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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: bradelkington on Saturday 29 November 14 21:11 GMT (UK)
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Hi again all, I have another brick wall in my family tree which has been bugging me for around 4 years now, I will try to explain what I already know about the family.
Thomas white who was baptised 27 dec 1796 at st peters Wolverhampton to john and sarah white is my fifth great grandfather, he married Elizabeth Whitehouse 9 june 1817 at st peters wolves, batchelor and spinster a witness was a joseph Blakemore who married a mary whitehouse on 17 july 1815 at st peters, I believe this is her sister.
Thomas white and Elizabeth whitehouse had severeal children starting with George hobbins white in 1818, last child was my fourth great grandfather john white in 1830. Thomas white was a brass founder/caster in 1841 census they was living at temple street Wolverhampton Thomas aged 40 years a brass founder and Elizabeth aged 40 born in county. Then in 1851 Thomas white has a new wife he is living in temple street still aged 53 a brass caster and wife SARAH aged 53 born wednesfield, I cannot find a death for Elizabeth white between 1841 and 1851 or a marriage for Thomas white and this sarah between 1841 and 1851.
Another clue on the family is a marriage I found on freereg
27 December 1841 at st George Wolverhampton
George WHITEHOUSE, occupation a jappaner of st George district, father Thomas whitehouse a BRASSFOUNDER (same as Elizabeth whitehouses husband Thomas white) and to top that off Thomas white is a witness? I cannot find this George whitehouse or his father Thomas the brassfounder in census records?
Thomas white died in 1854 aged 56
please help I would be so happy to crack this
regards dave
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Have you eliminated these two deaths?
Deaths Dec 1847
White Elizabeth Wolverhampton &c 17 283
Deaths Sep 1848
WHITE Elizabeth Wolverhampton 17 238
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I cannot find a death for Elizabeth white between 1841 and 1851
There are 3 in Wolverhampton between 1841/1851 - have you ruled them all out?
Sorry last one was post census, the two groom has listed above :)
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Might be worth looking at these two marriages as well. Maybe they weren't married in 1851 but said they were and then married later.
Marriages Sep 1852
White Thomas Wolverhampton 6b 520 on same page Sarah Bailey
WHITE Thomas Wolverhampton 6b 451 on same page Sarah Lester
Did Sarah and Thomas have any children, if so their birth certificate will give their mother's maiden name?
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Sarah is 53 in 1851 so unlikely they had children. If they did marry in 1852 maybe Elizabeth hadn't died before 1851 census ie was the late 1851 death?
Have we checked Elizabeth isn't on her own somewhere in 1851 just in case he had simply left her?
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the two deaths for 1847 and 1848 I have eliminated the one in 1848 was 25 sept 1848 1 day old, the 1847 was a 2 year old
The 1852 marriage isn't him its to Eleanor weaver occupation a groom, my Thomas white was living in same address in 1851 as what he was in 1841 and his occupation stayed the same from 1818-his death in 1854 :s
I cannot find Elizabeth whitehouse/white in 1851 ether
very confusing
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sorry I appoligise ive just noticed another marriage that you mean in q3 to ethier caroline jukes or sarah lester , maybe I should order it, I cannot find this marriage on freereg or findmy past could it be a registry office marriage?
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interesting ive found a sarah lester in 1841 aged 40 years a widow in Wolverhampton?!! thanks so much hopefully this is the right marriage ! she has a Daniel cresswell aged 15 living with her, theres a marriage of a William lester and sarah cresswell in 1830
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Hopefully we can pair up the couples from that marriage in census to see who belongs to who.
Richard Burgoin is the other groom. If we can find him with a wife Caroline or Sarah it might help.
Richard married Sarah Lester 17 August 1852.
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there's a Richard Burgoine in Willenhall with wife Sarah on 1861
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thanks for finding that for me saves me wasting money on ordering the wrong cert.
could it just be a case of Elizabeth white dying between 1841-51 and not having her death registered? And also Thomas white not actually marrying his new "wife" sarah?
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Just a thought but could Elizabeth have died under Whitehouse name rather than White? :-\
There are 2 of those between 1841/1851 in Wolverhampton district.
Jun 1842
Mar 1846
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That's a good thought, ive checked 1842 on freereg, that one was 59 years old in willenhall, seems abit too old for that year, and I cant find a burial for 1846 q1 maybe that could be her ?!
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Thomas White was my Great Great Grandfather. 1796 to 1852
He had 5 children to my Knowledge
George Hobins White 1818 to 1892 married twice (Elizabeth Cooper) and (Charlotte Hill)
Thomas White 1820
Alfred White 1822
Emma White 1826
John White 1830 who Married Sarah Bannister
You say Thomas died in1854 aged 56 but he died in 1852 aged 56
Could it be that you are just getting the Father and Son mixed up as they are both named Thomas?
Kind regards Eric White your long distant relative
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Hi Eric thanks for your inbox too, I have got his death cert which states 19th December 1854 aged 56 at temple street a brass caster died of disorganised liver, dropsy I can send you a copy if you wish, regards Dave
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Thanks Dave
Sounds like a painful death!
Do you have a Family tree?
What line in the family are you?
I see you must be through John White whilst I am through George Hobins White then his son Walter White
Regards
Eric
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no probs yes ive got a tree on ancestry but I havnt paid for couple of months but I still go on daily and amend the tree etc I use findmypast too. My username is davidbradley1990 on ancestry my tree is private but I can help with any queries etc you may have. Ive been doing family research for 10 years now and ive had over 340 certificates which has cost me a fortune!!
Yes John white baptised 29 august 1830 is my fourth great grandfather, he married 15 august 1848 at st georges church Wolverhampton to sarah wright my fourth great grandmother, they had a child also named John White born 15 nov 1852 at church lane Wolverhampton hes my third great grandfather, he married my Irish third great grandmother ellen boyle in 1875 at st mary and st john catholic church Wolverhampton, they had my great great grandmother kate white in 1885, she married frank spencer in 1908 and had my great grandmother violet spencer in 1908.
I had all the certs/documents etc to prove my link to Thomas white your 2x great and my 5th great grandfather, he was baptised 27th dec 1796 to john and sarah and whats interesting I don't know if you know this but our Thomas white of 1796 he has a sister named mary born 1787 Wolverhampton, she married George bayley HOBBINS in 1811 she died in 1837 aged 50, theres a clear link to your great grandfather named George hobbins white he was named after his aunties husband!
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Dave
I notice that George Bayley Hobbins married Ellen Perrins in November 1837 the same year his wife Mary died.So much for mourning
Eric
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Hi,
Just noticed this post. Thomas White died in 1852/4 and his wife Elizabeth married their lodger - William Cutler - in 1858. Elizabeth (Cutler, formerly White, nee Whitehouse) died in 1867.
William Cutler appears on the 1841 and 1851 Census with Thomas and Elizabeth (although Elizabeth is shown as Sarah on the 1851 Census; clearly a mistake by the enumerator as her age is the same).
William and Elizabeth appear on the 1861 Census together - still at Temple Street.
Hope this puts you out of your misery!
Regards
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Hey thanks for that I did infact discover this not too ling after my last comment in the post and forgot to update rootschat. A witness at the marriage of elizabeth white and william cutler was lydia addison which I found she was nee whitehouse and elizabeths younger sister. The parents were thomas whitehouse a key maker born 1771 Wednesfield and elizabeth smith. They had quite a few children all baptised/born bushbury Wednesfield which in 1851 she gives her birthplace as Wednesfield. Also in 1861 census she lives at 18 temple street ten years later in 1871 her son my fourth great gdad john white was living at that same house. All fits together doesn't it onxe you crack the puzzle. Thanks for postibg though are you related?