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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: clath on Monday 10 November 14 07:09 GMT (UK)

Title: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: clath on Monday 10 November 14 07:09 GMT (UK)
A mystery man. No information on photo. Has a green sash. Possibly he was in a war. Sash has possible writing on it.
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Seoras on Monday 10 November 14 08:31 GMT (UK)
Do you have the original clath. If so can you show the whole thing and the reverse, it could help in dating.
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: clath on Monday 10 November 14 11:17 GMT (UK)
Do you have the original clath. If so can you show the whole thing and the reverse, it could help in dating.
Hi seoras yes have the original. No info on back of photo unfortunately. When I tried to post the whole photo it was rejected for being to big.  So had to keep on cropping it down
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: kath davis on Monday 10 November 14 12:03 GMT (UK)
Sashes seem to be normally worn on the right shoulder - the left is kept for particular orders - in UK the Order of the Garter and the Order of the Thistle. (info from Wikipedia) Could the photo be a the wrong way round? - which would help date it I think.

Kath
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Monday 10 November 14 12:53 GMT (UK)
Flipped sash.

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: AJ100 on Monday 10 November 14 15:15 GMT (UK)
I would guess somewhere around the 1880's onwards. I immediately thought of Freemasons but I'm not sure the sash is the right colour.

AJ
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Seoras on Monday 10 November 14 15:23 GMT (UK)
If the sash was that colour originally AJ. Seems it was important enough to colour so maybe it was.

Clath, if you scan the whole thing then re-size it, you should be ok. I, and others on here, I know use Irfanview for re-sizing. It's free to download and really useful and easy to use. Here's a link.

http://www.irfanview.com/
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Monday 10 November 14 15:53 GMT (UK)
I'm not getting a lot from it, looks like "Defender/Defence" ? but not sure.

Regards

Malky
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: philipsearching on Monday 10 November 14 18:15 GMT (UK)
My first thoughts are Irish republicanism because of the green sash.

Would it be possible for you to crop the photo to show just the badge and save it in a higher resolution?

Philip
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Sam Veal on Monday 10 November 14 18:52 GMT (UK)
Interesting the sash is in colour on a b/w photo
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Trishanne on Monday 10 November 14 19:31 GMT (UK)
It looks as though the sash has either been added later, or coloured later.  Is it possibly an anchor in the middle?
Pat
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Hibee on Monday 10 November 14 19:36 GMT (UK)
Is green the correct colour?  If so, possibly Ancient Order of Hibernians?

http://www.aohbristol.com/aohlogo2.jpg

Hibee
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Lily M on Monday 10 November 14 19:43 GMT (UK)
Looks to me that the sash has been added later.

Is that a lion on the left, and the white head of a unicorn on the right?   Which are usually shown that way round.

If so, the sash could have just been painted onto the left shoulder.  Maybe it was easier to paint that way round.
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: kath davis on Monday 10 November 14 21:59 GMT (UK)
It was on the left shoulder originally, perhaps that was correct after all!
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: clath on Tuesday 11 November 14 00:44 GMT (UK)
Hi all thanks for your replies. Will try and scan as suggested. The clothes this mystery man was wearing looked like militery to me. As someone said they could make out defender on the emblem. But wasnt sure.
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: clath on Tuesday 11 November 14 00:46 GMT (UK)
u

interesting what you say Lily does look like its been painted on or eas the sash in black and white then painted
Looks to me that the sash has been added later.

Is that a lion on the left, and the white head of a unicorn on the right?   Which are usually shown that way round.

If so, the sash could have just been painted onto the left shoulder.  Maybe it was easier to paint that way round.
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: clath on Tuesday 11 November 14 00:55 GMT (UK)
A thought. I might take the photo to a photography shop they have tools to enlarge the image. See what I can find out
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: neilston war memorial on Tuesday 11 November 14 02:21 GMT (UK)
Dont get too caught up  by the colour and think this is Irish because of such, That is the colour of the kilwinning Freemasons lodge no 0
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: clath on Tuesday 11 November 14 13:02 GMT (UK)
If the sash was that colour originally AJ. Seems it was important enough to colour so maybe it was.

Clath, if you scan the whole thing then re-size it, you should be ok. I, and others on here, I know use Irfanview for re-sizing. It's free to download and really useful and easy to use. Here's a link.

http://www.irfanview.com/

hi i went to this irfanview web site you suggested. it suggested different downloads from companies offering downlad.what do you suggest
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: jim1 on Tuesday 11 November 14 17:30 GMT (UK)
this one:
http://download.cnet.com/IrfanView/
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Seoras on Tuesday 11 November 14 17:53 GMT (UK)
What Jim said.

Evening Jim ;)
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: jim1 on Tuesday 11 November 14 19:37 GMT (UK)
Agree with Seoras
evening George.
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: clath on Wednesday 12 November 14 08:29 GMT (UK)
ok i have made s8me improvements to the photo. i can just make out  some numbers a word on the sash! 'Socic ' and as someone else said maybe defender also? i googled the word it came up with scottish origins. We have the surname stewart in the family.
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: kath davis on Wednesday 12 November 14 08:41 GMT (UK)
Society
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: clath on Wednesday 12 November 14 08:53 GMT (UK)
Society
[/quote

yes thats what i also thought  Kath. well thats a start . thanks :)
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: kath davis on Wednesday 12 November 14 08:54 GMT (UK)
Really not sure about this, but once I had seen "Society" I decided to flip, but then it was still wrong - so a vertical flip later I have this.  May be Defender, but I think I can make out BER...  Sorry, Clath if this is right your ancester not only had his sash on the wrong shoulder, but upside down as well!

Kath
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Trishanne on Wednesday 12 November 14 12:00 GMT (UK)
Could it be Society of Hibernians?
Pat
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: thetowers on Wednesday 12 November 14 12:01 GMT (UK)
Ned Kelly was given a green sash for saving a drowning child.
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: philipsearching on Wednesday 12 November 14 18:22 GMT (UK)
"SOCIETY OF" looks good, but could it be "SOCIETE DE" ?  I can't figure out the last part, which does seem to begin with "BER".
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: clath on Thursday 13 November 14 12:05 GMT (UK)
pretty sure ive had a breakthrough in identifying the  man in the photo .happened to show someone the photo today and we compared it to another i had. .My friend tells me its the same bloke minus the beard. .This is my Irish  gg Grandfather John William Knox, from Dublin?? he had the photo taken in Kilkenny and immigrated to Australia Married 1864. So the sash is Irish.
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: majm on Thursday 13 November 14 12:31 GMT (UK)
Ned Kelly was given a green sash for saving a drowning child.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/16/1032054751911.html   

Ned Kelly was 11 years of age and the sash was a green silk one, "fringed with bullion".
http://www.slv.vic.gov.au/explore/fact-sheets/ned-kelly-fact-sheet

Ned Kelly 1855-1880

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Brit2015 on Saturday 22 November 14 21:12 GMT (UK)
Definitely says SOCIETY OF HIBERNIANS and the green is perfect match to all websites out there.  What about sending original to one of the Societies for confirmation !
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: dansdottir on Sunday 23 November 14 00:45 GMT (UK)
The animal reminds me of this emblem for the Society of the Golden Fleece.

http://www.antiquesatoz.com/sgfleece/
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: cazza59 on Sunday 23 November 14 06:46 GMT (UK)
I agree, Society of Hibernians.

Such a shame the pic was vandalised with the colouring.   :(


Caroline

PS  I'm also amazed that Brit and I have come up with almost same colouring, therefore have followed the same steps.   ;D
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: cazza59 on Sunday 23 November 14 06:50 GMT (UK)
Could be my imagination, but could that be a cockerel in the badge?  Possibly two crossed flags and a cockerel? 

Caroline
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: Hibee on Sunday 23 November 14 09:28 GMT (UK)
Not part of Hibernian imagery, the cockerel.

Choose from flags, harps, shamrocks, etc.

Hibee
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: cazza59 on Sunday 23 November 14 09:38 GMT (UK)
I meant to delete that post.  After I put it up I had a gander and couldn't find anything except what you suggest, so yep, scrap that idea. I think its just a case of pareidolia on my part!  :)

Caroline
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: philipsearching on Sunday 23 November 14 22:37 GMT (UK)
For information, in the House of Commons on 24 February 1914 in a debate on the Government of Ireland Bill, Sir John Randles (Conservative) said:
"If we read the speeches which were antecedent to the election in Cork, we should find that only second to the dislike of Ulster is the dislike of Cork for the prospect of being placed under what they call the Molly Maguires. The Society of Hibernians presents as great a terror to the people of Cork, perhaps, as to the people of Belfast; but, at any rate, the condition of Ireland is such that there are armed men in Ulster, men ostensibly drilling for certain purposes."
(quoted from Hansard)

There was a Hibernia Society in Ireland in the 1830s but I don't know if there is a connection or when the Society of Hibernians was established.

My feeling that the sash might be to do with Irish republicanism was good (he writes, grinning smugly!)  :P
Title: Re: can someone date this photo and decipher possible writing on sash thanks
Post by: clath on Tuesday 25 November 14 11:35 GMT (UK)
Sorry just got back on after a weeks absence  thanks cazza for deciphering those words on the sash. A job well done. So is my ancestor a Hibernian? I wonder what he got up to then.