RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: JayKay52 on Sunday 07 December 14 08:03 GMT (UK)
-
Hi, We are trying to find birth details of a Charles James Walker born Middlesex England anywhere between 1830-1831. His parents were William Walker and Rachel Nightingale. We think he came to Australia sometime in the 1845-1855. He married Esther Davidson in Victoria in 1859. His marriage certificate confirms parents and that Charles was 28 at the time and his father was a farmer. So we assume he was born around 1830-1831ish. MC also shows he was born Middlesex. We cannot find anything to confirm his birth. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated as he is my GGgrandfather. Thanks John
-
One for the backburner
There is a marriage for a Rachel Nightingale to William Walker but it is in Cheshire :-\
Rachel Nightingale spinster of Macclesfield
William Walker occ Cotton Spinner of Sutton
Date 11 November 1810
Marriage Place Prestbury, Cheshire
FHL Film Number 1751955
There is also this birth
Charles James Walker
Birth 19 June 1827
Baptism 28 June 1837
Baptism Place Brunswick Wesleyan,Sutton By MacClesfield,Cheshire
Father William Walker occupation Silk Weaver
Mother Ellen Nightingale (daughter of John & Mary) :P
-
Yes and possible family for the above in 1841 living in Sutton - William is a weaver. In later census William born Derbyshire and Rachel born Manchester :-\
William Walker 52
Rachel Walker 55
Hannah Walker 15
Charles Walker 10
Emma Walker 5
Harriett Walker 1
-
Hi Rosie,
Thanks for that info, it all fits with the small exception of Ellen instead of Rachel! Appreciate you taking the time and trouble to look for us.
Hi Kay99, Interesting to read that Rachel had a child at 54??? Harriet 1 in 1851 census. All fits too. Maybe we were thrown a red herring with the Middlesex on the marriage records.
Do either of you know what sort of info is on the marriage certificates in England, we are in Australia. Might just have to purchase the MC to see if it gives us any more information to confirm that we have the right people.
Thank you both for your help, we are most grateful. Cheers John
-
Hi John
Marriage entries in parish registers pre-1837 when civil registration started In England & Wales contain little in the way of genealogical information. Rosie has posted everything there is regarding the bridge and groom.
The only other information that might be useful could be the names of the witnesses.
Dawn
-
The information I posted is what shows on the marriage entry. The witnesses were also showing on other marriages on the page so probably church 'staff'
-
One family tree on Anc. does list Charles Walker b 1828 in Cheshire, the same parents. as being found guilty of burglary on 1 April 1843 in Cheshire.
He was sentenced to 10 year transportation and it said to have arrived in 9 Nov 1846 at Port Phillip, Victoria on the Maitland as a"Parkhurst Boy" http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/park.html http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/park7.html Poor soul only stole a shawl
-
Hi Dawnsh, Thanks that means we might not glean anything extra from the certificate.
Hi Rosie, Thanks for clarifying and letting me know re the Church staff part of it. Great help.
Kay99, We think that the Parkhurst Boy Charles Walker is the one connected to us and we are trying make sure we have it all correct and trying to find confirming documentation. It is the Middlesex on the MC that has thrown us! Everything else points to Cheshire.
Thanks everyone for your continuing help. Cheers John
-
Kay99, Thanks for the links, they are fantastic. Cheers John
-
Is Middlesex cleared stated on that certificate, or could it be something else?
Also - father a farmer?
Just wondered.
-
Hi Chempat,
Certificate clearly shows Middlesex and father farmer.
Thought it might have been Middlewich but it is clearly Middlesex.
Mind you that does not mean that who ever wrote out the cert wrote it correctly.
-
Morning Post 8 April 1843: Peter Mottram 15, Charles Walker, 15, William Gaskell, 10, were found guilty of breaking into the dwelling-house of Matthew Shaw, at Macclesfield during the night of 4 January, and stealing a pair of trousers, a purse containing 9/6 and other articles.
They were tracked to a cabin by the victim who followed the marks of their bare feet in the snow, and found Mottram and Walker putting their clogs on, and with the stolen property on them.
Chester Chronicle 14 April 1843 - Charles Walker and Peter Mottram; transportation for 10 years; Wm Gaskell 6 months imprisonment
-
I agree that the person could have heard Middlewich and written Middlesex.
However, why was the father recorded as a farmer if he were a weaver?
Also, Harriet, age 1 in 1841 is not recorded as the daughter (relationship not specified for 1841), so could easily be a granddaughter.
-
Hi ShaunJ,
That is most interesting news articles. Thank you for finding it for me. There are many who believe that Charles Walker was transported to Australia and I am trying to corroborate it.
Cheers John
-
Hi Chempat,
Yes we saw Harriet in the census and that was one of my questions, was Rachel too old to have a child of 1 so also assumed she was a granddaughter.
We are beginning to think that Charles may have coloured the truth a bit on his marriage certificate, perhaps thinking that he could hide his "travels to Australia" by giving different location of birth and occupation of his father, never for a moment thinking that 100 or so years into the future all would be revealed.
In Australia he is quite a prominent person in local family history as a pioneer of the district in Willow Grove so if this is the correct person, then he made good the error of his ways.
There is another census in 1841 showing a Rachel Walker and a few children including a Charles but no William Walker and some people have noted this family as Charles' family so there is a bit of confusion running rife about him.
We need to find information about him during the period between his arrival in Australia and the marriage in 1859 so will keep looking.
Thanks again for all your help. Cheers John
-
JayKay52,
Are you still trying to confirm whether or not Charles WALKER was a "Parkhurst Boy" transported on the Randolph and married Esther DAVIDSON?
Please let me know and if so as I have a completed Biography for him which you may care to read.
For now,
BAC3
-
Hi BAC3, would love to read your biography! Cheers John
-
Hello John,
Delighted my message reached you.
Before I send you the Biography, and my email is given to you in a separate PM for you confirm your address in reply, we need to clarify which Charles WALKER we are talking about.
The first is the one born in Middlesex. I think you are of the opinion he was transported as an "Exile" via the Randolph, in which case he was sent to NSW, the ship being refused landing rights in Port Phillip, and from there he went to Moreton Bay and worked in the Darling Downs, employed by W. & G. Leslie. The question I ask is why did he migrate to Victoria? It is that question I pose in the Biography too!!
There is another Charles WALKER from Cheshire, also an "Exile", who was transported via the Maitland. He stayed in Victoria and you have dismissed him as being the correct Charles WALKER. Other Ancestry Public Member Trees have chosen him to be Esther DAVIDSON's husband!!!
So we immediately have a genealogical conflict ;D
I think the best possible resolution would be if you could let me have copies of any Certificates you have available, Marriage and Death for instance. I can then analyse them and determine whether or not the details prove where Charles WALKER came from. Either Cheshire or Middlesex. By the way, I have full personal details of both these "Exiles" up to the moment they reach Australia.
Please look for the PERSONAL MESSAGE with my email address.
For the moment,
Tony
-
Hi BAC3/Tony
We are still very confused as to which Charles Walker married Esther Davidson. What we know for sure is that "a" Charles Walker married Esther Davidson.
We have MC which shows Charles James Walker born Middlesex, married Esther Davidson on 10/1/1859. It shows Charles' father being William Walker and mother Rachel maiden name Nightingale. It shows Charles born in Middlesex, England. Occupation for Charles is Farmer and his father's occupation is Farmer.
Death certificate shows he died 10/5/1901, parents unknown - probably because the informant was Charles son in law Arthur Doherty. It also shows that Charles had been in Victoria for 45 years meaning he arrived in 1856 about 3 years before he married, but again the son in law may not have known exactly. Arthur was married to Charles daughter Esther (4th child of Charles).
Children on DC are Rachel 41, Charles James, Mary Ann, Esther, Emma, Martha, Elizabeth 27, William. DC shows wife Esther Davidson.
We have a copy of his will however it does not give much info other than he left everything to Esther his daughter.
Will scan everything and send to you asap.
Would be very interested to read your biography - we are leaning towards it being Maitland Charles and would love to have definitive proof so we can tie up loose ends.
The certificates are extremely difficult to read however we will send them to you.
We are certain of Esther Davidson - she is my GG grandmother on my fathers side.
Cheers John
-
Hello John,
I am going to muddy the waters even more.
The 1841 England Census shows Rachel WALKER, with her children Emma, Robert and Charles, the latter not having an occupation entered, all living in Middlesex. THERE IS NO FATHER! It is hard to decipher the original source but Rachel is either a Widow or of Independent Means. Incidentally, the Parkhurst Prison Register classifies Charles WALKER as a "Labourer"
I shall look forward to the documents and try to match all the bits and pieces together.
For the moment
Tony
-
Hi Tony,
We have seen that census and have not discounted it just couldn't figure out what happened to William - the plot thickens.
Will hopefully scan this afternoon - have to go out just now and send you all we have.
Cheers John