RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: hazel lyon on Tuesday 02 December 14 20:17 GMT (UK)
-
pieter joch appels lived in hull yorkshire in 1918,his son peter john appels born amsterdam 1880 ,married 1900 and died at sea 1918,have spent hours looking on dutch bmd,please any info, I cant find any death in uk,did he return to holland after the war, cant find a name for my gt grandmother
-
I can see the son's marriage date on GenesReunited.com
PETER APPELS
England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Yorkshire
Year
1900
SCULCOATES
(He married Sarah Jane Donison probably (Or Rose Culver) IGI)
Peter Appels appears in the 1911 census for Sculcoates.
There is also a John Appls born in Amsterdam living in Sculcoates in the 1911 census. (IGI)
(I would buy this census return and see whom else is living with them)
and the sons death
PETER APPELS
British nationals died overseas 1818-2005
At sea 1918
Birth Year 1882
Sarah J Apples marries a Thomas M Fletcher in 1918 in Sculcoates, could this be Sarah Jane Donniston remarrying? (IGI)
Unfortunately, at such a recent date you would have to use paid information
The Peter J Appels death in 1967 - city, Lincolnshire, England can be ruled out as the father as he was born in 1906, in Grimsby
-
The death in 1967 below, so too young to be the father of Peter died 1918 but is his son born in Hull Yorkshire c 1905 but I can't find his birth reg yet.
Deaths March 1/4 1967
Peter J Appels age 61 Grimsby 3b/255
This one is probably too young also but I will put it out there anyway.
Pieter Appel of 32 Havenbuurt Marken
Died 1 October 1947 in Port Elizabeth South Africa
Probate Date - 22 Dec 1948
Registry - London, England
Admin to Jaunelze Appel-Boes, widow
Effects 465 pounds 5 shillings and 10 pence
You got Peter (born 1880) father's name from the marriage certificate?
-
I had a look at WieWasWie.nl (Dutch genealogy site) but couldn't find any entries for Pieter Appels?
Are you sure either of them were Dutch, and not Belgian (for example)?
Also, not sure why your thread title mentions Germany and Hungary?
-
Hi Hazel,
From what source do you have that "pieter joch appels lived in hull yorkshire in 1918,"?
A lot of Amsterdam records I think are not on WieWasWie. Only the marriage records.
There is a Pieter Jacob Appel marrying in 1881...
http://www.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/dserve/search_advanced.htm
you can also search here to see a whole bunch of references to ships he worked on, including him being injured in 1910. (search just on "Appels")
-
Yorkshire freebmd has the sons marriage and names the church they were married in:
1900 Peter APELLS Sarah J DONISON St John (Newington) Hull HR/5/190
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/20/95/1209585_ef7c88f8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1209585&usg=__egR2JmIFdt2uDMkZ78_SLZrQP0U=&h=640&w=475&sz=85&hl=en&start=2&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=PgbS8eTtfEl1QM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=102&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dst.%2Bjohn%2527s%2Bnewington%2Bparish%2Bchurch%2Bhull%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26rlz%3D1W1GGLR_en%26tbs%3Disch:1
-
thank you,the name pieter john runs in the family,gt grandf peter john appels married sara jane donison, their son peter john appels moved to grimsby/cleethorpes with my grandma marion appels. his son peter john appels also had a son called peter john appels who is still alive.the wartime roll of honer listing the death at sea in 1918 of peter john appels gives his father my gt gt grandf as pieter jokan appels of warwick st hull,I have spent hours on the dutch bmd, we know a amsterdam and 1880 birth was given at the marrage and the witness was poss peter john appels [ senior] and rose culver.I cant find the 1880 amsterdam birth and the mother,unfortunatly the name peter appels is very numerous,I have found them in tilburg and hungary, we have an unexplained jewish thead in the family and the hungarian appels were jewish i think,please let me know if you find anything
-
hello whiteout, have you found on the 1901/1911 census 2 appels? I have my gt grandf peter john appels and sarah jane and my grandmother marion, brother peter john and other siblings;listed as john and jane apples, I havnt found his father who I am looking for on either of these census I wondered if he had gone back to holland or if he was crew on a boat,if you can can you confirm you have found him
-
I can't say I have found Peter Joch Appel or Peter Jokan Apples in England in any census.
If he did die in England they probably would list him as plain Peter Apples (there is a Peter Appel that died at sea in 1889, born in 1842, another fisherman?).
Yes I can see Marion Appels
Just need to work backwards, somehow
-
This lady:
Sarah Apples on on the 1901 census, living in Yorkshire, East Riding, Sculcoates aged 18 born 1883. She might (Just might) be the sister of Peter Appels born 1882 (or 1880)
Sarah Appell died in 1947 aged 64 at Yorkshire, Leeds (she was born 1883)
Her death certificate could be pretty interesting, it might give more evidence that helps you.
-
There is a researcher for Appels in Amsterdam, I think you can sign up to Geneanet for a free profile so you can talk to him. Maybe he could help, with Pieter Joch Appels and Peter Appels birth in Amsterdam in 1882.
http://en.geneanet.org/profil/jansys/Jan-Sijstermans
-
the sarah apples born 1883 in sculcotes hull is my gt grandmother sarah jane donison ,married 1900 and was preg with first child who was born 1902,peter john appels was at sea when the census was taken,by the next census 1911 they called themselves john and jane as the children were called sarah and peter,marion ,lena and others, later rosy appels, sarah jane goes on to remarry fletcher 2months after death of peter john in 1918 at sea ,after moving to grimsby she remarries again and dies called davidson,the older peter joch appels who I am looking for born between 1850-1860,I havnt seen or been able to get the marrage cert 1900 between pj appels and sarah j donison may show the trade of peter joch appels,I have presumed he was a seaman but that may give a clue where he was born.will phone to try to get
-
Going back to opening post - surely Pieter Joch Appels in Hull, 1918 and the Peter John Appels who died 1918 are actually the same person? Is the Hull 1918 entry from a street directory?
For information purposes, Sculcoates contained/s a large portion of Hull Town.
1. You say you haven't got a copy of Peter Appels and Sarah Jane's marriage certificate how do you know a) his father was named Pieter Joch Appels and (b) that he was born 1880. Have you just surmised this?
2. You can't assume that 'Appels' was the correct spelling of his surname (even though there are some Netherland BMD's in this name). He married as Peter (anglicised version of Pieter) Appels. 'Appels' might just have been an anglicised version of his surname. Other possibilities are Appel and Abels. In fact, regarding the latter:
Johannes Pieter Abels b.4/12/1878 Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands, son of Johannes Pieter Abels and Jacoba Sijmons.
Your grandfather married Sarah Jane as plain Peter Appels but in 1911 (as you've explained) called himself John (bc.1879) and he was Peter J. when he died.
With the Christian names reversed and a birth ca.1879 the birth entry in name of Abels could well be your man.
3. Can you give us the exact wording of what is on the wartime roll of honour? I find it difficult to understand it stating his father lived in Warwick Street, Hull when he appears to have been the only one of his family to come to England pre 1911, and there is no death for his father here. Could Warwick Street have been his own address rather than fathers?
In lieu of anything else coming to light I do think the birth of Johannes Pieter Abels 4/12/1878 Amsterdam (father with same name) is something to consider.
Annette
-
I only have the de ruvigny roll of honer ,my gt grandf born amsterdam may 1881 peter john apples ,spelt apells on his marrage cert,states he was educated in holland so his english might not have clear.lost at sea 20 feb 1917
-
Having read the entry through (although states lost at sea 20/2/1917 searching for record of ship reveals it was lost 20/2/1918) I think 44 Warwick St. Hull was indeed his own address as that is the address given for his wife and children.
Believe his father (and other family members) had remained in Amsterdam.
Sorry I can't help further.
Annette
-
Just a little on the Peter Appels lost at sea 20/Feb/1918
According to the Deaths at Sea returns for April 1918. He was a Fireman aboard the Hull registered vessel HARROGATE official number 132261 when she foundered 80 miles west by south of the Manstaf light (off the coast of Norway) whilst on a voyage Hull for Bergen with a cargo of Coke.
His birthplace was given as Ijmuiden, age 36 and he resided at 64 Warwick Street, Hull.
I have attached a photograph of HARROGATE.
For what its worth. I agree that Pieter Joch Appels in Hull, 1918 and the Peter John Appels who died 1918 were the same person. I believe the person mentioned in the Crew Agreements from Hull History Archive is also the same man. You could try looking at the original crew agreements to ascertain his age. This would prove or otherwise my theory.
-
thought i had found the family in amsterdam,they are in the right place at the right time but they had 3daughters cant see a son
-
all found thank you the name was abels,they came from coburg in prussia