RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: linda25g on Tuesday 23 December 14 16:58 GMT (UK)
-
Hi
I've searched and searched but hoping someone might have more ideas
my 4th great grandmother born Mary Bots married John Sadler in Cheshire in 1824, I have them on the 1841 census in Overton and 1851 census in Whitchurch where she gives a birth place of Lancaster in approx 1799, she is stated as single on the marriage record but i can find nothing on her re a baptism
is my only hope a copy of the marriage cert?
Linda
-
The marriage cert is on FindMyPast but you will only get witness names as extra information.
Could you please give the 1841 reference
-
There is a John bots burial in Warrington in 1820, and a couple of Bots births in Daresbury in the mid
1700,s
Daresbury is listed as in Cheshire, Warrington as in Lancaster Lancashire, they are both close together, and not too far from chester.
For no good reason other than guesswork I am looking at the Mary Bott born Warrington 1804?
Mike
-
thank you
the 1841 details are
HO107/1408/10/ 32p 2 Overton Flintshire
I've looked many times at the Mary baptised in Warrington, her birthplace on 1851 census clearly stated Lancaster but she could have been baptised anywhere
-
the 1841 details are
HO107/1408/10/ 32p 2 Overton Flintshire
I can see why I could not see it I thought you meant Overton, Lancaster ;D
-
Sorry Rosie, guilty of thinking local :)
and thanks for the help :)
-
It appears that in the 1700s/1800s a lot of certificates stated Lancaster meaning the county of Lancaster, so these could refer to anywhere in Lancashire.
-
Mary Bott Dau of John Bott & Betty Occup- Weaver. Bapt 19th June 1803 St Elphin Warrington in the County of Lancaster.
This May Help - Steve
-
Thanks for the replies
The Mary born Warrington does seem the only option I just wish I could get more info before I add her
-
The 1851 census is fairly specific: the place of birth is stated as "Lancash. Lancaster"
-
I took it to actually be Lancaster, the Warrington Mary is still possible if she wasn't baptised where she was born but still not enough to be sure
-
There's something wrong here. John Sadler, farmer at Plasynycoed farm at Overton, died in 1848 (3rd April). You can view his Will on the NLW site - it mentions wife Mary, son John, daughter Jane who married John Jones, daughter Martha who married John Jones, daughter Mary Ann, and a son Robert.
So that can't be the same family in Whitchurch in 1851.
http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?skin=profeb&lng=en
-
Marriage of Martha Sadler and John Jones, 17 April 1843 at Wrexham Parish Church. She is the daughter of John Sadler, farmer. Her residence Acton. His residence Overton. He is a carrier, father John Jones, carrier.
She is of full age so must have been born before 17 April 1822. Casts doubt on that 1824 Chester marriage as being the right one for this Sadler family, and thus on Mary Bots being the mother.
-
.....but ..there is this baptism for Martha Botts, daughter of Mary, in Cockshutt (near Ellesmere) in 1823 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NGJQ-YVH
-
Remarriage?
St Mary's Chester, 5th July 1851:
Mary Sadler, widow, father William Bott, farmer, and
John Steen, widower, farmer, father John Steen, farmer.
Address for both: Castle Street
Witnesses Harriet Nield and John ?
-
Possible baptism:
Welshampton, Shropshire, 6 April 1800: Mary Botts, daughter of William and Martha
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JM8G-YZN
1851 census, household of Joseph Lee at Red Brook, Iscoyd:
Mary Sadler, widow, 49, servant born Welshampton, Salop.
1861 census, at Overton
Mary Steen, 61, Head, Fund Holder, Welshampton
Elizabeth Taylor, 18, Daur, mar, Ag Lab's wife, Overton, Flintshire
Mary Eliza Taylor, 1 month, Granddaughter, Overton, Flintshire
Joseph Massey 33 Lodger, Ag Lab, Winston, Cheshire
Regarding daughter Elizabeth:
Elizabeth Sadler born Overton circa 1843 appears on the 1851 census in Ellesmere with sister Mary Ann and brother-in-law Isaac Williams.
-
More register entries at Welshampton:
Marriage September 23rd 1798: William Botts and Martha Barnett both otp
Burial July 10th 1802: Martha wife of Wm Botts
Burial December 5th 1802: Anne daughter of Willm and Martha Botts
-
thank you for all the info, off out now to visit a churchyard for hints :) but will sit and look through all of the above later
Linda
-
The key message is that the 1851 census you were relying on is the wrong family and there is no Lancaster connection. It looks like she came from Welshampton in Shropshire.
-
thank you just looking through now, looks like the marriage may be right (a few of my ancestors from that area have married in Chester)
Martha was born to Mary pre marriage and possibly added to her age for her marriage
interesting that Mary was at the house of Joseph Lee as I am trying to establish a connection to that family for a different branch
Thank you so much, slapping my wrist for adding that 1851 census without a thorough check
Linda
-
Both of Mary's marriages were at St Mary-on-the Hill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Mary%27s_Centre,_Chester
-
Welshampton and Cockshutt only 5 miles apart
massive thanks for this :)
-
I've just been looking back at this after reading John's will in which he mentions a brother Robert, I've also now found Robert's will mentioning Martha daughter of Mary Botts
my problem now is that I took the birthplace of John from the 1871 census (Wrenbury Cheshire) and found the baptism to William and Martha, as that wasn't my John I'm struggling to find a baptism for him anywhere, on the 1841 census his age was given as 55 so he could be 55-59
Linda
-
more searching and I think John and Robert were born to a John and Jane in Ellesmere