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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Ravelin on Wednesday 03 December 14 14:35 GMT (UK)

Title: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Ravelin on Wednesday 03 December 14 14:35 GMT (UK)
Hello

I am trying to find the baptism of my 6x Great Grandmother Mary Small.

She married John Harlow 5th May 1760 at Chislet. She was buried there 5th Oct 1801 age 67.

There are two Mary Small baptisms in Ash 1734 :
Mary Small 9th Mar 1734 dau of Samuel & Mary.
Mary Small 4th Aug 1734 dau of Joseph & Mary.

I am not sure which one is my Mary. Can anyone confirm which one married John Harlow.

Ravelin
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: ray b on Wednesday 03 December 14 18:40 GMT (UK)
hello there are two showing on FindMyPast sorry I do not have access
rayb
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Ravelin on Wednesday 03 December 14 20:22 GMT (UK)
Hello rayb

Thanks for searching Find My Past. They are probably the two Ash baptisms.

Ravelin
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: ray b on Wednesday 03 December 14 22:30 GMT (UK)
hello have you seen the chislet burial record it may say wife of ? there is a site www.wantsumchurches.orgchisletbaptisms the site says email for info
rayb
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Ravelin on Wednesday 03 December 14 22:38 GMT (UK)
Yes i have a copy of Mary's burial.

It states that she was Mary Harlow a widow age 67. Husband John Harlow was buried 8th Jan 1801 at Chislet so it should be the correct burial for Mary.

Ravelin
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: ray b on Wednesday 03 December 14 22:50 GMT (UK)
hello family search genealogies gives parents samuel and mary nash spouse john harlow children mary Margaret Elizabeth john William pleasant and james
Mormon church may have copy of original records
also batch nos of the church
rayb
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Ravelin on Wednesday 03 December 14 23:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the info. The children were all baptised at Chislet. I have copies of those.

I am not sure how the tree on Family Search came to the conclusion that Samuel & Mary were the parents of my Mary when there was another Mary Small baptised in Ash 1734 who could also be John Harlow's wife. Perhaps the person who entered the info on that tree did not know about the other Mary Small 1734 baptism ?

Ravelin

Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Ayashi on Wednesday 03 December 14 23:12 GMT (UK)
Ravelin, out of interest, in the original image of John HARLOW and Mary SMALL's marriage on FindMyPast, there is a marriage above it. One of the witnesses for yours was John FORD and above is the marriage of John FORD to Mary HARLOW, in which John HARLOW was a witness ;)

I'd be disinclined to pay any attention to Family Search family trees, as with any other family tree site. They can be made up of total rubbish.

As for the two Ash Mary's, there is a suspicious burial in 1741 in Ash for a Mary Small... makes one wonder, but no indication which child if either.

The christenings themselves give no other info. My next thought would be to check out other children of the couples to see if any sibling names lend themselves to Mary Small's children.

Samuel and Mary nee NASH (m. 1732):

James 1733
(Mary 1734)
Elizabeth 1736
Samuel 1738
Sarah 1741

Joseph and Mary nee WOODRUFF (m. 1727):

Daniel 1729
Joseph 1731
(Mary 1734)
John 1738
Sarah 1740

Do any of these names appear in John and Mary's children?

I wouldn't be surprised if Joseph and Samuel were brothers though.
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Ravelin on Wednesday 03 December 14 23:34 GMT (UK)
Hello Ayashi. Thanks for your help.

Yes i can see the marriage above John & Mary's in my copy of their marriage. Yes John was a witness also to the other marriage. Good find.

I guess that Mary Small burial 1741 could also be one of the two spouses of Samuel & Joseph also.

The children of John & Mary were named in order : Mary, Margaret, Richard, Elizabeth, John, Mary, William, Pleasant & James. The family of Samuel & Mary fit the names better but they are quite common names though.

Yes i suspect that Joseph & Samuel were brothers or cousins.

Ravelin
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: ray b on Thursday 04 December 14 14:42 GMT (UK)
hello again just looked on genes there are 10 entries for mary small that may match
rayb
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: ray b on Thursday 04 December 14 15:19 GMT (UK)
hello again just looked on genes there are 10 entries for other trees maybe they could help
rayb
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Ravelin on Thursday 04 December 14 19:32 GMT (UK)
Thanks Ray b.

I have been in contact with some of those members on Genes before. That was before the Ash records were available on Find My Past.

The only trees i have seen online have Samuel & Mary as being her parents. I guess they got that info from the Family Search tree without knowing about the Joseph & Mary couple.

Ravelin
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Ayashi on Thursday 04 December 14 19:35 GMT (UK)
I know this again doesn't answer your initial query, but might be relevant to you in other areas:

While looking to see if Samuel or Joseph left wills, I didn't see them but there are:
Daniel SMALL, Ash next Sandwich, probate 1713 (might be the father of Samuel and Joseph)
Elizabeth SMALL, Ash, probate 1734, widow (wife of Daniel iirc)

http://wills.canterbury-cathedral.org/

In terms of using wills, if the potential siblings are each traced, if someone left a will there might be a slight chance of your Mary being named in it (with married name), although often such wills were for immediate family. Sadly, unless the Marys were born in 1733 and christened in 1734, they won't be named on Elizabeth's will as she made it the year before the probate- nevertheless it might be an interesting window into your family at the time.
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Ravelin on Thursday 04 December 14 20:20 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the further help and advice Ayashi.

I have a copy of that Daniel Small Will of 1713 from my visit to the National Archives at Kew. He names in it the following people :
Wife : Ann
Son : Daniel Small
Son : John Small
Son : Richard Lilly
Daughter : Mary Small

I have not seen that Elizabeth Small Will of 1734. I will look at it on my next visit to Kew Archives. Thanks.

Yes that is a very good idea about trying to find potential Will's of Mary's siblings. I shall do that when i next join Find My Past to find possible marriages for them then search for a Will.

There was another Mary Small baptised 8th Aug 1735 dau of Francis & Rebeccha at Ebenezer-Independent, Ramsgate. A Mary Small married at St Lawrence in 1758. A witness was Francis Small. This must be that Mary Small.

Ravelin
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Mike S on Saturday 23 May 15 23:25 BST (UK)
I am researching my SMALL family roots, and am wondering if there is any connection between our two families. I have got back to John Small b1776----?---- who married Jane White b1776 Kingston,Kent. Have been unable to get any further back than this.Have you come across these two in your research?
Title: Re: Mary Small : Baptism 1734 Ash next Sandwich
Post by: Ravelin on Sunday 24 May 15 14:40 BST (UK)
Hello Mike S

No i have not come across your John Small & Jane White.

Because i have only got as far back as my Mary Small born 1734 at Ash and don't know her correct parents yet i have not been able to research her siblings and other Small family connections.

Ravelin