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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: queencorgi1 on Tuesday 04 November 14 11:23 GMT (UK)
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In 1841 Thomas Greaves was simply 'Greaves', as was his son William. However, by 1861 William had become 'William Greaves Hurd'; in 1871 he was 'William Greaves' again'; but in 1881 'William Hurd Greaves'. His son John, meanwhile, was 'John Greaves' in 1881 and 1891 but 'John Graves Hurd' in 1901 and 'John Greaves Hurd' in 1911. In 1920 his son Frederick was 'Greaves-Hurd' with a hyphen but thereafter 'Greaves' vanished altogether and the family name became simply 'Hurd'. Can anybody suggest what was going on? I wondered if 'Hurd' could be the surname of a spouse -- but it isn't.
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Is this in the Derby area?
There's a William Greaves Hurd with mother Sarah Hurd so maybe a combination of mother/fathers names?
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Welcome :)
What is the first occurrence of the "Hurd" part of the name?
I see a birth registration for Betsey Greaves Hurd in Shardlow district, Jun qtr 1845 - is she part of this family?
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Hi Millipede
This IS in the Derby area. I think William (??Hurd) Greaves is the son of Thomas Greaves who had a pub at Hartington (b. 1781). I don't have a wife's name for Thomas so I am very interested to hear of a Sarah Hurd, which would fit nicely!
Hi avm228
I am sure Betsey would be the daughter of William Greaves Hurd by his first wife Mary (Palfreman). They married in 1844.
The family are all in the Leics/Derby corner around Shardlow and Castle Donington for generations until John went south to be a stableman at Chiswick House (owned by the Duke of Devonshire, which is probably the connection).
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Suggested baptism of William - it looks as though he was born out of wedlock to Sarah Hurd, but middle name Greaves may be a nod to his father:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NYLX-QQ3
I expect this is what Milliepede had found earlier.
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avm228, that sound you just heard was a scream of excitement. Oh yes, that's it, isn't it? How interesting that the family then waver to and fro between the two surnames. This is my husband's family line I am doing: I have had lots of illegitimate children on my own side but they always stuck to their mother's surname. I will now go away and see if I can track down Sarah any further...
Many many thanks!!
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Queencorgi (ma'm)
A big welcome to RootsChat - I'm delighted you got your answer within about twenty minutes of joining RootsChat :)
Trystan
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Hi Trystan, is that a record?!
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No - not even close. ;D ;D
(I'm jesting)
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I agree that William Greaves Hurd was the Son of Sarah Hurd.
I think she was Widowed though.
BENJAMIN Hurd Married Sarah CARPMEAL, 18 November 1812, All Saints, Derby, Derbyshire
(FreeREG)
Benjamim HURD, Servant, age 29 (birth c 1790) was Buried same Church, 28 Feb 1819.
(Familysearch.Org and FreeREG)
Trish :)
PS Welcome to Rootschat!
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Yes I was just looking at Benjamin & Sarah too.
Possible children of theirs:
Ann, 1816: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBDJ-SLC
James, 1819: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KBDJ-9F9
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Benjamin/Sarah Baptised same Church;
ANN, 12 Jan 1816
DAINES (male), 21 May 1819
JAMES, 21 May 1819
(Familysearch.Org)
Remember these are Baptism dates not birth dates so Daines/James are likely not twins
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Daines I would have thought is likely to be a mistranscription of James.
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Thank you guys! Sarah went on to have a fairly tough life, it would appear. In 1841 and 1851 she is a seamstress living in central Derby but in 1861 (aged 70) she was a charwoman. She only had a daughter Mary living with her (factory silk worker). As far as I can see William went to live with his father. I wonder what happened to the other (Hurd) children?
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I wonder whether Thomas was married to someone else when William was conceived?
As you know, we see Thomas aged 60 in 1841 as an innkeeper & farmer at Biggin with an assortment of young Greaves, but we don't know what his relationship was to each of them.
Isaac 21 born in county (Derbyshire)
Hannah 19 not born in county
William 19 born in county
Sarah 18 born in county
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My ancestors changed their names so it made it impossible to trace them any further back than about 1801. My husband changed his name to his step-fathers name after his Mum and Dad got divorced, so I have been doing his family history so that the children and grandchildren will know what the correct name will be if they decided to do any research. Otherwise they will be researching down the wrong tree.
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You are probably right.
Quote *Daines I would have thought is likely to be a mistranscription of James*.
I never though of that :-[
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Hi queenscorgi,
I am a bit confused here;
Quote;
Sarah went on to ....
As far as I can see William went to live with his father.
Bit confused as to waht you mean by living with his Father?
Do you have William Greaves Hurd on the 1841 Census with someone you think is his Father?
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William married at Biggin on 22 Jan 1849 and named Thomas Greaves as his father.
The Greaves household at Biggin in 1841 was as listed at reply #14.
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Ah, thank you.
Found the 1841 Census now.
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A newspaper announcement of the marriage:
Derby Mercury, 31 January 1849
Marriages
On 22nd instant, at St Thomas', Biggin, Hartington, by the Rev. Thomas Booth, LL.D., Mr William Greaves, of Biggin, to Miss Mary Newham, of the "Dean of Hartington Arms", Newhaven.
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Yes indeed. In 1841 William was living with Thomas Greaves in Biggin, Hartington, and was a cowkeeper -- other persons (as noted above) were Isaac, Hannah and Sarah Greaves -- who I now must presume were half-siblings. An interesting suggestion above that Thomas may have been married to someone else, although I haven't so far located a marriage.
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other persons (as noted above) were Isaac, Hannah and Sarah Greaves -- who I now must presume were half-siblings.
I wouldn't presume that; we just don't know how they were related to one another and to Thomas. For example Hannah was born out of county - she may be Isaac's wife. I see that an Isaac Greaves married in Ashbourne district in 1840 - one of the other names on the page was Hannah Chatterton.
On the other hand we see Isaac Greaves bc 1819 Biggin with a wife Margaret from 1851 onwards - and one of the 1840 brides was Margaret Holmes, so more work is required to sort out whom he married and when.
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Argh! You are absolutely right!