RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Seaton Smithy on Sunday 21 December 14 07:24 GMT (UK)
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This post is related to the following thread, which is still being worked on, honestly!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=657480.0
Subject to the true parentage of my great-grandfather Wilfred Charles “Bob” Everitt, my 3 x great-grandparents are generally accepted as being Luke Everitt (spelling varies) and his wife Catherine Considine. Luke and Catherine were married in Sydney in 1841, and over the next few years moved down through NSW, settling in Albury around 1846. Luke’s origins have been discussed in this thread: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=705926.0
I feel that a good fit our Catherine is the Catherine Considine who arrives on the Elphinstone in 1840. There is a potential problem with that identification as the shipping record for Elphinstone Catherine shows her as coming from Liscannor (misspelled as Liskanagh) in County Clare, Ireland with parents Michael Considine (deceased) and Margaret Mahony and aged 20 suggesting a birth date of 1819/20. The death record for our Catherine in 1900 shows her father as John, mother unknown and age as 78 – the informant was her oldest daughter Mary Ann but those details may be incorrect.
Due to the age on the death record many trees show our Catherine with a birth date of 1822. Some trees name our Catherine’s mother as Bridget McCarthy, but I have no idea where this information comes from. Although not decisive, our Catherine did name one of her daughters Margaret but none Bridget.
Ancestry has linked the marriage and death index records for our Catherine to a Catherine Considine with a birth date about 1823 who arrives on the Sea in 1849 along with a sister Mary and parents listed as Dennis and Mary – but since our Catherine was married in Sydney in 1841 and had children in NSW in 1842, 1844, 1846 and 1848 this seems an unlikely match.
I have been told that our Catherine is believed to have had a sister named Bridget who also came out from Ireland at some stage but that no details were known about her – until just recently:
I have uncovered some family correspondence dated 1901 in which the author identifies themselves as the cousin of Catherine and Luke’s son William Everitt. I know the term “cousin” can mean a wider range of relationships than just first cousin however the contents of the letter indicate there was a close family relationship.
The author of the letter was E Green of Shannonvale, Corowa. This turns out to be Euphemia Green (sometimes incorrectly reported in newspapers as Elizabeth) the widow of William Curran Green and frequent objector to land value assessments. I was told by one of their descendants that William Curran Green and Euphemia Burns married in 1859 in Beechworth and Euphemia was born in NSW in 1839. I have not found a record for this marriage myself.
I did find the birth for Euphemia Byrnes in Sydney in 1839 with parents John and Bridget. There is a marriage for James Byrne (no “s”) and Bridget Considine in 1837 with two corresponding applications for convicts to marry. James Byrne is a convict from Kilkenny who arrives on the Hooghly in 1825 and Bridget Considine is a convict who was convicted in Limerick and arrives on the Andromeda II in 1834. She is born about 1810 and one of the convict records shows place of birth as County Clare. I believe I have found “our” Bridget, the sister of Catherine.
A death record for Bridget Byrne(s)/Burns may give parents names but I have not identified the correct record yet.
The family connection is strengthened by James Byrne being named as one of the sponsors for the baptism of Catherine and Luke’s first child Mary Ann Everitt born in Sydney in 1842. The other sponsor is named as Mary Considine. As yet I haven’t found a likely candidate for a Mary.
Any assistance identifying a Mary Considine in Sydney in 1842 or the death of Bridget Byrne(s)/Burns nee Considine would be greatly appreciated.
Edits: Corrected James Byrne's given name (thanks, Dundee) and date typo (thanks, majm)
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This post is related to the following thread, which is still being worked on, honestly!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=657480.0
Subject to the true parentage of my great-grandfather Wilfred Charles “Bob” Everitt, my 3 x great-grandparents are generally accepted as being Luke Everitt (spelling varies) and his wife Catherine Considine. Luke and Catherine were married in Sydney in 1841, and over the next few years moved down through NSW, settling in Albury around 1846. Luke’s origins have been discussed in this thread: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=705926.0
I feel that a good fit our Catherine is the Catherine Considine who arrives on the Elphinstone in 1840. There is a potential problem with that identification as the shipping record for Elphinstone Catherine shows her as coming from Liscannor (misspelled as Liskanagh) in County Clare, Ireland with parents Michael Considine (deceased) and Margaret Mahony and aged 20 suggesting a birth date of 1919/20. The death record for our Catherine in 1900 shows her father as John, mother unknown and age as 78 – the informant was her oldest daughter Mary Ann but those details may be incorrect.
Due to the age on the death record many trees show our Catherine with a birth date of 1822. Some trees name our Catherine’s mother as Bridget McCarthy, but I have no idea where this information comes from. Although not decisive, our Catherine did name one of her daughters Margaret but none Bridget.
Ancestry has linked the marriage and death index records for our Catherine to a Catherine Considine with a birth date about 1823 who arrives on the Sea in 1849 along with a sister Mary and parents listed as Dennis and Mary – but since our Catherine was married in Sydney in 1841 and had children in NSW in 1842, 1844, 1846 and 1848 this seems an unlikely match.
I have been told that our Catherine is believed to have had a sister named Bridget who also came out from Ireland at some stage but that no details were known about her – until just recently:
I have uncovered some family correspondence dated 1901 in which the author identifies themselves as the cousin of Catherine and Luke’s son William Everitt. I know the term “cousin” can mean a wider range of relationships than just first cousin however the contents of the letter indicate there was a close family relationship.
The author of the letter was E Green of Shannonvale, Corowa. This turns out to be Euphemia Green (sometimes incorrectly reported in newspapers as Elizabeth) the widow of William Curran Green and frequent objector to land value assessments. I was told by one of their descendants that William Curran Green and Euphemia Burns married in 1859 in Beechworth and Euphemia was born in NSW in 1839. I have not found a record for this marriage myself.
I did find the birth for Euphemia Byrnes in Sydney in 1839 with parents John and Bridget. There is a marriage for John Byrne (no “s”) and Bridget Considine in 1837 with two corresponding applications for convicts to marry. John Byrne is a convict from Kilkenny who arrives on the Hooghly in 1825 and Bridget Considine is a convict who was convicted in Limerick and arrives on the Andromeda II in 1834. She is born about 1810 and one of the convict records shows place of birth as County Clare. I believe I have found “our” Bridget, the sister of Catherine.
A death record for Bridget Byrne(s)/Burns may give parents names but I have not identified the correct record yet.
The family connection is strengthened by John Byrne being named as one of the sponsors for the baptism of Catherine and Luke’s first child Mary Ann Everitt born in Sydney in 1842. The other sponsor is named as Mary Considine. As yet I haven’t found a likely candidate for a Mary.
Any assistance identifying a Mary Considine in Sydney in 1842 or the death of Bridget Byrne(s)/Burns nee Considine would be greatly appreciated.
Red writing ..... 1919/20 not possible for the lass to be born after she had died.
Blue writing .... have you asked the various tree owners for their sources?
Purple writing .... Have you found any mention of that 1859 marriage on the birth certs for their children? Or can you deduce the denomination from other sources, to then contact that denomination's local Church officials and ask for the location of the 1859 parish register. If the bride was not yet 21, she would have needed a responsible adult to provide consent on her behalf. That (name of the person giving consent) would have been recorded in the parish register.
Cheers, JM
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Hi JM
Thanks for pointing out the typo with the birth date. I have corrected that now.
Attempts to contact the other tree holders have not yielded satisfactory results.
In relation to the wedding of William and Euphemia I have been given the specific date of 11 May 1859, with the reference of "Certificate No 1 - Catholic Church". At some stage I will follow up with my contact to ascertain their source for the information.
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I did find the birth for Euphemia Byrnes in Sydney in 1839 with parents John and Bridget. There is a marriage for John Byrne (no “s”) and Bridget Considine in 1837 with two corresponding applications for convicts to marry. John Byrne is a convict from Kilkenny who arrives on the Hooghly in 1825 and Bridget Considine is a convict who was convicted in Limerick and arrives on the Andromeda II in 1834.
His name was JAMES not JOHN ;)
Debra :)
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Thanks, Debra.
I was really on fire there.
Added: Suitably embarrassed on that one - silly mistakes like that make it difficult when you are asking people for help.
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I am confused by your statement that you have found the birth for Euphemia. Surely you mean you have found the registration of her baptism? Afterall, civil registration did not commence until March 1856, and so the NSW BDM holds some Early Church Records of baptisms, (and burials and weddings).
So I can see at the online index that the NSW BDM has two 1839 baptismal records for an Euphemia BYRNES, with parents noted as James and Bridget. These are those two 1839 references : Volume 33a, line 447, and Volume 133, line 447. Just because a person is baptised in NSW does not mean they were born in NSW, and just because NSW BDM holds a baptismal record does not mean the baptism occurred in NSW. It may have occurred in NZ, or in one of the South Seas Islands. The clergy were required (until the commencement of civil registrations) as per one of Macquarie’s General Orders of Sept 1810 to transmit records of their burials, baptisms, and marriages to the NSW Chaplains.
Sometimes the clergy’s transmitted records have not survived. Sometimes the clergy recorded a date of birth, as well as a date of baptism. But even when a date of birth was recorded, it is unusual to find the place of birth of the baby noted on the baptismal record.
The other aspect to remember is that it was not unusual for the clergy of any of the denominations to baptise adults. Sometimes the age is noted, but it is quite rare to find that on those Early Church Records held by NSW BDM.
Of course, it may well be that the Euphemia BYRNES, dau of James and Bridget IS your lass, but please do not rely solely on the NSW BDM baptismal record to confirm that as a solid fact.
If James or Bridget died in NSW after the commencement of civil registrations, then the death registrations may well provide the names and then ages of their then living children of their marriage, and perhaps the informant may have been a family member too. (their relationship to the deceased is usually noted on the registration).
Cheers, JM.
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I've just purchased Luke and Catherine's Marriage certificate from the NSW registry, waiting for it to come through, this should give us the information we need on Catherines' parentage.
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I could have saved you some money there. My cousin has had the had the marriage record for some time. It is from a Register of Presbyterian marriages and lists the parties, the minister and the 3 witnesses, but not the parents. Parents' names wouldn't have been required prior to central registrations.
Your post has prompted me to pull out the record and have a look into the witnesses - their names don't immediately mean much.
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I could have saved you some money there. My cousin has had the had the marriage record for some time. It is from a Register of Presbyterian marriages and lists the parties, the minister and the 3 witnesses, but not the parents. Parents' names wouldn't have been required prior to central registrations.
Your post has prompted me to pull out the record and have a look into the witnesses - their names don't immediately mean much.
Ah I see, have only dealt with Victorian registry records previously for the most part, have you seen her death cert. also?
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Catherine's death cert? That gives her father as John and mother Unknown which is why you will see John in other people's trees - however, death records are not always the most reliable source.
The interesting thing would be to find Bridget's death record but I haven't identified the right Bridget Byrne(s) as yet.
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Catherine's death cert? That gives her father as John and mother Unknown which is why you will see John in other people's trees - however, death records are not always the most reliable source.
The interesting thing would be to find Bridget's death record but I haven't identified the right Bridget Byrne(s) as yet.
I'm looking at a registry for the death of one Bridget Byrne in 1904 at St. Leonards, NSW. Parents are listed as being Margaret and John. This might correspond with Catherine's document regarding the Elphinstone, as it lists Margaret as Catherine's mother, but is not too clear on which of whom was the wife of the deceased Michael, it may have been Margaret or Catherine. As we know from the death cert, Catherine's father is listed as John. If this particular record hasn't been looked into, I would suggest we might have to have a go at it.
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Funeral notices here, not much info. 23rd of June 1904. Also some info from Rookwood cemetery.
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I think you'll find that is not the right Bridget. The Bridget buried at Rookwood is buried in the same grave as someone called Peter Byrne aged 61 and has a surviving son named Peter (as well as another called James) so it seems possible to me it is her husband buried with her. That seems to be supported by this notice which has the same names for the sons: http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13578762?searchTerm=%22peter%20byrne%22%20funeral&searchLimits=l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-decade=188 . Note that there is no mention of a daughter Euphemia.
I don't believe this is Bridget Considine who marries James Byrne(s).
There are several deaths for James Byrne(s) and Bridget Byrne(s) on the the NSW BDMs over the years.
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As we know from the death cert, Catherine's father is listed as John.
Death certificates are often unreliable. for example, the death certificate for your own ancestor Thomas James Everitt lists his father as Edward Everitt not Luke Everitt as it should.