RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: wendyBan on Tuesday 25 November 14 00:25 GMT (UK)
-
I am trying to establish if the Seward family who established the Sadlers Wells Theatre in Cheltenham are my ancestors and wonder if anyone knows any information about them. I know Joseph Seward of Bristol opened the Theatre in 1795 and his son Abraham worked as a scene painter there and then his son Joseph after him. Does anyone know anything more than this about the family or the work they did?
Gemma
-
Do you believe that Joseph, grandson of Joseph, is in your tree, or have you not got back that far?
What definite facts have you got about your ancestor?
-
Thanks for getting back to me chempat,
Yes. my Great Great Great Grandfather is Abraham Seward who married Hannah Jane Ashmore in Birmingham in 1859. Abraham was born in Cheltenham Gloucestershire this I have got from 3 census returns. Abrahams father is Joseph on Abrahams marriage certificate. This I know is definite. I have worked out Joseph is married to Eliza Hester Underwood from earlier census's. in 1841 Abraham is living in Waterloo Place Cheltenham with his parents and siblings. His father here is a painter. By 1851 Joseph and Eliza seem to be living in Elm Street Cheltenham and Josephs occupation is a Plumber and Glazier. Abrahams male siblings in later census's have occupations that vary from Plumbing, Painting and Glazing. I don't know if I am mixing up too separate families here but if I am right then Abrahams father Joseph has a father Abraham who is the son of Joseph who established the Theatre in 1795 but that is not definite. I have found lots of Newspaper cutting on findmypast relating to the Seward family living at Elm Street Cheltenham but cannot yet link the theatre Sewards to my family.
thank you for your time
gemma
-
Hi
A little help.
Joseph Seward is born in Wolverhampton on the 1851 census .I've checked the baptisms for Wolverhampton St Peters and here he is-
Joseph Seward s of Abraham and Mary 1.1.1804
His brother James born 12.9.1801 was baptised the same day.
No other mention of the couple so they must have been on a visit.
Other children at Cheltenham - George 7.8.1796 , Charles 14.6.1807,and John 4.3.1810.
The possible baptism I can find for Abraham is at Bath Abbey 31.1.1773 to a Samuel and ELizabeth.
There may still be a connection to the theatre as The history of Cheltenham
By Thomas Frognall Dibdin gives the founder as Samuel Seward not Joseph.The couple do have a older son Joseph baptised at The Temple Church Bristol 4.11.1770 which is perhaps were confusion arose.
Other children for Samuel and Elizabeth all at Bristol -Isabella 24.8.1777,John 28.5.1775,James 3.9.1780.
Here's a bit from British Listed buildings
Puppet theatre, converted from an house; later used as a theatre, dwelling and eventually a garage. Converted 1795; for Samuel Seward. Red brick in English garden wall bond; extension at front rendered. Slate roof with gabled ends, apex of SE front gable has stone coping. Lateral stack on SW side with brick shaft.
PLAN: Rectangular single-cell plan with stage at NW end of auditorium. Later in the C19 the theatre was extended at the NE side and on the SE front.
EXTERIOR: 1 storey. The SE front is hidden by 2-storey 4-bay rendered range with sash windows without glazing bars [two blind] and two C20 garage at centre; set back behind is the stone-coped gable of the original building. SW side has two blocked cambered arch windows and blocked openings above under eaves. NW gable end has three windows, the centre is a large 16-pane sash flanked by two smaller 8-pane windows.
INTERIOR: Auditorium has plastered walls; slightly raised stage at NW end; short section of dado panelling on NE side; remains of fireplace on SW side. 4-bay collar and tie-beam roof. On original SE former front a stencil-painted sign: 'Sadlers Wells House'.
NOTE: Sadlers Wells Theatre was established in 1795 by Samuel Seward of Bristol as a puppet theatre. The theatre was converted from a dwelling. Seward was a talented actor, a member of Watson's Company, a very successful harlequin, a scene painter of renown and fashioner of automaton figures and marionettes. He ran the theatre with his wife and two sons, who helped paint the scenery. The puppet theatre continued for about thirty years. After Seward's death, it was re-opened in 1831 as the New Clarence Theatre.
SOURCE: Information provided by The Theatres Trust.
Ciderdrinker
-
Hi me again
I've now found a marriage for Samuel Seward and Elizabeth Hart at Bristol 19.11.1761.
This seems to lead to a entry in the Biographical Dictionary of Actors,Actresses and Musicians Vol 13 on Google.
A Mr Seward exhibiting puppets in Moorfields London in the 1740's .By 1765 he seems to be showing in Bristol at the St James fair and there is mention of a J Seward actor in the 1790's and appearing at Cheltenham in 1788.
There is a Will for a Samuel Seward musician on Ancestry for 1834 which may be him but he leaves everything to the sons of his mistress Eliza Jones.
Actually just found his Will on Ancestry and it's not that one but the Samuel Seward 1810/11 trumpeter proven at Bristol.Wife Elizabeth,,sons Samuel,Frederick,Abraham,John and James,daughters Elizabeth ,Mary Ann and Arabella and niece Mary Seward.
Hope that helps
Ciderdrinker
-
wow Thank you ciderdrinker for all your work. so from that I gather that they are the right family. I am going to reread all your work and digest it all. I cant believe what you have found.
thank you
-
hello ciderdrinker
I wondered if I could ask you a few questions about the information you sent me. what source did you get the baptism and marriage dates from. Are the dates you have given me for the children of Abraham and Mary their birth dates or baptisms. I am thrilled with information you found for me thanks so much for your time
Gemma
-
Hello Gemma
The dates for the children are baptisms except for James Seward son of Abraham and Mary where you have both.
Most of the dates do come from Familysearch website but I did look at the microfilms of the originals St Peter's Wolverhampton and a index compiled locally just to check there were no more entries for the couple.
I f you want copies of those two Wills just pm me with your e-mail address and I'll send them along.
I'm assuming that the other one in 1834 is Abraham's brother and Samuel and Elizabeth oldest son.
They definitely match up to the theatre you mentioned.
And I did sneaky look at Find My Past even though I don 't have a subscription and there does seem to be a tie in the a sale for the Theatre lately occupied by Samuel Seward in the Newspaper section.But I'm sure you're already having a good look at that.
There is also a possible marriage licence for Abraham and a Mary Ann Flaningham at ST Martins in the Fields,London 9.5.1795 but I'm not sure that that is your couple .
There's also a baptism for Samuel Seward on Ancestry 21.5.1734 to A Samuel Seward and a wife I can't read as the bindings too tight ,at St Botolphs Bishopsgate London .
This would make him 27 when he met Elizabeth Hart at the St James Fair in Bristol.He and his father probably took the puppet show there to make a little extra money and he met her and fell in love,whisking her off her feet to the bright lights of London before returning to Bristol and Cheltenham perhaps.That also fits nicely with a Mr Seward exhibiting in the 1740's at Moorfields London which would be a bit of stretch for one person.
At the same parish Samuel Senior and his wife Sarah seem to have other children,all baptism dates
Mary 17.11.1726,Elizabeth 9.5.1731,Ann 30.12 1732,and Michael 2.10.1735,buried 5.10.1735.
They married at St Giles Cripplegate 13.1.1725 and her maiden name was Hoare.
Just a thought.
As they are theatre people it's quite likely they moved around the country on tour and would have records of marriage,baptism and burial all around the country.
All for now
Ciderdrinker
-
Thank you again ciderdrinker for your time...Great detecting. Ill have a read through and digest.
gemma
-
I am also researching this Seward family. Joseph Seward (1804-1864) was my 3 x great-grandfather. Let me know if you would like to exchange information.
Pete
-
Hi Pete
Joseph Seward is my 4 times great grandfather would be happy to exchange information. I haven’t done any research for a few years so will have to dig stuff out but would be interested to know what line you come from. I come from Ada-Jane line and Robert stagg.
Gemma
-
Hi Gemma.
My great-great-grandmother Eliza Seward (1834-1914) was the daughter of Joseph Seward (1804-1864) and granddaughter of Abraham Seward (1772-1837), the scene painter. Abraham's father Samuel Seward (c.1737-1810) was a trumpeter, puppeteer, showman and theatre owner.
https://database.theatrestrust.org.uk/resources/theatres/show/1273-new-clarence-theatre (https://database.theatrestrust.org.uk/resources/theatres/show/1273-new-clarence-theatre)
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1381134 (https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1381134)
Eliza married my great-great-grandfather Thomas Clifford in 1857. My great-grandfather George (1861-1943) was their 5th child.
I've only recently established the connection between Eliza's grandfather Abraham and the Seward family of showmen and musicians, and have become fascinated by it. I am thinking I would like to write an article about the family, possibly in the hope of getting it published by Cheltenham Local History Society in their research bulletin.
-
Not sure if anyone is still following this thread, but I wrote an article for Cheltenham Local History Society on the Sewards. If anyone is interested, let me know and I’ll share it.
Pete
-
Hi Pete
I was really excited about your post. The Sewards are my ancestors and I tried to find information about them but wasn’t that successful. I did find a few newspaper adverts but that’s about it. I would really be interested in reading what information you had found out if you would be kind enough to share it.
Gemma
-
Hi peter,
Not sure if you saw my reply but I would love to see the information you have compiled.
Gemma
-
I've only just seen your reply! I hope you're still following this. Trying to attach...
-
Yes I am, thank you so much for posting this. I shall enjoy reading it and will let you know. Thanks again
-
Any problems, let me know. You can get me at peteclifford58@gmail.com
-
Hi all, I have found this thread very interesting and it has opened so much interest as I believe I too am part of this line of descendents. I am very new to this but have traced myself back to Abraham Seward (1829-1900) who was my great great grandfather.
Gemma, if you are still here, my Great Grandfather Frederick W Seward (b1879) was the younger brother of your relative Ada Jane (1869-1900)
I would be really interested to have any information that any of you are able to share that may take me further back in my family tree.
Interestingly my line of the family come from Birmingham but I am now settled in Gloucester and work in Cheltenham so learning that my Great Great Grandfather Abraham was born in Cheltenham has been lovely.