with a woman with an unusual name which I liked so that's where her name came from & her middle name was just a name which sounded good along with her forename & surname. I wonder if that woman I named her after is well off ??? :-)
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My sister and I don't have middle names but my brother does. When I asked my mother about this she said it was because his name was quite common (it is!) but ours weren't. I haven't come across anyone after whom he may have been Christened so I think perhaps my parents just picked a name they liked. :)
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"I have only 1 christian (or forename) and so have most of my family! I would love to have at least 1 more name, but it is not to be"
You can call yourself by any name that you choose - Your birth was registered Susan but that was your parents choice - As long as your name is not changed for fraudulent purposes - call yourself Jane Elizabeth Susan.
Jeffery
named in honour of my Scottish gran Meg Jeffery
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I come from a deeply working class family in West Yorks and not one of my direct ancestors has got two Christian names. I thought that this was the norm and that two or more Christian names were for the middle classes.
Having now done research for other peoples family history who have similar backgrounds to me I have found that it is not that simple. It seems to be that some working class families did give their children second (or third) names and some didn’t. I haven’t been able to work out why this was the case but when a family did it went right down the line.
When I was a teenager I remember asking my dad why it was that my sister and I didn't have “middle names”. I was told that when we were born my parents were so poor that they couldn't afford a middle name for us. Simple as that. I never got any other answer so when the subject of middle names comes up I am still using that justification some 45 years later.
Have a great Christmas all.
Martin
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My father and his brother both only have a single Christian name, but all of their daughters have both and their father and mother had two Christian names. My grandfather and his two brothers ran their own company which was fairly successful and the family were definitely "middle class", although their father had only been a warehouseman.
I don't think it has anything to do with class to be honest. Historically, from my research anyway, many people only seem to have had one Christian name so it may possibly be more to do with that than anything else.
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Nearly everyone in my family, going back to at least the early 1800s, has a middle name and they certainly weren't well off, most were ag labs or worked on the docks. I think a lot was just choice and perhaps family tradition.
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I would think my grandparents were working class but they and all their siblings and children had 2 Christian names. Likewise my husband's family, however, his father became middle class and only one of his sons has 2 names. Only one of our children has 2 names and that is our 2nd child, first son. We called him Neil but M.I.L complained that we hadn't called him after his father, grandfather and g.grandfather, so we gave him that 2nd name when he was baptised. He never uses it. All my children have given their children 2 names.
I don't think it's a class thing at all, when I was young it seemed to be the norm.
Lizzie
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My cousin's middle name is his mother's maiden name. His son's middle name is Marley ... after Bob. :D Not surprisingly my cousin and his wife are fans.
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In the US having two or more Christian names does make make high office easier to obtain.
George W.Bush
George H. Bush
Lyndon B. Johnson
John F. Kennedy
Harry S. Truman etc. etc..
And for our Confederate RootsChatters
Jefferson C. Davis
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In the US having two or more Christian names does make make high office easier to obtain.
George W.Bush
George H. Bush
Lyndon B. Johnson
John F. Kennedy
Harry S. Truman etc. etc..
And for our Confederate RootsChatters
Jefferson C. Davis
In the case of Harry S Truman, the S was only an initial and didn't stand for anything. That question often comes up in quizzes.
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I always felt that the first name was yours and the Middle name a family name. In my case though I was named for my initials. My mother didn't know if she could have children so when she found out she was expecting at the age of 35 decided that her daughters initials would be GEM, her little gem. Mind you if I had been male my initials would have been DAM. :D ;D
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That's one thing that a lot of parents don't think about. A family friend's surname started with D and she was going to call her son Simon Oliver until it was pointed out the problems he would encounter if he had to initial anything. He is now Oliver Simon.
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Hi Groom, on a similar note. When my ex boss and his wife were expecting their first child they decided they liked the name Jack, but when they put it with their surname they thought better of it. The surname was Cass ;D
By the way, I have 2 christian names, my middle name is the same as my mother's, we're certainly not middle class!
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I was only given one name because my mother hated having to sign her long name with two middle names!
When my grandfather registered her he added his own grandmother's surname in addition to the two names he and my grandmother had agreed. I understand he wasn't too popular ::)
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I phoned my wife yesterday.
"I'm just setting off from work, do you want me to pick up Fish and Chips on my way home?"
It was met with a stony silence.
I think she still regrets letting me name the twins.
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;D ;D ;D
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That reminded me of the story my mother told about how she and her identical twin got their names. Apparently it was decided to call them Maud Lilian and Martha May after grandparents. Her father was sent off to register them but on the way stopped off at the pub. Whilst there he had second thoughts and they ended up being called Joan and Vera. He had some explaining to do to his wife, but in later years Mum and her sister were very grateful!
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My father was born on 22nd June 1911, King George V's coronation day. He was named George in honour of the King, and with no other names, whereas his siblings all had additional names. His sister went to school the next day and announced to the class that she had a new baby brother whose name was King George.
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I don´t think it has anything to do with class. My ancestors were working class and there are many with two Christian names. My parents both had two and hated having to write so much when asked for there full names so they reduced to one for my brother and I. We were also the first not to be given family names.
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Coming from a Scottish working class background my families mainly followed the Scottish naming tradition right up to my mum and dad's generation (born in the 30s). Middle names were grannies maiden names or other family surnames.
My parents broke the mould when they gave me a totally modern name and my middle name was another Christian name.
I don't think class played a part in how many forenames were given. Think it was just family preference.
Looby :)
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One thing I regret now was not merely adding my other half's surname to my own, instead of letting my surname lapse on marriage. It'd only have meant one more initial when signing, so 3 and a surname instead of 2 and a surname. Bit late to get round to it now, though!
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I have three names (a forename and two middle), but my brother only had a first name. Apparently, my parents couldn't agree on what his middle name/s should be so he ended up with just the one. I don't think he minded though, possibly because my mum had a habit of using all my names whenever I was in trouble.
My children all have a first and middle name, apart from one who has two middle names. He was only going to have one middle name, but I was very taken by the name of a character in a book I read while I was expecting him so added it on when he was registered. He hates it and never tells anyone about it unless he has to ;D
My youngest son has my grandmother's maiden name as a first name, but it's a name that can also be a first name. He really likes it, both for the family continuity and the fact that it's not particularly commonplace but isn't 'odd'.
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One thing I regret now was not merely adding my other half's surname to my own, instead of letting my surname lapse on marriage. It'd only have meant one more initial when signing, so 3 and a surname instead of 2 and a surname. Bit late to get round to it now, though!
Not too late, start using it, you can call yourself anything by common usage - its just official things you can't :)
I only have 1 name whilst my siblings all have middle - my mother said it was because she thought my first name long enough (3 syllables). At Uni I had a professor whose middle initial meant that the shortened version of his first name was also his initials.
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All my fathers family had 2 names but only used their first names, 5 siblings
In the Roman Catholic tradition, all babies had to have a Saints name.
The Saints name could come first second or third.
Names could be reused for living siblings for example
Margaret Mary has a sister Mary Margaret
I attended school with a family who all used their 2nd names as if their first.
This caused great confusion for teacher, when she registered the children on Roll book.
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I was the youngest in our family my eldest brother (from a previous marriage) had 1 Christian name. My second brother had 3 Christian names
My sister had 4 Christian names (though I used to add a fifth name as it scanned better), I was given one name, second-hand at that being my mother's maiden surname.
Cheers
Guy
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Some people have always had fancy ideas when it comes to names.
Many years ago I attended a talk given by a professional genealogist, the subject was unusual discoveries made during the course of her research. One item was a photocopy of a baptismal register in which a baby girl had been given twenty five names, each beginning with a different letter of the alphabet, the missing letter Y was the initial letter of the surname.
I just wish I could remember the parish the above entry was found.
Jabber
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Many, many thank for all your lovely replies (I loved the one about fish and chips). :)
I was talking to my daughter about the subject over Christmas and she tells me she loves her names (lucky girl has 2). I think we get used to our names and we are quite possessive about them, and of course they were chosen by our parents. People seem to suit their name, and sometimes you cannot imagine them having any other name.
Kind regards Susan
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Going up my paternal line:
My GG Grandfather was Thomas Arnold Brown
My G Grandfather was Frederic Thomas Brown, his middle name being his father's first name.
My Grandfather was Hugh Arnold Brown, therefore given his grandfather's middle name.
My father was Roger Wyeth Bateman Brown. his two middle names were the maiden names of his grandmothers.
My name is Philip Michael Brown, both names being those chosen by my parents as fashionable at the time of my birth and names they liked.
So in summary, naming convention has probably changed over the years or diverted away from any convention or pattern of old.
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My mother only has one christian name, as do all three of her sisters. And in fact so does my older sister. But I have two.
In my family tree, middle names only started to show up with any frequency after 1911.
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re Jebber
In "Potty Fartwell and Knob" by Russell Ash p 251 he relates details of the girl given 25 names . Born West Derby Lancashire 19 December 1882 - Ann Bertha Cecilia Diana Emily Fanny Gertrude Hypatia Inaz Jane Kate Louisa Maud Nora Ophelia Quince Rebecca Starkey Teresa Ulysis Venus Winifred Xenophen Yetty Zeus PEPPER.
radstockjeff
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My mum always told me that my brother and I didn't have middle name because she didn't like hers. She more recently told me that the actual reason was that when deciding on names for my brother (who's the oldest) there were disagreements on which grandfather's name to use as the middle one so they went with neither rather than both :D
I always find it strange when siblings don't match with the number of given names. Of my Gran's siblings, she has two names, three of her brothers have one name and one brother has three.
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I thought that a labourer I came across was being pretentious when he married as Herbert Arthur Rothwell Augustus White, but then I found his baptism - and the names matched.
Only single forenames in my part of the family, but both grandfathers had middle names. My paternal grandfather was the first to (nearly) break the row of Christopher followed by Robert. He was Walter Robert.
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I went down to Devon last summer to do some research on my ancestors who lived there, I was amused to find a baptism entry for one of the sisters of my gt gt grandmother, she was given the middle name Trout. :D I bet she kept that one quiet. :-X ;D
Her father was a Mariner, maybe they thought they should continue the sea theme ........
Actually there was a family in the same parish with the surname Trout so presumably they were family friends. Don't think I'd forgive my parents for that one though. ;)
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Actually there was a family in the same parish with the surname Trout so presumably they were family friends.
Or even family, or even very very very good friends if the father was away at sea.....
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How very dare you falcybe? As if any of my ancestors would have children out of wedlock. ;D ;D ;D
Actually, her elder sister was born before her parents were wed, she had two middle names, the first of which was her father's surname of Bell and the second was Gibbs, no idea where that came from. Something to do with the BeeGees perhaps ;) :)
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How very dare you falcybe? As if any of my ancestors would have children out of wedlock. ;D ;D ;D
lol, actually quite a few fellow RCers have found more than just a grain of truth in middle names, including us, so investigate these extra names, they could give you useful leads. ;D
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A couple of her brothers have odd middle names, I haven't been able to track anything down from them. I'll bear in mind that the family probably had a few close friends. ;)
Oh by the way, my great grandfather was illegitimate too, his middle name was his grandfather's Christian name. :o
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I'll bear in mind that the family probably had a few close friends. ;)
Oh by the way, my great grandfather was illegitimate too, his middle name was his grandfather's Christian name. :o
Good luck in your hunting. And which of his three or four grandfathers' name was he given lol? ::)
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His mother's father. Allegedly. ;)
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I was given two Christian names (by the way, it seems more popular to use the term "forenames" or "first names" nowadays, perhaps reflecting the diversity of people's beliefs or lack of belief). The first is the name of my father's sister, a wealthy, thrice married but childless woman. It's a horrible old-fashioned name which I really dislike and I have never been called by it since birth, always being called by my second forename, however when people or institutions use a first name they always assume that your first name is the one you are called by. I was astonished when my new dentist greeted me with "Good morning, H-----". I didn't even know the woman! The same thing happened when I was in hospital and explanations had to be given by me. I told the nurses that if they were trying to resuscitate me calling me H------ they shouldn't be surprised if I didn't respond. I have "trained" my GP now, also my solicitor - these sort of folks never used to use first names when talking to their clients. What's happening?
By the way, I did inherit a good chunk of Auntie H----'s estate, but only by luck, because she crossed my brother out of her will (We split the proceeds later ;)). She changed her will several times towards the end, and her solicitor (who didn't call me by either my first or second forename, incidentally, but gave me my proper title) told me that I was next on the list to be crossed out, but she died suddenly before she could do this!
Slightly off the point, but still talking about names, a school friend had 3 siblings. Her father was rather forgetful, so in order to remember the order in which his children were born he gave them first names of differing lengths - the first had one syllable, the second two, and so on, for example Bill, Derek, Helena and Victoria (not their real names).
Gillg
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Her father was a Mariner, maybe they thought they should continue the sea theme ........
Um ... correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not much of an angler, but isn't a trout a fresh water fish??
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Her father was a Mariner, maybe they thought they should continue the sea theme ........
Um ... correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not much of an angler, but isn't a trout a fresh water fish??
Some trout are freshwater trout, Brown Trout migrate like salmon between fresh and sea water (though not so far).
There are also sea trout often known by other names such as, finnock, herling, peel, sewin, whitling, white trout.
Cheers
Guy
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Slightly off the point, but still talking about names, a school friend had 3 siblings. Her father was rather forgetful, so in order to remember the order in which his children were born he gave them first names of differing lengths - the first had one syllable, the second two, and so on, for example Bill, Derek, Helena and Victoria (not their real names).
Many years ago on the run up to an election, the election literature (including biography of candidates) came through the letterbox. One candidate had a forename beginning with A, his wife's name began with B, he had four children with names beginning with C, D, E and F. I particularly remember because my brother's and my names were the same as two of his children.
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My great grandfather was John, his father was David and John married my great grandmother whose surname was Thomas. Their first born bore the Christian names of John David Thomas.
I have three names and sometimes use them all. My middle name is such that it could be a surname and it leads to some people wanting to make me a hyphenated person.
I would take issue with the statement from Guy that some brown trout (salmo trutta) migrate. I say they don't.
Sewin are brown trout (salmo trutta) which, millennia ago, chose to migrate. Others may argue they are a sea dwelling creature which chose to breed in fresh water. I leave that to the scientists.
There are trout which are known a slob trout. These are brown trout (salmo trutta) which live in brackish estuary water but which, I believe, move upstream into fresh water to breed. They will then move back to brackish water. Not really migration, more like moving house than a full blown emigration to a new country.
Within fresh water dwelling brown trout(salmo trutta) some are river dwellers whilst others are lake dwellers.
All in all a very successful species which we must treasure and preserve at all costs.
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You are welcome to take issue with me but you would also have to take issue with others such as the BBC
"Sea trout are also the same species as the brown trout, but sea trout are migratory, heading out to sea for most of their life and returning to rivers to spawn. "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/Brown_trout
The Animal Diversity Web
If Salmo trutta has access to the sea, it will undergo smoltification, which is taking on a silvery color while migrating to the ocean to reach maturity. The silvery color is acquired while brown trout transition from freshwater to saltwater, if anadromous. Adulthood may be reached in either saltwater or freshwater. Anadromous trout will reach maturity at sea while freshwater stream residents will achieve sexual maturity between 1 to 10 years.
http://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Salmo_trutta/
Ices Journal of Marine Science
Anadromous populations of brown trout (henceforth referred to as sea trout) are subject to infection in the marine stage of their life cycle by the salmon louse (Lepeophtheirus salmonis (Krøyer, 1837)), an external parasitic copepod
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/60/5/1139.full
NCBI
The aim of the paper was to study sea migration, growth and survival of brown trout Salmo trutta of the River Imsa, 1976-2005.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20735583
Cheers
Guy
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Oh for heaven's sake you two, all this because of my throwaway comment "Her father was a Mariner, maybe they thought they should continue the sea theme ........ "
It was meant to be a JOKE!!
Any chance we could get back to the topic now? ::) ::)