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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: Jos, Whitehaven on Thursday 27 November 14 23:11 GMT (UK)

Title: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: Jos, Whitehaven on Thursday 27 November 14 23:11 GMT (UK): Andrew Belton (b. Cleator Moor, 17/04/1882; d. Cape Town South Africa, 02/09/1970)

Can a forum member in South Africa, or access to the relevant records, be able to do a "look up" for the place of burial for someone who died in South Africa in 1970, please? This person's name is Andrew Belton, born at Cleator Moor, Cumberland (G.B.), April 1882 and sometimes referred to as 'Kaid'.

Could there have been an obituary in a South African newspaper at the time of his death or possibly it is traceable in the South African National Archives? As he was baptised a Roman Catholic his funeral and burial may have been made through a Catholic church in Cape Town.

(I posted an earlier request about two of Andrew's elder brothers who died in South Africa around the time of the Boer War for a local history research query. The date of Andrew Belton's death comes from what has been written in the registers of his home parish in Cumberland.

This post is made to assist one of Andrew's relatives who is not sure how to begin a thread on the forum but would like to trace his place of burial if that is possible).

Thanks to anyone who can assist.
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: Nookie on Friday 28 November 14 18:43 GMT (UK): I have been unable to trace anything for Andrew's death at the National Archives, nor has a gravestone been photographed by the members of eggsa.org I could also not find a newspaper obituary for him.

In googling his name I found a site which stated his death was on 2 September 1970. Although his address was c/o the US Consulate in Cape Town did he actually die in Cape Town? If so, would you perhaps know which suburb he lived in? That could possibly narrow down the search for Catholic churches in the area.
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: Jos, Whitehaven on Friday 28 November 14 21:24 GMT (UK): Thanks very much for looking.
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: pampoen on Saturday 29 November 14 09:12 GMT (UK): Would appear he was in trouble with the law in 1907.

DEPOT TAB
SOURCE WLD
TYPE LEER
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 32/1907
PART 1
DESCRIPTION CRIMINAL CASE. REX VERSUS ANDREW BELTON.
STARTING 19070000
ENDING 19070000

Regards Derek
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: pampoen on Saturday 29 November 14 09:16 GMT (UK): I found a panel with some Belton names at this link http://www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=386103

Regards Derek
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: ToonOfLancing on Saturday 19 December 20 22:29 GMT (UK): Quote from: Jos, Whitehaven on Friday 28 November 14 21:24 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much for looking.
Does this help?

https://1drv.ms/u/s!As7Akup6fMYOhItoG2Ih_tF2VD23Eg?e=3wPPX8

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Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 17:22 GMT (UK): A few entries on family search

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPSP-KZDQ

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVY-VWWT?cc=2790463&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQPSP-KZDQ

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/135755116/kaid-andrew-belton
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: Nookie on Tuesday 22 December 20 18:12 GMT (UK): I see that on FS he was born on 17/4/1882 and his death in 1970 (in Africa) comes from the United States Social Security Death Index.
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: Nookie on Tuesday 22 December 20 18:25 GMT (UK): Sorry - posted before finishing ..... I am sure that tombstone is his. Well done Sandra.
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 19:01 GMT (UK): Andrew Belton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Belton

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 19:04 GMT (UK): UK and Ireland, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960 for Andrew Belton - born 1882 and aged 56 years - Departing Liverpool to Montreal Canada - 29 July 1938 on the Andania .
17 Onslow Square London SW 7 - retired.

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 19:10 GMT (UK): Kaid Belton - born 1882 and aged 28 years - soldier - Catholic - Quebec City, Quebec, Canada - 1910 - Dominion -

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2H2L-Z8Q

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 19:19 GMT (UK): Appears on a few passenger lists - in case this is of interest.

Puerto Rico, U.S, Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists -Andrew Belton born 1882 Cleator Moor aged 59 years
Arrival Date 12 Nov 1941 San Juan, Puerto Rico.
Airline or Vessel Borinquen

Arrival Date 28 Mar 1944 - retired army officer. last permanent residence Fez. Morocco
Port of DeparturenCiudad Trujillo-dominican Republic - Port of Arrival New York, New York.
Ship Name Balla.

New York Passenger and Crew List - Andrew Belton - 17 April 1882 Cumberland - aged 76 years
Arrival Date 19 Aug 1958 New York, New York.
Airline PAA - Flight Number 218

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 19:41 GMT (UK): Kaid Belton, English Officer, Leaves Sultan's Army. 24 September 1909

Evening Star Washington, District of Columbia 24 Sep 1909, Fri Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65821202/kaid-belton-english-officer-leaves/

The Journal and Tribune Knoxville, Tennessee 19 Sep 1909, Sun Page 13

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65821363/atrocities-practised-by-soldiers-of/

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 19:48 GMT (UK): The Observer London, Greater London, England 13 Feb 1910, Sun Page 9

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65821846/the-observer/

A Twentieth Century Kingmaker - 15 September 1910

Neodesha Register Neodesha, Kansas 15 Sep 1910, Thu Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65821570/a-twentieth-century-kingmaker-15/

https://dib.cambridge.org/viewFullScreen.do?filename=/app/dib/production/content/html/9780521633314_0570.htm&print=yes

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 19:50 GMT (UK): The Ottawa Citizen Ottawa, Ontario, Canada 14 Mar 1939, Tue Page 23

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65822009/general-kaid-belton-14-march-1939/

New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists - Irene M Belton born 1921 England. Last Address London. - aged 18 years - Southhampton to New York arriving 17 February 1939 on the Aquitania. Also travelling Andrew Belton born Cleator aged 56 years - Retired -

UK Return -Irene Belton born 1921 - aged 18 years

Port of Departure New York to Southampton arriving 7 April 1939
Ports of Voyage New York and Cherbourg
Ship Name Aquitania. Going to 17 Onslow Sq. London NW 7

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 19:53 GMT (UK): The Ottawa Citizen Ottawa, Ontario, Canada 22 Nov 1911, Wed Page 9

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65822249/kaid-belton-hurt-22-november-1911/

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 20:13 GMT (UK): WW2 Draft - Andrew Belton - 17 April 1882 Cleator Moor - Name and address of person who would always know hom was Royal Bank Of Canada 68 Williams Street New York.
Residence Place New York (City)
Military Draft Date 1942 Relationship to Draftee Head - Unemployed.

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 20:18 GMT (UK): Marriage - Andrew Belton - Spouse Surname Babin
Registration Year 1913 Oct-Nov-Dec - West Derby Lancashire
Volume 8b Page 1054

Probate Marie Belton, 42 Heathway Court, West Heath Road, West Hampstead. Middlesex. Died 31 March 1938. Admoin London 9 July to Andrew Belton. Retired Major H M Army. £497 9s.

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 20:50 GMT (UK): Kaid Belton Wed Canadian Girl - 4 December 1913 (with photograph)

The Windsor Star Windsor, Ontario, Canada 4 Dec 1913, Thu Page 13

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65826379/kaid-belton-wed-canadian-girl-4/

The Gazette Montreal, Quebec, Canada 10 Oct 1913, Fri Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65827388/miss-marie-maimie-babin-10-october/

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/kaid-belton-the-king-maker-and-his-bride-mima-babin-a-news-photo/515957882

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 20:54 GMT (UK): Kaid Benton Resigns - 23 October 1912

The Gazette Montreal, Quebec, Canada 23 Oct 1912, Wed Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65826702/kaid-benton-resigns-23-october-1912/

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 22 December 20 21:00 GMT (UK): Kaid Belton Gets Job - 3 February 1912

The Windsor Star Windsor, Ontario, Canada - 3 Feb 1912, Sat Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/65827189/kaid-belton-gets-job-3-february-1912/

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 06 January 21 13:54 GMT (UK): Brother Capt John E Belton - Funeral New York

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/67035130/great-war-vets-honor-british-soldier5/

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/67035161/part-2-5-april-1928/

Times Union Brooklyn, New York 3 Apr 1928, Tue Page 22

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/67035053/capt-j-e-belton-3-april-1928/

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2W1V-73X

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 06 January 21 14:19 GMT (UK): US Veterans Gravesites - James Belton
Death Date 1 Apr 1928
Internment Date 1 Apr 1928 - Internment Place New York.
Cemetery Address 625 Jamaica Avenue Brooklyn , NY 11208
Cemetery: Cypress Hills National Cemetery
Plot Section Os Site 151 - Notes 2nd Lt Us Army

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 06 January 21 14:26 GMT (UK): Canadian Attestation Papers - James Belton -

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/personnel-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=37301

digital File - https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B0634-S035 (26 pages)

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 16:52 GMT (UK): Andrew Belton remarried December 1951

BELTON Andrew SINCOCK Holborn 5c 1695
SINCOCK May E BELTON Holborn 5c 1695

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 16:57 GMT (UK): May Eleanor nee Sincock Belton died 31 July 1954 - Cape Town, Cape Province, South Africa.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJHC-FYHH

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-95DT-34CY?i=2443&cc=1779109&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQJHC-FYHH

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 19:32 GMT (UK): Mary Kathleen Belton born 1904 - died 14/12/1983 Monastery Hospital Maitland South Africa was the third wife of Andrew Belton.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVY-KCJZ?cc=2790463&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQPWT-CN6L

probate - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HW3B-MDMM

Niece of Fr Clayton, Parish Priest of Cleator Cumberland.

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 19:39 GMT (UK): 1871 Nottingham England. Frederick Clayton born 4 August 1869 Nottingham

RG10 Piece 3506 Folio 79 Page 28

James Clayton   37
Sarah Clayton   38
Mary Clayton   11
Frankie James Clayton 9 Died 1937 Staffordshire.
Edward John Clayton   7
Charles W Clayton 5
Frederick Clayton 6
Rose Sheldon   20

The parents James Clayton and Sarah Longman married Nottingham, Nottinghamshire - 1859
7B 9

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DQ1-PL9

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 19:41 GMT (UK): 1881 Huntington Street Nottingham.

RG11 Piece 3353 Folio 125 Page 39

James Clayton   47
Sarah Clayton   48
Mary Clayton   21
Edward J. Clayton 17 Died 15 November 1890
Charles W. Clayton 16
Laura M. Clayton 15
Frederick L. Clayton 11
Lucy J. Clayton   9
Philip J. Clayton   5
Mary Lacey   20

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 19:47 GMT (UK): 1901 census Upton on Severn Malvern Worcestershire.

RG13 Piece 2784 Folio 58 Page 47

Frederick Clayton aged 31 years. Roman Catholic Priest.

1901 Stone Staffordshire

Francis J Clayton. Born 1862. Roman Catholic Priest.

1911 St Dominic's Convent, Station Rd, Stone, Staffs.

Francis James Clayton. Aged 49 years. Catholic Priest

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 19:49 GMT (UK): 1911 census Old Priory Cleator Cumberland. (free index)

RG14 Piece 31509

Francis Scannell   54
Frederick Clayton 41 Clerk - Holy Orders.
Arthur Jordan   33
Isabella Lennon   32
Elizabeth Lennon23
Edith Wood 6
Jane Gellespie   17

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 20:30 GMT (UK): Laura May Clayton (sister of Father Frederick Clayton) married Thomas Mossop - June 1903 - Nottingham - 7b 827

Clayton Laura Mary Nottingham 7b 827
Mossop Thomas Nottingham 7b 827

This is the niece - Mary Kathleen Mossop - Mothers Maiden Name Clayton.
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in North Bierley - Volume 09B Page 205

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2F61-CV8

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 20:33 GMT (UK): Probate for Laura May Mossop - 26 Norfolk Road. Harrogate. Widow. Died 8 September 1935 -
Probate London 28 th October to Mary Kathleen Mossop (spinster) Effects £10, 001 5 s 6 d

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 20:37 GMT (UK): Quite a few listings but this seems to be the last one - West Yorkshire, England, Electoral Registers 1957 - Mary Kathleen Mossop - Harrogate West Yorkshire.
Place of Abode: 83 Green Lane. Harrogate.

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: ToonOfLancing on Friday 08 January 21 20:51 GMT (UK): Quote from: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 19:32 GMT (UK)
Mary Kathleen Belton born 1904 - died 14/12/1983 Monastery Hospital Maitland South Africa was the third wife of Andrew Belton.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSVY-KCJZ?cc=2790463&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQPWT-CN6L

probate - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HW3B-MDMM

Niece of Fr Clayton, Parish Priest of Cleator Cumberland.

Sandra

Thanks Sandra

This is the information I already had - btw, Fr Clayton was always referred to by his chosen name 'Cuthbert' when I was a kid. I'm still stuck on Kathleen's date of birth, and the date/place of her marriage to Kaid Belton.

Regards
Howard

P.S. Fr Clayton is the one on the left
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YVz6skgORII/TwytmFZh9vI/AAAAAAAABKU/0r4rn63s5YI/s1600/Cleator+Benedictines+WW2+Fr+Clayton%252C+Abbot+Mooney%252C+Fr+McCann.jpg
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 21:25 GMT (UK): Your message re the third wife, read:-

She was the niece of Fr Clayton, Parish Priest of Cleator but I can't get a fix on her.

I have given you the fix on her by going through and looking at each member of the Clayton family.
You now have her parents names, her maiden name, her birth place. You would need to purchase her birth certificate for the exact date, I do not do that. There was no UK marriage for the couple.

I believe that BMD records housed in Cape Town from 1895 - 1971 including Western Cape, Northern Cape and Eastern Cape are now open to the public. You would need to pay a researcher to go to the archives and explore the marriage. Sorry I cannot help

Good Luck
Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: ToonOfLancing on Friday 08 January 21 22:02 GMT (UK): Quote from: *Sandra* on Friday 08 January 21 21:25 GMT (UK)
Your message re the third wife, read:-

She was the niece of Fr Clayton, Parish Priest of Cleator but I can't get a fix on her.

I have given you the fix on her by going through and looking at each member of the Clayton family.
You now have her parents names, her maiden name, her birth place. You would need to purchase her birth certificate for the exact date, I do not do that. There was no UK marriage for the couple.

I believe that BMD records housed in Cape Town from 1895 - 1971 including Western Cape, Northern Cape and Eastern Cape are now open to the public. You would need to pay a researcher to go to the archives and explore the marriage. Sorry I cannot help

Good Luck
Sandra

You have been more than helpful and I really appreciate all the information. Your pointers for the way forward are very helpful and, if we can ever shake this current plague, I'll certainly be following them up. It's so frustrating having to work at arms length all the time :-(

Regards
Howard
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: Nookie on Saturday 09 January 21 07:37 GMT (UK): Here is the link to the gravestone of Kaid and Mary Kathleen Belton.

https://www.graves-at-eggsa.org/main.php?g2_itemId=4117005
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 09 January 21 08:02 GMT (UK): Reply 6 Nookie.

Sandra
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: Nookie on Saturday 09 January 21 08:36 GMT (UK): Oops >:(
Title: Re: Finding a grave location in South Africa (1970 death)
Post by: Jos, Whitehaven on Saturday 16 January 21 17:29 GMT (UK): The headstone photograph is a memorial to Mrs May Eleanor Belton (2nd wife) died 1954 and Andrew Belton died 1970.

Mrs Kathleen Belton, died 1983, was Andrew Belton's 3rd wife.

Thanks

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