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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: PaulH_86 on Tuesday 28 October 14 13:16 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Im looking into the Holland side of My Family Tree, I thought i was getting somewhere but now I'm not 100% sure.
Maud Holland (Married, Sidney Stringer in 1914)
b1893 Nuneaton, Warwickshire
d1964 Nuneaton, Warwickshire
Census Records and Marriage Cert shows her Father was
Albert Edward Holland (Married, Sarah Ann Jane Fowler)
b abt1855
Marriage Banns show his father was, Moses Holland.
for a time I believed it to be the following Moses Holland - but I'm not so sure anymore, id love a second opinion, would somebody mind looking?
Moses Holland (Married Ambretta/Henrietta)
b abt 1821 (Barwell or Ratclife Culey)
d 1909 (Orton on the Hill)
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Do you know where your Albert is in 1871 because he isn't with that family - out on his own?
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Hi, I think this is the family on the 1861:
1861 Orton on the hill
M Holland 40 b. barwell
E Holland 35 b. Orton - but I think says Foston
Eliza Holland 19
Jones Holland 15
Cornelius Holland 8
Albert Holland 6 b. orton
Aron Holland 4
Jno Holland 1
pity only used initials for parents!!
Diddy
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Going one step at a time (so we can findthe right Albert, and hopefully then findhim as a child with dad).
Here is the family in 1901
42 Aston Rd, Nuneaton
Albert E 50 coal miner bn Orton on the Hill Leicestershire
Sarah J 49 bn Warwickshire
Lucy 18
George 11
Nelly 14
Sarah J 12
Maud 7
Frederick 6
Albert E 15. All children bn Nuneaton
And back to 1891
Arbury Rd Nuneaton
Albert E 40 coal miner bn Orton on the hill Leics
Sarah J 38 bn Stockingford Warwickshire
Moses 14 bn Stockingford
William S 13 bn Leicestershire
Eliza 9
John 11
Lucy 7
Albert E 5
Ellen 3
Savali? 2
George 3 mths. Younger children all bn Nuneaton
So it is looking as if Albert was bn about 1851 not 1855
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I can't see a birth for Albert Holland.
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1881
Gas St Nuneaton
Albert E 27 coal miner bn Orton on the hill Leics
Sarah J27 bn Stockingford Warwickshire
William S 3 bn "
John 1. Bn "
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There's an Albert Moses Holland out on his own in 1871 age 17 servant. Born Orton. Birth reg under Moses but no Edward name so maybe a different one.
Maybe this is the 6 year old from 1861.
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Thanks for looking, I think it might prove to be a difficult task, it's rumoured to be that somewhere along the line the Hollands may have been involved in some form of gypsy traveller showman fairground.
so this would explain why Albert Edward Holland suddenly appears with no prior information apart from his fathers name on his marriage banns to Sarah Fowler.
as I'm pretty sure that otherwise he would be documented in one way shape or form,
but saying that the moses from
Moses Holland (Married Ambretta/Henrietta)
b abt 1821 (Barwell or Ratclife Culey)
d 1909 (Orton on the Hill)
appears on a gypsy travellers family tree from the liverpool archives.
that tree only goes back one more generation
but lists Moses's wife and children as
Henrietta (Wife) (ambretta might be short for or a nickname of henrietta)
Children are as follows.
Eliza Holland
George Holland
Ben Holland
Jack Holland
Jonah Holland (i think the writings really bad)
etc
im guessing/hoping the etc includes Albert Edward Holland but i have no idea ???
Thanks
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Or (more likely?) he started life as Moses (birth reg found), grew up being called Albert (isthe 6 yr old found in 1861) but when adult uses the name Albert Edward . Would need some certs to see.
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Thats also another possibility I guess, one which messes with my mind further. ???
I'm only going on the fairground traveller link as its an old family story that Maud (Alberts Daughter) and possibly had foreign gypsy roots or something to do with the holland's which were involved in fairgrounds.
In photos she is very dark skinned she almost looks like a little old Romanian Fortune Teller.
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from the Leics Travellers index:
HOLLAND, Albert Moses & Ambretta baptised 4 February 1855 Orton on the Hill
other Hollands there too:
http://www.leics.gov.uk/index/leisure_tourism/local_history/recordoffice/recordoffice_exhibitions/record_office_gypsy_roma_traveller/gypsies_roma_travellers_project-2.htm
Diddy
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And do you think Jones is
England and Wales, Birth Registration Index
Name: Jonas Holland
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar 1846
Atherstone Warwickshire
16/241
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Albert and Sarah
1881 RG11/3061/13/20
4, Bull Head Gas Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, England
Albert Holland Head Married Male 27 1854 Coal Miner Leicestershire Orton on the Hill
Sarah Holland Wife Married Female 27 1854 Worsted Weaver Warwickshire...all Stockingford
William S Holland Son Single Male 3 1878 Scholar Warwickshire
John Holland Son Single Male 1 1880 - Warwickshire
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From gypsyjib website (more Hollands in link)
http://www.gypsyjib.com/m/page/Holland+Family
1871 Census Ratcliffe Atherstone Leciestershire
Moses Holland .....53 b 1818 Leciestershire Brazier
Ambretta ..........49 b 1822 Northamptonshire
Cornelius .........18 b 1853 Leciestershire Brazier
Aaron .............14 b 1858 Staffordshire
John ..............11 b 1860 Leciestershire
George .............9 b 1862 Staffordshire
Benjamin ...........4 b 1867 Leciestershire
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So that family fits with the 1861 one that was found by Diddymiller , with Albert fitting in between Cornelius and Aaron.
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Aaron Baptism
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWH3-PR3
Sorry had this hanging whilst I was searching
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So that family fits with the 1861 one that was found by Diddymiller , with Albert fitting in between Cornelius and Aaron.
Yes. Bit more info for that 1861 census (from link I posted above)
1861 Census Orton on the Hill Leciestershire * In Tents*
Jas Boswell.........39 b 1822 NK
Phillis.............44 b 1817 Somerset
Jno.................10 b 1851 Bolton
M Holland...........40 b 1821 Barnwell * Moses*
E Holland...........35 b 1826 NK
Eliza...............19 b 1842 Warsall
Jones...............15 b 1846 Atherstone
Cornelius............8 b 1853 Bancote
Albert...............6 b 1855 Orton Leciestershire
Aaron................4 b 1857 Litchfield
Jno..................1 b 1860 Orton Leciestershire
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Thats also another possibility I guess, one which messes with my mind further. ???
I'm only going on the fairground traveller link as its an old family story that Maud (Alberts Daughter) and possibly had foreign gypsy roots or something to do with the holland's which were involved in fairgrounds.
In photos she is very dark skinned she almost looks like a little old Romanian Fortune Teller.
Looks like the family are English Romany Gypsies
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people
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Just found an old mesage
http://boards.ancestry.co.uk/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=2384&p=surnames.holland
suggests previous marriage and as Ambretta Smith
HO107/2139 / 242 Page: 22
Granby Nottinghamshire
James Smith gypsy brazier chairbottomer abt 1823 N Head
Ambretta Smith abt 1826 N Wife
Riley Smith abt 1850 N Son
Emma Smith abt 1845 N Daughter
Martha Smith abt 1849 N Daughter
Mark Sherriff gypsy brazier abt 1829 N Head
Naomi Sherriff abt 1829 N Wife
William Sherriff abt 1848 N Son
Joseph Smith gypsy brazier chairbottomer abt 1822 N Head
Sarah Smith abt 1828 N Wife
Mark Smith abt 1850 N Son
Thomas Smith abt 1847 N Son
The first few here are baptisms for James and Ambretta just in case
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e33/
Mark Sherriff married Naomi Holland 21 Feb 1848 St Mary and All Saints Bingham
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Thanks for looking into it everyone!
looks like i wasn't going mad after all.
Still seams like a little bit of a loose connection as Albert doesn't appear in many documents apart from when he's about 6 and then again when he's older, with his own family.
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Hi
I'm very new to this site. I've already posted elsewhere about this so forgive me if you've already read it!!
I'm trying to find out more about my great grandparents. Charles Halsall and Annie Hadwin, both living in Southport in the 1900's upwards born about 1875. Annie, according to my mum was Romany and Charles was a clown. I've traced Annie, whose parents were David Hadwin and Jane Smith, back to Morecambe. On their marriage cert Jane's father is James Smith an Ostler and Jane comes from Kendal. I found a Smith family in Milnthorpe in the 1841 which appear to fit. James Smith is an Ostler at The Cross Keys Inn and his parents are John Smith and Dorothy Bindloss. (The Bindloss are a wealthy family from Milnthorpe/Heversham)
The reason I'm linking this to the Hollands is that living with my great grandparents, Charles and Annie, in 1939 was a 16 year old boy called William Healy Holland, a grocer's assistant. He was taken in my great grandparents and my mum remembers him very well. He married in Southport to a Monica and moved to Crosby. Apparently he was quite musical and my mum said he met or knew The Beatles!! He died quite young in 1982 at the age of 57. I'm quite interested to find out more about him. I know his birthday was 5/4/1925 but don't know where he came from. The interesting fact is that a Walter Holland ran a grocer's shop in the next road in Southport in 1939 and I wondered if there was a link between them.