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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: Nadine44 on Wednesday 19 November 14 11:51 GMT (UK)
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Lottie Mullenger of Tivetshall St Margaret, who was working as a kitchen maid at Earlham Hall in 1913, gave birth to a daughter ALICE MURIEL MULLENGER on 7th July 1913 at the Middlesex Hospital in London. This child was known as MURIEL, rather than Alice. Muriel's mother Lottie, died in Scarborough in 1924 when Muriel was almost 12 years old. Does anyone know what happened to MURIEL after her mother's death? Was she perhaps adopted (unofficially) and/or changed her surname, as the only record I have found for Muriel is her birth certificate.
Aged 101 (in 2014) there is the possibility that Muriel might still be alive, and a spinster, which would explain the absence of marriage and death records at the GRO.
Will be grateful for any info ... even rumour or speculation! Thank you. Nadine
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Hi,
There is a possible marriage in Lewisham in 1946:
Alice M Mullenger JunQ 1946 Lewisham 1d 1914 Groom: Albert W Reeves.
Nanny Jan
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Thank you for taking the time to help me with my quest Nanny Jan!
I have obtained the marriage certificate for Alice M Mullenger and Albert Reeves but found this was Alice MAUD Mullenger. The marriage certificate gave her father's name which (disappointingly) confirmed that this was not who I was looking for. Lottie Mullenger was unmarried when she gave birth to MURIEL in 1914 (and also NANCY in 1917) - the names of their fathers are not shown on either birth certificate.
I also found an Alice MAY Mullinger, who married Albert Baker in 1966 ... but alas she was not "my Alice Muriel" either.
Thanks again. Nadine
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what about
Alice Mullinger and Thomas Hinks Jun 1934 Barnsley 9c 540
and
Muriel Mullinger and Victor Burrell Dec 1936 Surrey NW 2a 856
yokel
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Have you checked for deaths for Alice Muriel with birth date 7th July 1913 (also look under Muriel)
If nothing showing then died since 2007, before 1969, or moved abroad or changed name. (Or someone got her birth date wrong).
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Many thanks YOKEL! I have been able to rule out both the HINKS and BURRELL marriages, and, unfortunately, lots more besides which has led me to think that Muriel either never married or married under a surname other than Mullenger (and its variants). If Muriel had married, say, between 1930 and 1940, do you know whether she would have had to provide the registrar/vicar with a copy of her birth certificate or another form of identification?
Thank you too, CHEMPAT .. I have waded through the deaths of Alices, Muriels, As, Ms and variants with dates of birth registered as 7/7/13 and drew a blank. I searched a couple of months & years either side of July 1913 too as, from experience, realise that the person registering a death often has no idea of a persons age (even Muriel's aunt, who registered her sister Lottie's death, got her age wrong by 2 years ... and the sister was only 6 years older than Lottie!).
I have searched probate records; burial and cremation records; the London Gazette on line; www.iAnnounce.co.uk (for deaths, birthday greetings, etc); on line versions of local newspapers for the whole UK in the hope of finding Muriel celebrating her 100th birthday back in July 2013!!
The only thing I am sure about is the fact that my late grandmother really did have a sister called Muriel from whom she had been separated whilst very young - something we had no proof of until earlier this year.
If only we could turn back the clock a few decades ... but that of course would mean we would not yet have access to all this fantastic detailed information at our fingertips!
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You have not explained how you know she was known as Muriel, were there some other documents about her?
Similarly, how do you know that she was not adopted, unofficially, soon after birth?
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My grandmother was Muriel's younger sister and she spoke of having a sister named Muriel. My grandmother was only 6 years old when her mother (Lottie) died and this is when we might assume the sisters were split up - but they may never have met nor ever lived together, we have no way of knowing.
My grandmother, we know, was brought to Leicestershire and raised by a couple who were working with Lottie when she died suddenly at the age of 32.
We do not know whether Muriel was adopted soon after birth but in the past couple of days have found a press report in The Lancashire Daily Post dated 17th June 1930 under the heading 'Girl Bather Robbed' part of it reads " ... Miss Muriel Mullinger, a German girl, of Draycott-avenue, Sloane-square, had her hand-bag rifled and the sum of 17s 6d stolen from it..."
This happened whilst she was bathing in the Serpentine in Hyde Park. It is a mystery why an event in London would be reported in a Lancashire newspaper.
We are now wondering whether Muriel might have been 'adopted' by a German couple at birth and brought up as German - but retained the surname she had at birth (which was actually Mullenger with an e, rather than Mullinger with an i).
Of course, we do not know that the Muriel Mullinger mentioned was "our" Muriel but given the lack of UK evidence unearthed so far, it's got to be worth following up. If anyone knows how I might go about trying to find Muriel in Germany I'd be grateful for any help. (I have already checked overseas BMD's registered with the GRO).
Nadine
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Draycott Avenue does show on the ER's in 1930 - but if the family were German they would not?
Anything else in the newspaper report to suggest why it was in a Northern newspaper - or did they report on other minor London events?
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Thank you Pat.
I had a look through the ERs ... and was very surprised to find there were two families with German (or German-sounding) names in Draycott Avenue in 1930; LENTZ at No. 55 and DE WALTERSTORFF at No. 21 ... there was no-one called Mullenger/Mullinger though.
I hope to have a little time over the Christmas period to see if there were other London events reported in the Lancashire Daily Post or whether the 'Girl Bather Robbed' was a one-off, in which case there must have been a reason why it was reported in a Northern newspaper.
I have taken your advice and put a (fairly basic) tree on Ancestry and wait to see whether anyone shows any interest.
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Well, it's been quite a journey!
I went over all the info I had collated with a fine tooth comb and took the plunge and ordered the marriage certificate for Muriel and Mr. Burrell (a marriage that I had previously ruled out). Well, it turns our that 'my' Muriel did indeed marry one Victor Julian BURRELL in 1936. They later divorced and Muriel married Albert Charles CRUTTENDEN in 1946.
This is where I have hit a brick wall; when Muriel married her final husband Cyril Frederick James SMITH in 1975, her surname was HOWARTH. I can find no record of Muriel (Alice Muriel Cruttenden as her name would have been) marrying a Mr HOWARTH.
The 1939 Register records Muriel with all five of her surnames; MULLENGER, BURRELL, CRUTTENDEN, HOWARTH and SMITH. I have certificates that prove beyond any doubt that all marriages involve 'my' Muriel, with the exception of Howarth as that certificate has yet to be found)
At the time of her (fourth) marriage to CFJ SMITH in Exmouth, Devon in 1975 Muriel described herself as a widow, Both Muriel and CFJ Smith were living (separately, not together) in Exmouth at the time of their marriage.
At the time of her death (in Exeter, Devon) in April 1980, Muriel's usual address, as show on her death certificate, was Des Salines, MAJORCA.
Given this overseas connection, I wondered whether Muriel married Mr Howarth in another country, but my exhaustive enquiries and trawls through info on the www, Ancestry, FindMyPast, etc have revealed NOTHING!!!
If anyone can shed any light on Muriel's marriage to Mr Howarth (or has any info on any of her marriages), I'd love to hear.
N/17-12-2018
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Any children from any of the marriages? A will?
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You probably already know this, but it looks as though her second husband Albert Charles Cruttenden (b 1901) died in Hastings on 1 July 1969.
Home address at the time: 46 Hughenden Rd, Hastings.
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Have you managed to search any ER's in Exmouth in e.g. 1974, 1973, 1972, for evidence of Mr Howarth?
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You probably already know this, but it looks as though her second husband Albert Charles Cruttenden (b 1901) died in Hastings on 1 July 1969.
Home address at the time: 46 Hughenden Rd, Hastings.
Yes - thanks anyway for the info. I sent for ACC's death certificate but found the informant was not Muriel but his daughter from his first marriage who died some years ago.
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Have you managed to search any ER's in Exmouth in e.g. 1974, 1973, 1972, for evidence of Mr Howarth?
Hello again Chempat. Thanks for your input.
So far as I can tell, Muriel had no children with any of her husbands, nor unfortunately did she leave a will. I purchased a copy of a will for a lady of the same name (Alice Muriel Smith) who happened to die in Devon around the same time, but the will proved that this lady was certainly not related to me!
Interestingly, Muriel's death certificate states her occupation as "Retired Proprietress - Television Rental"
Kelly's Directory for Bournemouth/Poole 1973-74 lists a Television Rental firm "Howarth, Cyril & Son Ltd, 251 Holdenhurst Road.
and also Mrs A M Howarth, 161 Lower Blandford Road, Broadstone, Dorset
There is a 1976 Telephone Directory entry for Mrs M Howarth, 60 Westcliff road, Bournemouth.
I have found many references to persons with the surname Howarth, but nothing showing Muriel Howarth living with a Mr Howarth!
I shall keep digging as and when i have teh time!
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I'd missed the "tick" on this thread and was having a look.
The most obvious "high grade" data is the exact date of birth for our target.
The only resources searchable by this are (recent) death registrations, and the 1939 register.
I searched 1939, and there are only 8 Muriels with that DOB. Easy!
But then I realised that the 1939 wasn't available when this thread started...
But quite instructive on how wonderful present-day resources are.
BugBear
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As I'm still searching for evidence of the marriage of Muriel and Mr Howarth, I thought I'd re-post in the hope that someone, somewhere, may know something! Thank you for reading this. N/26-1-2020
Well, it's been quite a journey!
I went over all the info I had collated with a fine tooth comb and took the plunge and ordered the marriage certificate for Muriel and Mr. Burrell (a marriage that I had previously ruled out). Well, it turns our that 'my' Muriel did indeed marry one Victor Julian BURRELL in 1936. They later divorced and Muriel married Albert Charles CRUTTENDEN in 1946.
This is where I have hit a brick wall; when Muriel married her final husband Cyril Frederick James SMITH in 1975, her surname was HOWARTH. I can find no record of Muriel (Alice Muriel Cruttenden as her name would have been) marrying a Mr HOWARTH.
The 1939 Register records Muriel with all five of her surnames; MULLENGER, BURRELL, CRUTTENDEN, HOWARTH and SMITH. I have certificates that prove beyond any doubt that all marriages involve 'my' Muriel, with the exception of Howarth as that certificate has yet to be found)
At the time of her (fourth) marriage to CFJ SMITH in Exmouth, Devon in 1975 Muriel described herself as a widow, Both Muriel and CFJ Smith were living (separately, not together) in Exmouth at the time of their marriage.
At the time of her death (in Exeter, Devon) in April 1980, Muriel's usual address, as show on her death certificate, was Des Salines, MAJORCA.
Given this overseas connection, I wondered whether Muriel married Mr Howarth in another country, but my exhaustive enquiries and trawls through info on the www, Ancestry, FindMyPast, etc have revealed NOTHING!!!
If anyone can shed any light on Muriel's marriage to Mr Howarth (or has any info on any of her marriages), I'd love to hear.
N/26-1-2020
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As you say the 1939 register lists all of her marriages does it also give dates when these changes were made.
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Did you find any further information on CFJ Smith (for completeness, if not for help with the Howarth marriage)?
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Thank you all for reading my post.
Chempat: I have not found anything on CFJ Smith - certainly no record of death, of course there's a chance he's still alive (born around 1922).
Rosie99: Unfortunately it is only Muriel's marriage to AC Cruttenden as shown on the 1939 register that gives a date. All others are hidden beneath redacted lines above and below Muriel's entry. The very kind people at FindMyPast managed to (I assume) take a peek below these redactions to tell me that there was another name 'Smith' against Muriel, which I how I found out she'd been married a fourth time!! No date was given.
I have been looking for marriages between Cruttenden and Howarth, as I have assumed, maybe wrongly, that Muriel was 'Mrs Cruttenden' when she married Mr Howarth, but of course there may be a fifth husband (who would have been husband number 3), in which case her name at marriage to Mr Howarth would not have been Cruttenden.
My search goes on .....
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The 1939 register could have been altered to Smith as she was using later known by that name. In the UK you can call yourself what you like without legally changing your name and if her NHS records were changed to the name she was using then the register would have been updated
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Hi Rosie
With the exception of her birth name (Mullenger) all Muriel's surnames appear on the 1939 Register. She was Muriel BURRELL at the time of the 1939, then CRUTTENDEN in 1946. HOWARTH appeared later (no date though), and finally SMITH in 1975. Muriel's surname was Smith at the time of her death in 1980.
I always assumed that in order for additions to be made to the 1939 Register, any change of surname would have had to be official, i.e. through marriage so if Muriel had changed her surname to Howarth on a whim, I doubted whether this would have been entered on the Register, though I may be wrong.
Change of name via Deed Poll was something I had considered so some time ago I checked the London Gazette. Unfortunately I did not find Muriel, but interestingly did find a Deed Poll for a lady (Susan M M Mullenger) who was born in 1912 and who we had considered (pre-internet) could have been Muriel but after sending for birth certificate proved not to be.
Nadine