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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Cher2354 on Tuesday 25 November 14 09:57 GMT (UK)
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Hello I am seeking a lookup request or any information in Alfred RICKMAN born in Fulham November 13th 1887/1888.
Alfred RICKMAN
Born: 13th November 1887/1888
Served in Royal Navy for a period of time, then migrated to the United States estimated 1904.
It is unclear how he immigrated and why there was little contact with his family. He did live on Stanley Road which is now called Michael Road in Fulham? I was told his family was large but unfortunately they lost touch. Unclear why.
Any information you can provide is appreciated.
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There are Royal Navy Service records for an Alfred Rickman b Fulham 13/11/1887. He joined in 1905 and it lists the ships he served on - Cumberland, Boscawen, Lion and Impregnable. He served on the Impregnable until 04/05/1913 which doesn't tie in with the emigration date you have?
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Are you sure he was actually born in Fulham?
Have you seen the 1891?
1891
39 Stanley Rd, Fulham
Frederick Rickman 42 Gas works, bn Fulham
Mary 33 bn Ireland
Matthew 16 Pattern maker apprentice bn Manchester
Alfred 3 bn India British subject
Daniel 1 bn Fulham
Annie Callaghan 21 sister in law Own means bn Ireland
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1901
32 Epirus? Road, Fulham
Frederick Rickman 52 gatekeeper bn Fulham
MAry 43 bn Ireland
Henry 23 Barristers clerk bn Manchester
Alfred 13 bn India
Daniel 11
Mary 9
ALice 7
Charles 5 younger children all bn Fulham
Mary Strona 40 unm visitor bn Ireland
FLorence Strona 23 unm visitor bn India
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Service records definitely say POB Fulham :)
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There are Royal Navy Service records for an Alfred Rickman b Fulham 13/11/1887. He joined in 1905 and it lists the ships he served on - Cumberland, Boscawen, Lion and Impregnable. He served on the Impregnable until 04/05/1913 which doesn't tie in with the emigration date you have?
I'm attaching a photo of the naval record of ships you provided. I appreciate this.
Alfred's birthday was November 13th 1887/1888 and according to this document
You've confirmed the names of the ships. Thank you so much for the names of the ships because I was having a difficult time reading it.
I am not sure that the immigration date is accurate. I have noticed a lot of inaccurate data in this type of research.
http://s13.postimg.org/f95phf1kn/image.jpg
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An online tree gives mother's maiden name as Callaghan.
There is an Alfred Rickman (born c1887 England) in 1930 and 1940 U.S. Census with wife Bella (born Poland) & daughter Mary (age 9, born New York) who gives year of arrival in U.S. as 1905.
This same Alfred Rickman is listed in 1920 as a soldier in U.S. Army & married with arrival in U.S. as 1904. In 1915 he's boarding with a McCarthy family in New York & in 1915 he enlisted in U.S. Army. In all these records birthplace is listed as England.
For the WWII Draft Registration he's living in the Bronx (N.Y.C.) and his birth is listed as 13 Nov.1885 London, England. According to the Scocial Security Death Index he died Jan.1977.
So, why do you think this Alfred Rickman in N.Y. is your relative?
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Because his daughter Mary listed at 9 yrs. is my Grandmother and he did board with a family in New Rochelle at one point. For reasons unknown to me. Mary RICKMAN married my Grandfather Charles, they had one child Carol Anne (Alfred's granddaughter). Carol Anne is my Mother. Alfred resided in the Bronx and died in the Bronx in 1977
An online tree gives mother's maiden name as Callaghan.
There is an Alfred Rickman (born c1887 England) in 1930 and 1940 U.S. Census with wife Bella (born Poland) & daughter Mary (age 9, born New York) who gives year of arrival in U.S. as 1905.
This same Alfred Rickman is listed in 1920 as a soldier in U.S. Army & married with arrival in U.S. as 1904. In 1915 he's boarding with a McCarthy family in New York & in 1915 he enlisted in U.S. Army. In all these records birthplace is listed as England.
For the WWII Draft Registration he's living in the Bronx (N.Y.C.) and his birth is listed as 13 Nov.1885 London, England. According to the Scocial Security Death Index he died Jan.1977.
So, why do you think this Alfred Rickman in N.Y. is your relative?
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Right, so all those records give you a good starting point needed to trace Alfred Rickman's family back to England.
What's listed on Alfred's marriage certificate for date and place of birth and names of both parents?
Also, on his death certificate (although this more prone to errors and missing details)?
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Right, so all those records give you a good starting point needed to trace Alfred Rickman's family back to England.
What's listed on Alfred's marriage certificate for date and place of birth and names of both parents?
Also, on his death certificate (although this more prone to errors and missing details)?
I am confused by inaccurate dates. I have to review the marriage certificate.
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Don't worry too much about dates- they can vary from record to record.
I'm wondering if the marriage certificate will list his father as Arthur ;)
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An online tree gives mother's maiden name as Callaghan.
That links with the Callaghan sister in law on the 1891 census I found, which was the Stanley Street address given in the initial post.
But this might be following the wrong Alfred altogether.
Cher2354- where did you get the Stanley Street address from that you gave in your first post?
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Pending confirmation of details on Alfred Rickman's marriage certificate-
Alfred Rickman, son of Frederick & Mary, born 17 July 1887 Rawal Pindee, India is NOT the Alfred Rickman in New York.
Veteran Affairs records for the New York Alfred Rickman give is details as follows-
born 13 Nov.1888, died 26 Jan.1977
enlisted 9 Dec.1906, discharged 12 Jan.1913
enlisted 9 May 1917, discharged 25 Mar.1919
The birth day and month matches the following record-
Langford St. School (opened 1890): Alfred Rickman, enrolled 10 Dec.1894, 40 Langford Rd., parent or guardian- Arthur, last school- Holy Cross, born 13 Nov.1889.
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Pending confirmation of details on Alfred Rickman's marriage certificate-
Alfred Rickman, son of Frederick & Mary, born 17 July 1887 Rawal Pindee, India is NOT the Alfred Rickman in New York.
Veteran Affairs records for the New York Alfred Rickman give is details as follows-
born 13 Nov.1888, died 26 Jan.1977
enlisted 9 Dec.1906, discharged 12 Jan.1913
enlisted 9 May 1917, discharged 25 Mar.1919
The birth day and month matches the following record-
Langford St. School (opened 1890): Alfred Rickman, enrolled 10 Dec.1894, 40 Langford Rd., parent or guardian- Arthur, last school- Holy Cross, born 13 Nov.1889.
I can confirm death in Jan 1977 and it reads 1888 birth on his grave.
The enlistment of naval services dates are confusing will research further.
Will locate marriage certificate as soon as I locate it.
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Alfred Rickman, son of Frederick & Mary, born 17 July 1887 Rawal Pindee, India is NOT the Alfred Rickman in New York
Thats ruled him out then.
But there seems to be an amalgamation of incorrect info - eg the Stanley Street address quoted in first post. That belongs to the India Alfred, yet is quoted to be where the Alfred we are looking for lived. So - what was the source of that ? Was is found during research (of the wrong Alfred), was it quoted from an (incorrect) online tree who had found the 1891? (very unwise) - OR did it come from independent info about the Correct Alfred (in which case the India Alfred in Stanley St warrants further investigaton).
It is so important to start with proven facts about the correct person and work from there.
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It is so important to start with proven facts about the correct person and work from there.
Yes. The reason I was able to determine the details of the 2 Alfred Rickmans was that I started with U.S. records and traced Alfred back, getting date of birth, etc. :)
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Greatly appreciate your help. Confusion was with British naval records and first locating the actual date of birth. 1886/1887/1888???? The documents need to determine his vitals aren't on hand however, I have seen inaccurate data quite a bit.
I had very little information to begin with.
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You'll need to check his marriage certificate to see what details he gave. Was he married in N.Y.? if so there are spaces on the form for parents' names, etc. which should help finding them in English records.
There might be useful information in naturalization records- such as date & place entered U.S. (as well as name of ship), etc. This would hopefully allow us to find a passenger manifest which will (again hopefully) show details of nearest relative in U.K., contact in U.S., etc.
Exactly what information do you have so far (facts, documents, etc. not information that you've found on someone else's family tree, online, etc.)?
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You'll need to check his marriage certificate to see what details he gave. Was he married in N.Y.? if so there are spaces on the form for parents' names, etc. which should help finding them in English records.
There might be useful information in naturalization records- such as date & place entered U.S. (as well as name of ship), etc. This would hopefully allow us to find a passenger manifest which will (again hopefully) show details of nearest relative in U.K., contact in U.S., etc.
Exactly what information do you have so far (facts, documents, etc. not information that you've found on someone else's family tree, online, etc.)?
I spoke with my 93 year old Grandfather in an effort to help provide more information on Alfred who was his father-in-law. He confirmed that Alfred did not provide an accurate age for military records because he wanted to enlist and serve. He may have been younger than 18 when he arrived in the United States. The required age is 18 in order to enlist. I have evidence to prove this via US military records. It lists his birthday as November 13, 1885?
My Grandfather also informed me he served in the Royal Navy - dates I am unaware of. I did not locate a death certificate and Alfred and Bella's marriage license does not have any information regarding names of his parents.
Birth date November 13th is factual.
His date of death is January 26th, 1977. On his grave it lists DOB as 1888.
He married Bella Dickman on October 29th, 1919 at Saint Valentine's Williamsbridge, Bronx, New York
I am attaching a photograph of him and his wife Bella. Not sure if this helps.
Also including a copy of some documents.
I am going to make an assumption that he may have left home suddenly to migrate to the states for reasons which are not clear. I do believe he had sisters & brothers because my Grandmother did mention there was family in England. Although, contact with this family in the UK was never discussed.
As you can imagine, I am curious if any relatives still remain which are connected to Alfred.
(http://s30.postimg.org/mcups92ox/92458120_ff7e_4dc4_ad3e_610507a0c6ad.jpg)
(http://s30.postimg.org/uv8rabyld/Alfred_Rickman.jpg)
I also pulled this, but the date on the manifest states Dec 1923?
(http://s3.postimg.org/6yekepehv/vessel.jpg)
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The US Department of Veterans' Affairs death file lists him as having been in the Army. His dates of military service were listed as 9 Dec. 1906 to 12 Jan. 1913 and 9 May 1917 to 25 Mar. 1919. An abstract of his military service in New York says he enlisted at Ft. Slocum, New York on 9 May 1917 and was honorably discharged on 25 Mar. 1919. These seem to account for the earlier stretch in the service - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJDR-2ZT8
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJDR-PRS9
I wonder if this naturalization is him - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KFXJ-NB8
If you don't have an actual marriage certificate, you should try to get that, as it typically contains the parents' names. You may be able to get it for free through this service - https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Photoduplication_Services - but move quickly, as they are discontinuing it on Dec. 5.
Another option for getting parents' names, if that doesn't pan out, is ordering his original Social Security application for a fee. http://genealogy.about.com/od/online_records/a/ss5_request.htm