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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: northerngas on Sunday 21 December 14 21:40 GMT (UK)

Title: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: northerngas on Sunday 21 December 14 21:40 GMT (UK)
I'm unable to find the Baptism Of Abraham Pilling b abt 1803 Haslingden area - Shown in 1841 Census as living at Gregory Fold Haslingden with wife Martha & Dau Elizabeth & Son William.
I've been looking for years now - Really need to Find his Parents - some Census say born in Haslingden, Newchurch, Rossendale & Bacup. He died aged 69 in 1872.
Would be so grateful if someone could help.
Title: Re: Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 21 December 14 21:53 GMT (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat! ;D

Lancashire Online Parish Clerks (www.lan-opc.org.uk) has 2 potential baptisms:

14th September 1806 at St Chad, Rochdale
Abraham Pilling son of Abraham & Alice

2nd January 1809  at St James, Accrington
Abraham Pilling son of Cottam and Ann
Born 29th November 1808


Remember that adult ages on te 1841 census were (generally) rounded down to a multiple of 5 years! ;D
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: northerngas on Sunday 21 December 14 22:10 GMT (UK)
he died in 1872 so the 1909 baptism is out - thanks for your reply
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 21 December 14 22:14 GMT (UK)
Sorry! I meant 1809!! ;D
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: northerngas on Sunday 21 December 14 22:21 GMT (UK)
thanks ive looked into cottam & ann & that's a no go im afraid - Abraham was def born 1802-1804
I believe his brother was Isaac Pilling. Strange that Abraham didn't have his children baptised either.
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: heatherjulie on Monday 22 December 14 08:55 GMT (UK)
Hi
Is this their marriage?
Marriage: 12 Mar 1829 St James, Haslingden, Lancashire, England
Abraham Pilling - Rawtenstall in this Chapelry
Martha Fletcher - Rawtenstall in this Chapelry
Witness: Thomas Barnes; Joseph Pilling
Married by Banns with consent of parents by: William Grey Minister


Could Joseph be  his brother?

Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: northerngas on Monday 22 December 14 11:39 GMT (UK)
Yes that is the marriage- I don't know who Joseph is - could be a brother or Abraham's father - I just don't know- thanks so much for replying.
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: heatherjulie on Monday 22 December 14 11:58 GMT (UK)
Marriage: 3 Aug 1836 St James, Haslingden, Lancashire, England
Joseph Pilling - Rawtenstall in this Chapelry
Mary Dearden - (X), Rawtenstall in this Chapelry
Witness: John Nuttall; Ellis Bowker
Married by Banns with Consent of Parents by: William Gray Minister
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: BashLad on Monday 22 December 14 13:58 GMT (UK)
Might've had a non-conformist baptism or the parents just couldn't be bothered. It happens.
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: northerngas on Wednesday 31 December 14 14:53 GMT (UK)
Thanks to all replies - still unable to find Parents of Abraham Pilling - a Brickwall now for me. Is there anyone out there who can find his Parents ???
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 31 December 14 15:13 GMT (UK)
Abraham was def born 1802-1804

What is the source of his birth year.  You cannot depend on census as being totally accurate and death records are only as accurate as the knowledge of the informant.

Why do you believe he may have a brother Isaac.
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: cazza59 on Wednesday 31 December 14 15:46 GMT (UK)
I've had one family baptise three children of various ages on the one day.  For some reason, the first two not being baptised at birth  led to incorrect assumptions on my part!

There is a non conformist baptism in the parish of Bury, Forest of Rosendale, Lancashire, of an Abraham to parents Richard and Ann.  This Abraham was born on 15 August 1811 and baptised 2 Sept 1811.

Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Wednesday 31 December 14 17:10 GMT (UK)
Surely "consent of parents" implies that the one - or both - offering themselves up for matrimony would be below the age of legal majority / full age (at the time) - which would have been 21. That's more likely than parents not bothered.....
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: northerngas on Thursday 01 January 15 09:02 GMT (UK)
Abraham Pilling was stated as 35 in 1841 (rounded down from 37 or 38). aged 47 in 1851. aged
58 in 1861. aged 68 in 1871. Died in 1872 aged 69. So I can be pretty sure he was born 1802-1804.  Abraham was a witness at Isaac's marriage in 1826. In the 1851 Census Ashworth Pilling
was a visitor staying with Abraham & Martha - Ashworth was the son of Isaac Pilling= so its almost certain given the dates & ages that Abraham & Isaac were brothers.
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: northerngas on Thursday 01 January 15 09:07 GMT (UK)
I also agree that the main reason for not having children baptised was cost not that they couldn't be bothered, and especially so if they were non conformist.
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: cazza59 on Thursday 01 January 15 09:30 GMT (UK)
There was an Abraham Pilling born to parents Abraham and Alice Pilling in the Parish of Rochdale.  Looks like it reads they are of  Carley Lane.  Baptised on 14 September 1806.



Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: cazza59 on Thursday 01 January 15 09:52 GMT (UK)
That same family had a daughter Ann baptised 21 Feb 1808. 
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 01 January 15 10:39 GMT (UK)
Abraham was a witness at Isaac's marriage in 1826.

There was also an Abraham witness on this marriage, maybe Abraham was the father  :-\
22 Nov 1818 St James, Haslingden, Lancashire, England
James Pilling - This Chapelry
Susanna Haworth - (X), This Chapelry
Witness: Nathan Sutcliffe; Abraham Pilling


Have you followed through the possible Joseph who was witness to Abrahams wedding. He married Mary Dearden in 1836 as posted by heatherjulie.  It looks as though he remarried at St James in 1840 at St James, Haslingden as in 1841 his son by first marriage is with him - I wonder who his father was on the marriage and whether it would give anymore clues.
PILLING   Joseph   
STOTT   Elizabeth Ann   
Haslingden, St James   Preston   CE1/1/313
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: rolnora on Thursday 01 January 15 11:46 GMT (UK)
There was an Abraham Pilling born to parents Abraham and Alice Pilling in the Parish of Rochdale.  Looks like it reads they are of  Carley Lane.  Baptised on 14 September 1806.
I think that this Abraham may have died. There is burial on Lancsopc same address
 Burial: 17 Feb 1807 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Abraham Pilling a child of Abraham Pilling
    Abode: Catley lane
    Occupation: Weavr.
   
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: rolnora on Thursday 01 January 15 12:07 GMT (UK)
Have you followed through the possible Joseph who was witness to Abrahams wedding. He married Mary Dearden in 1836 as posted by heatherjulie.  It looks as though he remarried at St James in 1840 at St James, Haslingden as in 1841 his son by first marriage is with him - I wonder who his father was on the marriage and whether it would give anymore clues.
PILLING   Joseph   
STOTT   Elizabeth Ann   
Haslingden, St James   Preston   CE1/1/313

Joseph gives his father's name as Richard Pilling, occ Wood Grinder
There is a Pilling as a witness but I can't make out his/her name Lo?is
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: cazza59 on Thursday 01 January 15 12:30 GMT (UK)
There was an Abraham Pilling born to parents Abraham and Alice Pilling in the Parish of Rochdale.  Looks like it reads they are of  Carley Lane.  Baptised on 14 September 1806.
I think that this Abraham may have died. There is burial on Lancsopc same address
 Burial: 17 Feb 1807 St Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England
Abraham Pilling a child of Abraham Pilling
    Abode: Catley lane
    Occupation: Weavr.
   

Aw that's disappointing.  Thought that was a pretty good match.  Back to the drawing board!  :)

Caz
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: rolnora on Thursday 01 January 15 12:41 GMT (UK)
I'm just wondering Cazza if the baptism that you found for Abraham with parents Richard/Ann
could be linked to the second marriage of Joseph whose father is also Richard.
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 01 January 15 12:44 GMT (UK)

Joseph gives his father's name as Richard Pilling, occ Wood Grinder
There is a Pilling as a witness but I can't make out his/her name Lo?is

Thank you, I keep forgetting they are online

It is Lord Pilling  :D
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: rolnora on Thursday 01 January 15 12:50 GMT (UK)
Thank's Rosie ;D
I thought at first glance that it was Lord but then looking closer couldn't make my mind up ;D
So we're now searching for a Lord ;D
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 01 January 15 12:57 GMT (UK)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5JY-X9Q

The joys of using surnames as first names  ;D
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: rolnora on Thursday 01 January 15 12:57 GMT (UK)
And I've found one......... Lord Pilling
11 Jan 1820 Betenatall, Lancashire, England
Parents Richard and Ann
 Rossendale, Forest of, Cloughfold Meeting House, Particular Baptist .

Not sure if or how this ties in with Abraham :(

Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: cazza59 on Thursday 01 January 15 12:59 GMT (UK)
That's interesting because their is a marriage for an Abraham Pilling (mis-transcribed as Pillins) to an Alice Lord in Rochdale on 7 November 1799.

Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: cazza59 on Thursday 01 January 15 13:06 GMT (UK)
Of course, that's mostly probably the parents of the Abraham baptised in 1806 of Catley Lane that appears to have died in 1807.  Perhaps their next child was also named Abraham,  but that would mean birth about 1808.

I would tend to be more flexible with birth dates, as I have a 12 year discrepancy between census returns and birth certificate with my Gt, Gt Grandmother.  :-\

Caz



Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: cazza59 on Thursday 01 January 15 13:18 GMT (UK)
I should read my own posts, Abraham and Alice did have another child in 1808, "Ann" as I posted earlier!  ::)

Sadly this child also died Nov 1809.
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: rolnora on Thursday 01 January 15 13:24 GMT (UK)
Just found a baptism for Joseph Pilling birthdate 18 Apr 1815 Baptised 11 June 1815.
Rossendale Forest of Whalley Mill End Wesleyan Chapel (Wesleyan)
Parents Richard and Ann.
So things are now pointing to Abraham and Joseph being brothers.


Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: cazza59 on Thursday 01 January 15 13:39 GMT (UK)
Just want to make sure I'm following,

The non conformist baptism for Abraham I found in 1811 is most likely a brother to Joseph Pilling you found baptised in 1815 with parents also Richard and Ann Pilling. 

This Joseph Pilling had a witness at his wedding named "Lord Pilling",  and "Lord" just happens to be the maiden name of the wife of Abraham and Alice Pilling that married in 1799.

 :D :D :D :D :D


Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: cazza59 on Thursday 01 January 15 13:49 GMT (UK)
Abraham and Alice also had a son baptised 5 August 1804, just want to throw out there the possibility that he was James Abraham Pilling? Grasping at straws I know, but the date is a perfect fit this time.

I'll check for a burial.

Edit:  Looks like James died in 1869, under the name James.  Worth a shot!  :P
Title: Re: Abraham Pilling -Baptism - Can't Find
Post by: cazza59 on Thursday 01 January 15 14:05 GMT (UK)
.