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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: judyjay on Sunday 23 November 14 18:11 GMT (UK)
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Benjamin was a member of my Suffolk UK family. He was born in 1832 and was a seaman which is probably how he ended up in Australia. I have a copy of his will which states he left his estate to three of his cousins back in England so I assume he had no wife or children living. He was a store keeper and died in Coolah in 1880.
I have been searching for an image of what Coolah would have looked like then. I have searched ebay, Trove and google.au but no luck. So I am hoping that Rootschatters may be able to help.
Does anyone have a link to old images of the town?
With thanks
Judy
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LINK to earlier Post.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=490356.9
I would try contacting Mudgee Historical Society also this chap who has done quite a bit of work on heritage houses and buildings n that area. http://johnbroadleyheritage.com/?i=366/about-me
His contact details are on there.
Not a lot of Historical stuff on here but very interesting if you are unfamiliar with the Australian Bush even one of the natives you don't want to come across without seeing first :o
https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort=relevance&text=Coolah%20NSW
Neil
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Neil, Thank you for those links. The Rootschat one is me in an earlier look at Benjamin. I'm revisiting him as I was able to download his will from FindMyPast recently. I've had a quick look at John Broadley's site and will contact him.
I agree with you about the native - one of my pet hates. Spiders and creepy crawlies fine - snakes no!!!
Regards
Judy
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Early photos of Coolah, are scarce. I don't think I have ever seen one.
Coolah is quite off the beaten track and away from the early railways and "main roads" linking the larger towns, and early photographers would have found it neither convenient to go there, nor profitable to do so, compared to places with larger populations and/or gold mines.
There are plenty of old photos of Gulgong. In many ways, Coolah would be quite similar, it is less than a day's ride from Gulgong, and the buildings and general scenary would be similar. But what a lot of the photos of Gulgong depict, is the propensity of miners to waste money, and you would have seen so much of that at Coolah.
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Hi Judy,
Trove has some images of places around Coolah that might be of interest. Type in Coolah and look under pictures, photos, objects.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/
Gerry
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Nothing like local knowledge so I suggest you contact the Coolah Historical Society, Binnia St
Coolah, NSW 2843
As an example, I live in a pretty remote area of Aus and researchers seeking photos of the area would only find a half a dozen or so on the web but our local historical group have many on file from the time the area was settled.
This publication may have photographs from settlement.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/35100820?selectedversion=NBD9281579
Cando
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Your Benjamin Rowe is mentioned here
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13387970
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13387970
This is an excellent book, I've just re-read the three chapters about Coolah and scanned the rest, but it does not appear to mention your relative.
The first inn was established at Coolah in 1848 by James McCubbin. Growth in the area was slow, in 1860 the entire district had a population of 60 people. In the 1870's Coolah was on the droving route from the northwest to the railhead at Singleton. After the railways were extended to Gunnedah and Wellington, this siphoned off most of the long-distance livestock droving and the town went into decline.
The local council was created in 1906. There was more growth following the construction of a railway branch and the consequential viability of wheat farming.
Most of the information in the book comes from the collected recollections of people who were very old in the 1970's - people born in the 1890's. They talk about life they recall in, say, 1915 and things their parent's told them - someone who died in 1880 and left no local descendants is not going to be high on their agenda.
Their idea of "early history" in Coolah, is the childhood reminisensces of a man born in 1899.
The book does mention several other stores and hotels, but none before 1880.
On page 127 there is a photo of the shopfront of Scully the auctioneer, probably about 1910, it's undated.
On page 132 is a photo of the main street in 1904, apparently reproduced from a photo in the "Sydney Mail" of 20 July 1904. And a photo of the Royal Hotel ( quite new in 1904 ) from the same paper.
On page 135 a photo of the main street in 1932.
A couple of photos of the post office and police station and hospital in 1912, both those buildings almost brand new - not there from 1880.
It says that F J Bird, the grandfather of aviatrix Nancy Bird Walton ( 1915-c.2006 ) owned a shop there, which he sold in 1883.
If you want to know what it looked like in 1870, look at the photos of Gulgong, which are extensive online. The flickr account of the NSW state records would be useful to look at.
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13387970
This is an excellent book, I've just re-read the three chapters about Coolah and scanned the rest, but it does not appear to mention your relative.
The link does not refer to a publication ???
Nothing like local knowledge so I suggest you contact the Coolah Historical Society, Binnia St
Coolah, NSW 2843
Cando
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This photo, dated around 1900, is more like what Coolah would have looked like then.
Both these photos of places close to Coolah.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/4667796645/in/set-72157624200116932
https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/4668421270/in/set-72157624200116932
https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/4668421916/in/set-72157624200116932
https://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/4668421398/in/set-72157624200116932
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13387970
This is an excellent book, I've just re-read the three chapters about Coolah and scanned the rest, but it does not appear to mention your relative.
The link does not refer to a publication ???
Nothing like local knowledge so I suggest you contact the Coolah Historical Society, Binnia St
Coolah, NSW 2843
Cando
Sorry, I was referring to your previous link, and selected the wrong bit of blue code
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/35100820?selectedversion=NBD9281579
The book, "Around the Black Stump" by Roy Cameron. Roy Cameron was the shire clerk of Coolah Shire for 40 years, the book was written in collaboration with people from the Coolah Historical Society, don't you think ? Why yes, they are named here, right in the introduction.
If there were any genuine 19th century photos of Coolah in existence, I think he would have used them instead of the very boring more recent photos that he did use.
Coolah only has a newspaper between 1907 and 1918, published, as it happens, by my great-grandmother's brother in law, and of about 500 weekly issues published in that time, none at all survive in any public collection.
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The NSW State Records Office – Deceased Estates INDEX has:
Benjamin ROWE, and the location as COOLAH with DD of 18 Aug 1880.
HOWEVER, in the remarks column of that index it lists the locality as COOYAL.
These are two different locations, about 60 miles apart. (Coolah is north of Cooyal)
According to Google Maps
Cooyal is 32.450563 (south) 149.757047 (east)
Coolah is 31.8333 (south) 149.7167 (east)
Cheers, JM
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You are quite correct, I noticed that too. However, I think that the Coolah location is correct, and the reference to Cooyal is a mistake. It is certainly something you need to consider, though.
Benjamin Rowe was appointed as one of the trustees of the Coolah common, along with three Coolah local bigwigs of the time. The same three, without Rowe, were appointed to a committee to establish a school.
Cooyal is quite close to Mudgee. If that was where he lived, and he died there, his death would surely have been registered at Mudgee, not Coolah. He might have lived at Cooyal, and fallen off his horse, or been bitten by a snake, at Coolah. Or vice versa.
Perhaps the OP can enlighten us as to what his death certificate actually says, and what kind of assets he left in his will.
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..... his death would surely have been registered at Mudgee, not Coolah. .......
Perhaps the OP can enlighten us as to what his death certificate actually says, and what kind of assets he left in his will.
Excuse me please, the towers, BUT I think it best to mention the following: that in fact, the NSW BDM online index does NOT show the death was registered at Coolah. I am happy to be corrected, but as far as I am aware, there was no person appointed to receive bdm registrations at Coolah. The NSW BDM online index shows the death was registered in the BDM district of MUDGEE, and that the death occurred at Mudgee, not at Coolah.
NSW BDM #8219, in 1880, Benjamin ROWE, aged 50, died MUDGEE, registered Mudgee.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
Cheers, JM
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By 1880 Mudgee was a thriving community and boasted a hospital from around the 1840's. So likely if he was in poor health, he may have had a stay in there prior to his death?
Neil
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Just as a point in the period between 1830 and 1900 no deaths are recorded in any name beginning with S* at COOYAL, 5 Only at COOLAH, but over 500 at MUDGEE. So it would be unlikely at either of the first two. I doubt if any place was available at either Coolah or Cooyal prior to around 1895 when some deaths were recorded at Coolah.
Neil
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As far as I am aware, Cooyal never ever had it's own BDM deputy registrar. It was part of the Mudgee BDM district. I am not nearly as sure about Coolah. But I do know the NSW BDM geographical districts were re-distributed in the late 1880s and into the 1890s. Each NSW government department had its own pens that determined their own geographical boundaries, and those pens draw wavy lines, that were revised on whims of ministers, senior officers, and even at local levels. And of course, within the Reg Gen's Office, there were Pastoral Districts, Lands Districts, Civil Parishes/Counties, BDM districts, Land Divisions, etc etc.
Cheers, JM
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That is certainly the case. It was the OP who appeared to claimed that they died at Coolah, and I took that at face value.
Does the OP have the death certificate ? That should state where the person died.
The correct location for deaths at Coolah to be registered, would have actually been Cassilis.
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I was looking for something else, and I came across this interesting grievance on the subject of places for registration.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/155922471
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Hi,
Little bit of info from a notice dated 7th December 1882, page 6521 in the the NSW Gazette under Special Notice Under Property Act.
Property
MDCCCCXXIIL, 1 rood 26&1/2 perches, lot 3, and 1 rood 27 & 3/4 perches, lot 11 at Coolah, parish of Coolah, County of Napier.
Name and residence of applicants
Charles Rowe and Eliza Pyett of Harkstead; and William Rowe of Chelmondiston in the County of Suffolk, England.
Title, how claimed
Devisees under the will of Benjamin Rowe, deceased.
Date up to and inclusive of which caveats may be lodged
11th Jan 1883.
Gerry
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Well I am not quite sure about this, because 1 rood and 27 perches is bit over 1/3 of an acre.
And lot 3 and lot 11 on the 1880's town plan of Coolah are more like 2 acres each, so I am not sure if they are the same thing. Lot 3 has been subdivided and has abou 8 or 9 houses on it.
I made some photos using google street view.
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Section 11 at Coolah today
https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Coolah+NSW+2843/@-31.8270924,149.7068624,3a,75y,208.75h,85.32t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sI18Yuzm731Re28f8kRjoyg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x6b095f81dda64f6b:0x40609b490435f50?hl=en (https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Coolah+NSW+2843/@-31.8270924,149.7068624,3a,75y,208.75h,85.32t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sI18Yuzm731Re28f8kRjoyg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x6b095f81dda64f6b:0x40609b490435f50?hl=en)
Modified to insert link to Google Street view which is Google's prefered method
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Section 3 at Coolah today. Section 3 is the whole of the small city block, between the two streets you can see, running about 70 metres down the street to the left, and about 130 metres down the street to the right. It has about 9 houses on it now, most of which you can't see in this screenshot.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-31.8289968,149.709854,3a,75y,149.31h,89.83t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s33dwssMIzjz9z6BpLo9J3w!2e0?hl=en (https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-31.8289968,149.709854,3a,75y,149.31h,89.83t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s33dwssMIzjz9z6BpLo9J3w!2e0?hl=en)
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Coolah was ” proclaimed a Village under 4th Sec of Act ‘84” (as in 1884 !) as per lpi map which I am looking at online at the moment. The Land and Property website has the digitised map “Plan of Survey of Village of Coolah and Suburban land Parish of Coolah County of Napier" It seems to be an 1880s map and the lot numbers seem to repeat themselves, depending on which street.
So there’s several Lot 1’s and several Lot 11's for example :
Lot 1 being 250 ft x 175 ft is on corner of Queensborough and Henderson Streets.
Lot 1 being 53 ft x 127 ½ ft is on corner of Binnia and Queensborough Streets
Lot 11 being 122 ft x 250 fit is on corner of Binnaway and Charles Streets
Lot 11 being for the school :)
http://images.maps.nsw.gov.au/pixel.htm#
Well I am not quite sure about this, because 1 rood and 27 perches is bit over 1/3 of an acre.
And lot 3 and lot 11 on the 1880's town plan of Coolah are more like 2 acres each, so I am not sure if they are the same thing.
Cheers, JM
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Yes, the big blocks are referenced as sections and are divided into small lots which are around 1 rood 30 perches, which is 7/16 of an acre each.
Which means there are multiple lot 3, and several lot 11's. Not so many 11's, because many of the sections only have lots numbered 1 to 10.
Which makes the reference to lot 3 and 11 as was quoted before, almost useless without being able to identify the section somehow.
The pictures I posed before are of section 3 and section 11. Section 11 has never been subdivided, it it still a block of more than 2 acres.
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The respective lots would have been easily identified by the locals back in 1880s and by the surveyors.
Getting back onto topic, the OP was asking : Benjamin was a member of my Suffolk UK family. He was born in 1832 and was a seaman which is probably how he ended up in Australia. I have a copy of his will which states he left his estate to three of his cousins back in England so I assume he had no wife or children living. He was a store keeper and died in Coolah in 1880.
I have been searching for an image of what Coolah would have looked like then. I have searched ebay, Trove and google.au but no luck. So I am hoping that Rootschatters may be able to help.
Does anyone have a link to old images of the town?
With thanks
Judy
ADDING, the google street view scenes seem to be dated April 2010. Are these copyright images?
Cheers, JM
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I don't see how the surveyor would just "know" which lot 3 it is. First thing they would need to know, what is the DP or section number.
That ad requesting the title transfer, also appears in the SMH of 9 dec 1882. If you look at the following entries for a block at Quirindi, it says, lot 16 of section 10. And the one after that, at Chippendale, says lot 12 of DP 98. That's what it should say. The Coolah one is defective. As it says at the bottom of the ad, go to the Registrar and inspect the diagram.
I have checked the conditions of use of the street images from Google Street View, and changed the previous post to link to the Google Street view website, which is their prefered and authorised method of posting the image, because it enables them to change, update or alter, the image later.
To answer the OP's original question, I have never seen any actual photo of Coolah earlier than 1904. I am also not aware of any extant buildings from the 19th century. The shops and pubs were all rebuilt in a bout of enthusiasm in the early 20th century, quite a while after Rowe died.
The type of buildings that they would have had, changed a lot in the late 19th century in a relatively short space of time. There are many early photos of Gulgong from the 1870s and you can see the sort of crappy buildings they had there. I posted some links before, to photos from the university of newcastle collection, I think, of some photos of pubs in villages near Coolah, believed to have been taken in 1900. And you can see online the two-storey pub rebuilt in 1902 and hardly changed since. So, there was more change in style between 1870 and 1902, than in the 112 years since 1902.
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Coolah was ” proclaimed a Village under 4th Sec of Act ‘84” (as in 1884 !)
Which raises the question of how a man who died in 1880 came to own two of the small subdivision blocks which only came into existence as a result of the plan.
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In 1883, a photographer named Scott, went to Coolah, and poisoned himself.
Probably explains why the other photographers stayed away.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/137086722 (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/137086722)
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Judy I have spoken to a delightful gentleman about the history of Coolah. I have pm'd you his email address so you can contact him directly. He and a local historian will help you. The situation sounds the same as my local area with data held in private collections. There are other publications about Coolah and more are being written as more material comes to hand.
I totally agree with the gentleman .... everything is not on the net. Nothing like local knowledge.
Cheers
Cando
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http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/812537
A few weeks after your relative passes away, Sun Go Sun & Co. announce the establishment of a new branch store at Coolah.
This ad appears 6 times in 6 weeks.
The curious thing is, this "Sun Go Sun & Co", never seem to be mentioned, ever, as having a store somewhere else.
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Thank you all for replies and thoughts. For some reason I did not get notification of all these postings (memo to self - Check Rootschat more often!).
There is a lot to think about and do. Certainly my grandfather never mentioned a great uncle who had gone to Australia. My uncle will be amazed.
Fascinating. Again thank you all so much.
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I do hope that I have not mislead people over his place of death. While the registration details say that the district is Mudgee, his will states that he is a storekeeper of Coolah in the colony of NSW. One of his executors is Alexander McEwen of Mudgee while the other is Archibald Henderson of Coolah. The former and H M Todhunter witnessed the will. Probate was granted on 3rd November 1880 by petition.
I may have made the assumption that he died in Coolah. I have ordered a transcription of his death certificate which may make things clearer when it arrives.
Thank you.
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Dear All
Happy New Year.
I have now received Benjamin's death certificate and probate records. Not really very enlightening.
The death certificate details state that he was a store keeper and had died and was buried at Mudgee, certified by Dr Rowling. The undertaker was Francis Jones of Mudgee. He died from gangrene of the lungs, suffered for six weeks. Maybe he died in hospital? His will was made two and a half weeks before his death.
The probate records state that he was a storekeeper of Coolah. One of his executors Archibald Henderson was also a store keeper in Coolah. Perhaps they were business partners. Henry Mallon Todhunter, Bank Manager of Mudgee witnessed the will. His effects were estimated at £110.
again thank you all for your help and suggestions.