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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: dogsandcat on Friday 05 December 14 00:09 GMT (UK)
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This marriage was supposedly in 1864, in Antrim, N. Ireland. Sophia sometimes called Susannah. He may have John in his name. He was in the army and served in India. They moved around in Scotland a lot and settled in Aberdeen. He died in 1896 there. I also don't have evidence of their births. Thanks for any help. Kathy
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Is the 1864, Antrim information from a child's Scottish birth certificate or another source?
Children of William Flem(m)ing & Susannah Houston-
Helen Maria (1869 Perth) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ7H-K84
Sarah Ann (1870 Stirling) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ7X-DMX
Sarah Jane Emily (1871 Edinburgh) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQW9-MQ1
Do you know what religion the family were? civil registration of Catholic marriages began 1864 but non-Catholic ones from 1845.
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Thank you for the info you provided. I had no record of Sarah Ann. The marriage info I have was from the birth record of daughter Elizabeth, born in Aberdeen in 1866. It notes marriage on July 12 1864 in Belfast. In the birth rec. of daughter Ann Isabella in 1875, also in Aberdeen, the marriage was on March 25 1867 in Old Machar. Military records seem to indicate he was born in parish of Donagheloney in Waringston, County Down around 1837.
In death record, parents are identified as John Fleming and Mary Clark. I have the 1881 and 1891 censuses, and names, dobs and birthplaces seem to match. I don't know the religion. I can't find them in 1871. Kathy
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rootsireland.ie have the following marriages for William Flem[m]ing in 1864
Church Marriage Fleming William 1864 Co. Cork
Church Marriage Fleming William 1864 Co. Derry
Church Marriage Flemming William 1864 Co. Mayo
Civil Marriage Flemming William 1864 Co. Mayo
but no corresponding marriages for a Sophia or Susannah Smith.
Have you checked SP for the 1867 Old Machar marriage? Why would they have given 2 dates? Wonder if the Antrim one was made up for respectability?
Just to clarify for myself :) is it William's death record that states parents John Fleming & Mary Clark? Who was the informant? Can't find any Co Down baptisms for a William or a John Flem[ming] 1836 - 1838.
Josey
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rootsireland.ie have the following marriages for William Flem[m]ing in 1864
...
but no corresponding marriages for a Sophia or Susannah Smith.
Was bride's surname not Houston? (fits with the birth records I posted and OP's original post.
I also couldn't spot a marriage in Ireland but I'd also be concerned about conflicting dates. It's not unusual to have slightly different years but usually the month and day aren't that far apart from each other.
Waringstown is in Donaghcloney civil parish (think it's suffered in the translation). Lots of Co. Down information here so might be worth checking under Fleming-
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/Afrontpage.htm
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Was bride's surname not Houston? (fits with the birth records I posted and OP's original post.
Whoops, sorry didn't follow up your links; surname in OP's title is Smith - that's all I went on.
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Hi. Thanks, everyone for trying to help me. The info on William's parents was in his death record. His wife's name changes all the time. The things holding the info together are the censuses, and her death record in 1900 in Aberdeen. Father Robert Smith, mother Sophia Houston. The Scottish record for the marriage was in Ancestry. She is called Susanah Jane Smith. I have no idea why different names are used at various times. Kathy
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It may, and this only a possibility, be that she was born to unmarried Houston and later took the name of stepfather/mother's partner Smith.
Now to confuse things even further?
Marriage of William Fleming & Susanah Jane Smith (1867 Old Machar, Aberdeenshire)-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTJ3-8XM
Birth of Susannah Jane Fleming (1869), parents William Fleming & Susannah Jane Smith/Shellford-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYGK-QHJ
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Hi. I have had some thoughts along the same lines. I have also seen the name Shellford in my research. The problem is knowing what's fact. Without proof, William and Sophia are as far back as I am able to go. Problem is that two of their daughters (Mary) Elizabeth and Ann Isabella were my great grandmothers.
Kathy
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Sorry but I can't really see the problem here. You have birth records for children of William Fleming and Sophia/Susannah Smith/Houston/Shellford, one of which says the marriage took place in Old Machar and there is a marriage there between William Fleming & Susanah Jane Smith. Surely looking at that marriage to check William's occupation, etc. would help & give you the names of both sets of parents.
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Thanks. You made me realize that altho' I had recorded the marriage date and place, I hadn't looked at the actual document. I have now. It turns out Sophia / Susanah was a widow of a Mr Shelford. I now have both sets of parents. I guess William and Sophia/ Susanah did not marry in Belfast. Maybe Susanah and Henry Shelford did. I have a new puzzle. Thanks everyone.
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A John Fleming married a Sophia Jane Foley in Belfast on 12 July 1864. Is it a possibility that this is a brother of William and that William and Susannah 'adopted' aspects of this for respectability after Elizabeth's birth?
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Getting even more confusing (and interesting) now with gaffy's discovery-
... The marriage info I have was from the birth record of daughter Elizabeth, born in Aberdeen in 1866. It notes marriage on July 12 1864 in Belfast. In the birth rec. of daughter Ann Isabella in 1875, also in Aberdeen, the marriage was on March 25 1867 in Old Machar. ...
A John Fleming married a Sophia Jane Foley in Belfast on 12 July 1864. Is it a possibility that this is a brother of William and that William and Susannah 'adopted' aspects of this for respectability after Elizabeth's birth?
Here's the extract- John Fleming, widower, father called James Fleming-
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG8G-6PL
What were the names of William Fleming's parents on the 1867 Scottish marriage?
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Hi. First of all thanks for continuing to be interested in this mystery. In the 1867 marriage record, William's parents are listed as John Fleming, Labourer, and Mary Clark(deceased). also in the record, altho' the name of the bride is Susanah J. Houston or Shelford, the word 'Jane' is added at the bottom of the entry. I am wondering if the marriage date in Belfast could be a second one for his father. I'll keep digging.
Kathy