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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: helen storr on Wednesday 26 November 14 13:25 GMT (UK)
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Hi i have a grandfather Arthur McInnes born (kent uk?) on my dads birth certificate certificate it says he was 41 in 1925 ,but on his death certificate it says he died in 1955 perth western australia.
Mother and father listed as elizabeth and arthur T.but ther is no record of him anywhere can anybody help please.Regards helen
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Hi Helen, and welcome to Rootschat!
If the age given on the birth certificate and death certificate don't line up, that's not unusual.
Do you have the full death certificate? (There should be quite a lot of info on a WA certificate, I think).
Who was his wife? Was she born in Australia?
The next obvious bit of info to track down would be his marriage, if one exists. Because the information there should be given by him directly, it might be more reliable than that on the death certificate.
I don't see an obvious entry for him in WWI in Australia, so perhaps he was in UK forces and came over after the war?
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Hi Helen,
I'm a bit confused with what you have written (not difficult at my age :))
Was it Arthur McInnes who was 41 in 1925 and whose mother and father are listed as Elizabeth and Arthur T?
Thanks
Paula
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Arthur McInnes Male 79 Arthur T Elizabeth 1955
From the online index.
ev
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Arthur McInnes Male 79 Arthur T Elizabeth 1955
From the online index
Index of . . .. What? Birth, marriage death? What are the headings above the different columns you have quoted from?
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Presumably that is the WA index of deaths.
Aged 41 in 1925 gives birthdate c1884.
Aged 79 in 1955 gives birthdate c1876.
So a big range. I wonder what is the basis for his expected birthplace of Kent/UK?
P.S. Welcome Helen from me too :)
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on his death certificate it says he died in 1955 perth western australia.
Mother and father listed as elizabeth and arthur T.
Yes , sorry should have said his age at death was 79.
ev
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Hi everyone thank you all i shall try again.
My father was Keith Mcinnes born 24th feb 1925 in Perth W.A
on his birth cert it reads as follows: Father (my grandfather)Arthur McInnes storekeeper 42 years born Kent England.
Mother (my grandmother :Ellen May Cox born: Oxford, England.
Married 15th jan 1912 london,England.(no listings of this marriage ever taken place)
This is where the problem comes in.On Arthurs death cert it reads that he died 1955 at the age of 79,his Father was Arthur T and mother was Elizabeth.
I dont have the worldwide memembership so i can't check if there is anymore info on his death cert.
I have looked up 1884 and 1876 for arthur worldwide but cant find him,also no marriage listed for Arthur and Ellen may Cox.
I dont think they married in england as my grandmother is listed as being on the Orsover as a single person when she migrated to Perth western Australia.
I hope this explains it better for you all and can help.Kind Regards,Helen
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There is no birth on the indexes for an Arthur McInnes in Kent around 1883. The nearest is an Arthur S in 1881 in Islington, but later censuses show his parents not to be an Arthur and Elizabeth.
Even widening the search to 10 years either way does not produce an Arthur McInnes born in Kent.
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Arthur Stuart McInnes was a WW1 casualty - so we know it's not him! ;D
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There's also not an Ellen May Cox born Oxford or Oxfordshire... hmm.
Ellen May McInnes died in 1964 aged 80 according to the WA bmd indexes - is this her? b. about 1884
You may need to check the information on the death certificates to see if it leads you to any further useful clues, as we're not turning up much right now.
You can order copies of certificate straight from WA:
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/H/how_to_obtain_a_certificate_from_the_index.aspx?uid=3998-7983-9731-6856
Did your father have any siblings? (Please don't name them if they are still living, though). It would be unusual (although not impossible) for them to be married in 1912 but not have any kids until relatively late in life).
What year did Ellen come to Australia? Also, are you sure it's her, not another Ellen Cox, on that ship? It would also be worth looking for an Arthur McInnes (or similar name) on the same ship - perhaps they eloped, but never got around to an official wedding.
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Did your father have any siblings?
I can see that your father had at least one brother who was 12 years older than him.
Birth:
Arthur John MCINNES b. 14 Dec 1913 FREMANTLE #934
Death:
Arthur John MCINNES d. 3 Mar 1993. WX32021 Pte AIF. Father of Robert, Kay and Debra.
Burial:
Arthur John MCINNES bur. 5 Mar 1993 Nungarin Cemetery, WA, Grave/2, Area/ZF General
WW2 Service:
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/Veteran.aspx?serviceId=A&veteranId=766117
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Ellen May McInnes died in 1964 aged 80 according to the WA bmd indexes - is this her? b. about 1884
Arthur & Ellen MCINNES are buried together at KARRAKATTA Cemetery, WA:
Arthur:
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00103596
Ellen:
http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KB00123351
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There is a birth for an Ella May Cox in March quarter 1884, Headington.
(Also a Helen Cox, September quarter 1884 Oxford.)
She looks to be Ellen May Cox and unmarried in 1911
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1911 census
Ellen May Cox
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sorry - sensitive keyboard!
1911 - Ellen May Cox age 27 housemaid born Oxford
at St. Angelo, Clarendon Road, Southsea working for Margaret Madeline Gendeson age 77. Also at address 41 year old cook Susanna Bennett also from Oxfordshire
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Hi everyone thank you so much for your help.yes my gran was born 1884 oxford and died Perth WA and died 1964 at our home as shelived with us from 1964 untill she died.Her mother and father were John Cox and Maria urry.John born in ireland and Maria born Hampshire i only know this as we have a card sent to ellen when her father died.on the 1871 UK cencus Ellen is listed as born in Oxford,the other brothers and sisters born all over the place even 1 in East India as he joined the army in ireland when he was 15 and retired from the army when he was 40.
As far as i can see Ellen May Cox arrived in fremantle W.A 25th Jan 1912 on the Orsova.I also have a Mr &Mrs Mcinnes +1 child arriving in Freo from Adelaide 25th Jan 1912,i dont think these people are them as John Arthur was born Dec 1913.
Hi merlin thank you. You have given me so much info.You have written his name as Arthur John is this correct or as i know its John Arthur,the number you have put after 934 it is that the ref number? i am going to find his birth certificate and order it to see if it gives me any more on his parents. .
Regards Helen
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Yes, that is his birth & registration number on the WA BDM .
Arthur J MCINNES FREMANTLE 934 1913
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
I know they are expensive but considering you need details it would be worth the purchase to see if there are any differences compared to your father's 12 years later.
At least you get the 75yr rule & the cost is $31 instead of $44 :)
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Thanks,thats funny as on my dads birth cert he is listed as john A 11,the 11 i suppose is his age at dads birth.Im sorry but i cant find it on the Aust data base.must be my age eh!.I find this computer business quite hard.
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Or perhaps it means John Arthur the 2nd? "John A II"
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Im sorry but i cant find it on the Aust data base.
I assume you are talking about your father's birth registration?
MCINNIS KEITH Male PERTH 561 1925
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
There is no 'E' in his surname on the registration.
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Thanks,thats funny as on my dads birth cert he is listed as john A 11,the 11 i suppose is his age at dads birth.
That's correct.
Arthur John was born 14 Dec 1913 & Keith was born 24 Feb 1925 so he wasn't 12yo for another 10mths.
Or perhaps it means John Arthur the 2nd? "John A II"
No, it's his age at the time of birth of his younger brother.
Australian birth certificates list the names & ages of previous births & deaths for older siblings.
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Sorry i meant John Arthur McInnes.
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Use the WA BDM online search that I have given you previously:
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
Select > Births
Surname > MCINNES
Given Name > ARTHUR
Year > 1913
And you get this:
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You can print this order form to purchase a copy of his birth certificate:
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A store belonging to Mr A McINNES was rebuilt in 1919 after burning down in 1917.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/70137127
Is this another burning store in 1930?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/31070970
The WA Electoral Roll of 1916 shows Arthur , a storekeeper, and Ellen May McINNES at Bran??y Crt, Torbay.
Did Arthur perform a musical solo for a crowd there in 1915?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/70119552
Search for more little items here
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y
Sue
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Thank you Sue thats fantastic.There all my grandads.He lived at Brassy St,torbay Junction thats south of perth.Wonderful stuff.
helen
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Hi Merlin,
thank you so much.its funny that all the W.A electoral rolls list him as john Arthur.
Helen.
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Hi
I am interested that both father Arthur and son John Arthur were listed on Electoral Rolls as boot makers/repairers from 1937.
I wonder if this was Arthur senior's occupation before his marriage in his earlier life.
However, I do not see an Arthur McINNES in 1901 England as a bootmaker.
Sue
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:)Hi everybody thank you all very much for your help over the past year.i have not got any furthur with Gran and grandad it was driving me potty so i have had a nice break over christmas so i will try again to sort it out.A very happy new Year to you all.regards helen