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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: moby1 on Sunday 16 November 14 01:40 GMT (UK)
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Please can someone tell me what it says next to Kate Milne, Head under 'Relation to head of Family' please.. still trying to track this ancestor born as a British Subject in India (now wondering if she is a widow)
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"W" Widow
Regards
Malky
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....same for me - W for Widow
sami
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Yes W for Widow - Remember it may just be a title she used and does not guarantee a previous marriage
Kay
Edit -Posted a suggestion on your previous thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=491310.new#new
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Many thanks everyone! That changes everything.. now I've got to figure out who she married.. it seems an impossible task considering on two census' she's put a 5 year difference in her age! She had two daughters, on Annie's birth certificate it states 'illegitimate/no father' and I couldn't find Alice's at all. Bit lost as to how to proceed.
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Remember women who were unmarried with children sometimes took the title of widow. :)
Any thoughts on a possible Catherine Milne I suggested on your other thread? http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=491310.new#new
Kay
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Remember women who were unmarried with children sometimes took the title of widow. :)
I didn't know that!
I have enough trouble with the old habit of (sometimes) dropping the "in law" that we now use
for "Brother In Law", "Sister in Law" (etc).
(of course, even today not all Aunts & Uncles are your parents' siblings)
BugBear
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Sorry - I should have said that they sometimes called themselves a widow for appearances!! ;D
Kay
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Hi Kay,
Yes! Thank you for that.. I did start to look at it, and started feeling a little lost. The birth date is close too (on two of her census she is 5 years apart in age). It is possible indeed, but is there any way of knowing for sure? At this point, I'm tempted to hire a professional as just keep finding possibilities but no definitive answer.
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It isn't easy is it !! Sadly I can't see any reference to a David Milne that would match in the East Indian records on FindMyPast.
When fiddling I did come across an old question from a person researching the Milne family born in Bombay which I think relates to the Milne family I posted details of in Dundee. Don't know if you can access this, but I wonder whether he ever got any further?? http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/askanexpert/webchat?page=96
Kay
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Hi Kay,
Yes! Thank you for that.. I did start to look at it, and started feeling a little lost. The birth date is close too (on two of her census she is 5 years apart in age). It is possible indeed, but is there any way of knowing for sure? At this point, I'm tempted to hire a professional as just keep finding possibilities but no definitive answer.
The point is to continue finding possibilities, and then chasing the consequences. Eventually they (tend to...) build to a either preponderance of evidence, which is your current best-approximation-to-truth, or (alternatively) lead to a contradiction so obvious that a particular trail can be eliminated (but noted, for the avoidance of future "false hits").
It's important to keep very good, complete, notes (probably in software) so you can keep track of all this.
BugBear
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Thank you Kay, that's really interesting! I am not sure how I could get in touch with him there. But the birth of his relative is very close to the birth date for mine, so they could be siblings.. Maybe I need to head to the British Library to see if she was baptised.
And thank you BugBear also.. I'm sure there's an answer out there somewhere, I shall persevere :)
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Kay.. I think the link you gave me looks promising.. much of the family seem to have been born in Bombay and Clara's surname has changed from Millen to Miln to Millan.. finally getting somewhere! hooray!
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Brilliant - Remember that it is only how Catherine was transcribed as the image is only available on Scotlands People.
Some family mysteries are fascinating and I have the wedding cert for possible sister Clara Milne (shown below in 1871 ) in 1875 to David Page and attach details of her parents from the cert. The family seem to have returned from India between Catherine's birth in India and Henry Stewart's birth in Dundee
Jane Stweart 44 b Dundee
Stewart Miln 22 Son b East indie, bombay
Clara Miln 20 Daughter b East indie
Catherine Miln 17 East indie British Subject
Henry Stewart 15 son b Dundee
Robert Stewart 5 son b Dundee
Jane Ann Grewe 7 Mo Stanger(Stranger?) b Dundee
Edit - Henry Stewart above seems to have been registered as Stewart https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYY6-2QT
And younger brother Robert registered both as Stewart or Coupar https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY1D-LJT
Kay
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Hi Kay, thanks for all this. All this changing of names (both first and surname is so confusing!). I've tracked down a marriage between Jean Stewart & David Milne 11/11/1810 in Perth.. not sure as the family generally Dundee based.
I've been trying to track a death cert for David Milne/Millen/Miln etc as that would seem the most likely cause of them returning to UK, esp as he doesn't seem to make it into 1871 census.
I have a niggling doubt that my mother said that Catherine Milne was born and spent time in India as a psychic.. if she left when she was 2, then that's unlikely.. unless it's just a myth..
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Many family legends can be myths :) My grandmother always said she came from the Isle of Man, but she was born in Liverpool!!
Remember the first name Jean and Jane were often interchangeable in Scotland. I don't think the marriage you found in 1810 could be the right Jean Stewart and David Milne sadly. Jean wasn't born until 1827ish in Dundee. I looked for marriages between 1840-1850 on Scotlands People and Family Search but couldn't see one. It could be Jane/Jean never married and that's why she is listed with the surname Stewart in the census
It is possible that the family left David Milne in India. Something happens between Catherine Milne's birth in approx 1856 in India and Henry Stewart's birth in Jan 1856 in Dundee that caused him to be registered in his mother's maiden name and listed as illegitimate.
Edit - Henry Stewart was living in Dundee in 1901 with wife Mary Ann and found his marriage in Dundee in 1897. No father is listed on his marriage cert and his mother is listed as Jane Stewart Housekeeper who subsequently married David Milne Civil Engineer!! Slightly the wrong way round
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I may have found Jean/Jane Stewart in 1841. Henry Stewart's birth cert in 1856 lists the informant of the birth as Mary Stewart Aunt? ie sister of Jean/Jane Stewart
Possible family in 1841 Living at E Side Middle Street, Dundee
John Stewart 50 Shoe M J
Margret Stewart 40
Eliza Stewart 15
Jean Stewart 10
Mary Stewart 10
Robert Stewart 10
James Stewart 4
By 1851 Jean has left home but Mary is still living there at Henderson's Loynd??
John Stewart 63 Shoemaker b Dundee
Margaret Stewart 50 b Dundee
Mary Stewart 24 b Dundee
Robert Stewart 21 Sailor b Dundee
James Stewart14 b Dundee
Andrew Forbes 24 Lodger
William Hoglge 24 Lodger
Edward Thompson 24 Lodger
John Romains 16 Lodger
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That's amazing Kay - nice work! You should do this for a living, if you don't already :) I'm not nearly the detective you are!
Ok, so on the 1871 census Catherine Milne at 17, must be born in 1854 in India, and Henry was born 2 years later in Dundee, so I shall check the travel and see if there is anything I can find between those years.
Catherine has played around with her age quite a bit: on the two census' I am certain of, in the 1891 census she is 37, and 10 years later in the next census, she is 39!
Thank you for checking all those documents for me.. are there any that I ought to look at that haven't been covered do you think?
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Ooooh i've just found Clara's baptism in Hydrabad, India in 1851 to parents David P. Millan & Jane Stewart.. certainly not married here.
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Ooooh i've just found Clara's baptism in Hydrabad, India in 1851 to parents David P. Millan & Jane Stewart.. certainly not married here.
Oh - Well found Moby ;D Brilliant. On the image David P listed as Engineer in the Indian Navy and at the time living in Katree - wherever that is - although listed under Hyderabad, Bombay. A middle name with intial P looks really good.
I was fiddling with Jane/Jean's side trying to find more clues re David. Jean/Jane is with her daughter Clara Page in 1891, but not living with her is 1901. Sadly I can't see an obvious death that should confirm details of her parents
Kay
Edit - I am no expert at this -but I do love a mystery. My grandmother who was rather creative at her place of birth started me off many years ago - It didn't help that she took 5 years off her age each time she married!!
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This might be of interest, on Kevin Asplin's China War Medal Roll there is a David Milne - A(cting)/Master Bernice and a John C Milne - 3rd class Engineer, also serving on Bernice. Bernice was an Indian Navy Paddle Sloop armed with 1-68pdr and 2-32pdrs, built in Glasgow in 1836; she was burnt in an accident in the Persian Gulf on 31/10/1866 . They both received the 2nd China War Meal with the clasp for 'Taku Forts 1860'.
Martin
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That looks very interesting and possibly mentions a relation John C Milne
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Excellent. Ha! Women like to take a few years off here and there :) I'll look into that..
Well, I've found a couple of things in the meantime.. One is from a member of Ancestry.co.uk, whose info is private.. he has a Catherine Milne, born 1853 in Kotri, Sindh, India.. I wrote to him, but haven't heard anything back yet. As it's private can't get any more info.
Yes, I see that Jane/Jean is no longer about in 1991.. maybe she died - 62 is a fair age at that time.
Also, got Henry's birth cert.. unfortunately the copy is so bad I can barely make out anything, except that it says illegitimate and under the mother she has crossed out several names before putting Stewart, and the father has a few things crossed out too. Mary is there also. I've sent it back to Scotland's people for a better copy/transcription.
I've still got that niggling doubt as I never found the birth certificate for Alice Milne in the UK b 1882 (the older sister of Annie Jack Milne my great-grandmother b 1885, and daughter of Catherine Milne).. though I did find a reference of an Alice M Milne born in Bangalore/Royal Engineers Regiment in 1881.. but not much more info - not even mother's name. Both are said to be born in Dundee from the census', and I have Annie's birth cert (states illegitimate/Dundee).. but wondering what on earth has happened to Alice's - unless she was born elsewhere.. mysteries.. mysteries eh?
I'll keep investigating..
Thanks for all your help Kay!
Morven
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I think the private tree that you found is the same person whose post on Genes I referred to earlier and is a relation of Stewart Milne b 1850 ish
Henry's birth cert is appalling with the writing being really bad. His mother's details look like Jean - then Jean maiden name crossed -with Stewart below. His father's name I can't make out, but it does not look like Milne- Occupation possible baker
With David Milne being listed as in the Indian Navy at the time of Clara's birth Martin's find above re David Milne looks very promising Will have a look at Alice's birth and see if I can find anything
Good luck Kay
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Alice was registered as Alison Pearson Milne in 1882. She is listed as illegitimate with mother Catherine Milne sack machinist
Look as though she married Henry Maurice in 1904 in Dundee
Kay
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Thanks Kay, I'm particularly intrigued if anyone else is looking into this, as to my understanding there are no other relatives. Catherine Milne had two daughters, Alice never married or had kids (my mum believes she ran off with a french man to Edinburgh), Annie married George McDougall and had two boys; Colin died young in a car accident, and my granddad Alfred only had one child, my mother.. so I'd be intrigued if there are more.. perhaps Catherine's siblings. I do hope so!
Wow! just found your post.. I'm on the search now.. I have no idea how you found it! That's amazing!