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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: judb on Friday 12 December 14 04:51 GMT (UK)
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A recent publication has this statement:
Michael DWYER migrated to Tasmania with his sister in 1828, but returned to Ireland where he married in 1836 or 1837 and emigrated to Victoria in 1841 with his wife Ellen (Ellenore) and 3 children. There is no reference for the source of this statement although it has been part of the family's oral history.
I have good information about Michael, Ellen and their children from the 1850s when they moved from Melbourne where he was a carter. It is this Tasmanian connection that I would like to find.
Michael was born in Tipperary 1802 and married Ellen McCARTHY in Greenane, Tipperary. His death certificate is not helpful giving just "Tipperary, Ireland" as his birthplace and stating that he had been in Victoria for 42 years which fits with the immigration in 1841 (died 1884) but there is no mention of an earlier visit to Australia.
His parents are given as John DWYER, farmer and Mary nee RYAN. I do not believe they ever came to Australia.
There is a convict Michael DWYER of about the same age tried in Tipperary and transported in 1828. However it seems that this man stayed in NSW and two convict records state that he died in Goulburn in 1838 so he's not my ancestor.
I have not been able to find any reference on the Tasmanian LINC site, nor on TROVE. I am not familiar with Tasmanian records so perhaps I haven't looked properly.
I know nothing about the sister at except that family lore says that she did some kind of 'good work' while in Tasmania - teaching or working with the poor or something of that nature :-\ I know nothing at all about his parents (just their names as given on the death certificate) or other siblings. There has never been any suggestion that any others of his immediate family emigrated.
Any clues would be gratefully received.
Judith
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DWYER Michael
Arrival 22 Oct 1841
Port Phillip District (Victoria)
Ship LYSANDER
Port Phillip Pioneers Group ancestral claims.
I'll pm the contact details for the above.
DWYER Michael
Directory 1847
Victoria
The Port Phillip almanac and directory for 1847.
Author/compiler Mouritz, J J.
No way of identifying if these entries are your Michael.
Cando :)
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Thanks, cando.
I've seen the Lysander arrival listed on PROV and also on NSW immigration records, but, as always, the more information the better. I think it's him in the 1856 ER in Little Lonsdale St, occupation listed as 'carter', eligibility to vote through 'freehold'. Wish he'd hung on to that ;D Too many with the same name :( The family lore is that they were in no way penniless immigrants.
I have always admired them immensely for coming to an unknown land, which was only settled 6 years before, across the other side of the world with three small children. I would have thought just getting from Ireland to Plymouth would have been adventure enough. However, it makes a little more sense if he had been to Australia before.
Cheers, Judith
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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dotwells/1847fr.htm
DWYER Michael Labourer
Cando
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I think it's him in the 1856 ER in Little Lonsdale St, occupation listed as 'carter', eligibility to vote through 'freehold'. Wish he'd hung on to that ;D
One of my ancestors owned property in "Swanston-street, adjacent to the river and new bridge". ?Federation Square :P :P. Probably rented not owned. ::) ::)
Cando
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Oh my, what rich people we would be now.................................. :'(
He listed his occupation on the immigration papers as 'labourer' so that may well be him. Thanks :)
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Just bumping this up in hopes that someone may be able to find a reference to his supposed visit to Tasmania, with a sister. :-\
Judith
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Hi,
You mention you have elimiated a convict transported to NSW in 1828 and likely died in 1838, Goulburn. Would that be the Michael DWYER who arrived per the Phoenix in 1828? If so, I think his Certificate of Freedom was issued in 1834, and ref #1023 (16 August 1834), a carpenter. I had wondered if he was the one who died at Goulburn and I had also wondered if he was the one who was father to the baby girl baptised CofE at Lake Macquarie in 1831 ... her father was shown as Michael Dwyer, a carpenter. Baptism is in the Christ Church Cathedral's digitised images :) and of course, I look out my windows here at Nords Wharf to ... Lake Macquarie...
So many Michael Dwyer chaps ... ::)
I have put your chap on my horizon :)
JM
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Well, I should have checked ;D before posting ...
The chap at Goulburn was Roman Catholic, single, tried Tipperary 18 August 1827 housebreaking, life sentence, a coachman. Arrived per Borodino. Died at the hospital, Goulburn 12 June 1838.
https://www.bda-online.org.au/ - an excellent not for profit online organisation, nominal annual fee and regularly uploading.
JM
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I know nothing at all about his parents (just their names as given on the death certificate) or other siblings. There has never been any suggestion that any others of his immediate family emigrated.
I've often wondered if this fellow is a younger brother - has the same parent names and come from Tipperary.
DEATH CERTIFICATE
1882 Deaths in the District of Rushworth in the Colony of Victoria
No: 297 (BDM # 3201)
Died 3rd January 1882, Moora, Shire of Waranga, County of Rodney
PATRICK DWYER, Farmer
Male, 63 years
Cause of Death, Duration: Chronic Diseases of the heart and liver, Three years
Medical attendant, last saw deceased: J C Heily, Surgeon, Rushworth; November 1881
PARENTS: JOHN DWYER, Farmer, MARY Dwyer, formerly RYAN
INFORMANT: MATTHEW DWYER, Son, Moora
Registrar, Henry Hicks, registered 3rd January 1882, Rushworth
Buried: 5th January 1882, Rushworth cemetery
Undertaker: Merchant Coy; Witnesses: Matthew Dwyer, Patrick Linnott?
Born Tipperary Ireland, 35 years in Victoria
Married in Melbourne, aged 25 years, to Ann Lynch.
Issue: Matthew dead; John dead; Mary Ann 32, James 31, John 29, Matthew 27, David 25
:)
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You could well be right so I've started a new thread to see if anyone can shed any light on this Patrick.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=804793.new#new
I've had a cursory look for Patrick and his family but there's not much visible. He's certainly living in the same area as Michael and has the same parent names. Trove doesn't seem to have any mention of his death.
The only Victorian BMD entry.other than the death which you quoted, I could find (quickly!) was a birth for the son.
Victoria 1848 #41933
DWYER, Matthew
Parents: Patrick DWYER Patrick, Anne (Lynche)
I am not seeing any other registrations, cannot even be sure of the death reg's for the children, or for Ann; no marriage registration which is a shame. Victorian BMD index doesn't show the place of registration which could help!
His will leaves all to Ann for her lifetime and then to go to the three sons, with no mention of Mary Ann.
There are some DWYER burials at Rushworth, but frustratingly the dates don't seem to be included although the ones in the same grave are obviously this family, and possibly John is their son
DWYER John Roman Catholic Section 1 Grave 177
DWYER Ann Roman Catholic Section 1 Grave 347
DWYER Patrick Roman Catholic Section 1 Grave 347
DWYER James Roman Catholic Section 1 Grave 347
DWYER Simon Anglican Section 11 Grave 159
DWYER Alfred John Presbyterian Section 2 Grave 64
DWYER Janat Presbyterian Section 2 Grave 66
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Hi :)
Do you have records for where and when Micheal's children where born? I wonder if they might have been born in Tasmania?
Maybe (if kids where born in Tas) the family went from Tas to Victoria rather than back to Ireland and then back to Australia again.
Have you tried Trove for him leaving Tasmania? Might be worth checking around 1841...
Hope this is a help and not a nuisance :)
Marlene
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Michael Dwyer, water carrier, assault case in 1848. Says he's elderly and of Lonsdale Street, Melbourne.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/result?q=%22Michael+Dwyer%22&l-decade=184&l-state=Victoria&l-year=1848
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Thanks, Marlene (your Granny looks very like my Nan)
I do have the records for Michael's older children born in Tipperary, also his marriage in Tipperary so, if this family folk-lore regarding the visit to Tasmania is correct, he must have returned to Ireland.
Many thanks for the TROVE piece about the assault, which I hadn't seen before. As his occupation in 1856 was 'carter' and he owned property in Lonsdale St. it would seem to be the right person.
Judith
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Your welcome :)
I found the Lysander shipping record on Ancestry. Have you got it? Names and ages of Michael and family and all from Tipperary.
Looked but couldn't find anything in Tasmania on Michael.
Cheers,
Marlene
PS my 3 x great grandmother came out on the Lysander in 1841 too. 17 years old from Ireland and by herself .
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Thanks for that also - yes, I've seen the Lysander list. I have such admiration for these emigrants coming so far and to an unknown land. Melbourne was only 6 years old at the time so it must have been pretty primitive.
Do you know if the Lysander called at Ireland. The only information I've been able to find shows it left from Plymouth. I would have thought the Irish would have already quite a journey to get across to England. My family had two little children as well.
Judith
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Have just been looking at the Lysander list again. Appears that the entire lot were bounty immigrants "through the agency of Mr John Marshall of London by Messrs Nicholas James & Co".
My Alice Maguire was only one of many unmarried Irish girls on the ship (at least 60 from a quick scan of the list) being sent out as 'house servant'. There were also a lot of Irish family groups like yours.
I'm guessing that the recruiter went to Ireland and signed up the people there. Afterwards (again guessing) a ship/ferry would've been used to send them all to Plymouth and board the Lysander.
Of course there's a good chance I could be totally wrong of :-\
I wonder if researching the people who organised the bounty immigrants could answer some questions?
Cheers, Marlene