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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: odysseyov on Tuesday 28 October 14 07:05 GMT (UK)
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Mary Murphy married Ggrandpa Thomas Minton in NZ (Brighton, West Coast) in 1867. She was 18 (needed permission to marry) and ggpa 34. We've tracked ggpa right back to his hometown of Clerkenwell, London, UK, have his death notices and even a newpaper photograph (he was a musician). But Mary is elusive. They had six children, 2 born NZ, 2 born Victoria, 2 born NSW, the last one born and died in 1882. Gma's birth certificate suggests Mary was born in Victoria, but try as we might we've been unable to find any details of Mary's parents, birth, siblings, or even her death. We suspect a sister, Letitia, who appeared as a witness to Mary's Marriage and later the same year married John Patrick Thomas in Charleston, NZ. But Letitia could have been a cousin or even an aunt. Margarita Newberry gave permission to Mary; but we can find no link via the NZ boards that ties Mary and Margarita together. Can some kind, diligent, RootsChatterer (?) please suggest how we might find our Mary? :-*
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Hi
Please would you link the NZ threads so those wishing to help have some further background.
Have you located the death of Letitia THOMAS? Who were her parents?
Sue
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Yes, may I support Sue’s post. I have not noticed your NZ threads, so perhaps I am duplicating suggestions already offered on that Board.
But on the offchance that I am not duplicating other RChatters,
I wonder if you have the birth certs for any of your Grandma’s siblings? Particularly any of the birth registrations for those born in Victoria? You see, Victoria birth certificates are recognised as being perhaps the most informative certificates in the world.
The details on these are listed at the following RChat thread :
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
So you should expect to find on those Vic certs, confirming info or perhaps new info giving you
Mary’s names, including maiden name
Her occupation
Her then age,
Her birthplace (and from my own reading of the very few births in my own tree that were Vic registered) I can see that where my 19th century relatives were born ‘overseas’ that even in those instances, the birth place of the parents included the name of the village, the county, and then the country.
And of course all the other vital family history info you have mentioned in your Opening post.
So then with that info, perhaps we can try to find Mary's parents :)
As you have not yet provided the names of Grandma’s siblings, it is not possible to use any resources to look up the Vic BDM reference nos to help you locate those Vic birth certs.
But for around $20 Au, and your plastic card, you can immediately download the Vic BDM images, once you have found the year and registration no. There are quite a few RChatters who can assist in helping you with the reference no and year, once they know which names to look up.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
ADD
On the offchance, here’s several possible births registered in Victoria
Maria MINTON,
Father as Thomas MINTON, Mother as Mary MURPHY
Birth at Hotham in 1872
Registration no. 10606
And
Arabella Georgina MINTON,
Same parents named on the index
Birth at Collingwood in 1874
Registration no. 7912
Cheers, JM
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I am assuming these are the NSW births, all registered Sydney
NSW 1387/1876 Amelia Louisa MINTON, parents: Thomas, Mary
NSW 3475/1882 Maud A MINTON, parents: Thomas, Mary (Death reg NSW 2320/1882)
Where and when did Thomas die? Was there any mention of Mary in his death notice?
The only death listed in NSW is for edited later Mary N MINTON in 1888, registered at Berrima (#7787) with parents John J and Margaret. This is not your Mary as the birth for this child is listed with same parents in 1887, so only a baby at time of death.
Judith
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There are already a few threads on RC about this family & they need to be linked here as chatters are repeating information already given :(
I'll locate them & post the links given that the OP hasn't bothered.
Judith, Thomas died 1901 in NSW ;)
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Thank you both Sue and Majm for your responses. Happy to link NZ boards if you could tell me how?
Arabella Georgina is my Gma - I have her birth Cert and you are right Vic Certificates are very informative. However, it only shows Mary's birthplace as Melbourne, Victoria and her age as 25. We have the marriage Certificate (1867) which confirms Mary's age. It was a civil marriage - Mary had been resident in Brighton 6 months, Thomas 1 month. No reason to suspect a shotgun wedding because 1st child was born 11 months later. I have the details of all Gma's siblings, but only ordered Gma's as I thought the others would show similar information.
We can't definitely link Letitia and Mary, but hypothesising that Letitia is a sister rather than a cousin, we've tracked down a Letitia Thomas, nee Murphy, who died 1924 at Carlton, father John Murphy, Mother Ann Doolan. Also discovered that Letitia sued John for non-maintenance of her 6 children in 1886, in Victoria. Two of Letitia's children were born in NZ, the others in Victoria. It seems the eldest, Letitia, sued a John Gee for support for an illegitmate child in 1891 (via trove.nla.gov.au) and it's possible Letitia Jnr died in 1950 at Richmond. There is a death for Ann Murphy nee Doolan in 1889, and for John Murphy in 1879, both in Victoria, which could be Letitia's parents, but lacking a birth Certificate for either Mary or Letitia which would link them together, we don't really know which, if any, death Certificate to apply for - and whether it would give us any further links. The NZ post was headed "Who was Mary Murphy" but I have no idea how to link it.
Regards,
odysseyov
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"I'll track them all down & post the links given that the OP hasn't bothered!"
Sorry if I've transgressed - the previous posts with which I was involved were linked to Thomas Minton; all of his family have been discovered and verified. Mary's family has posed many more problems.
Please don't waste time on Thomas or the Minton family - as Merlin says, they have all been accounted for. It is the Murphy/potential Doolan side that we are trying to trace
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You should realise that to help find Mary we need all the information & that resides on other threads:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=582771.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=580905.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702985.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=582582.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=581673.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=581672.0
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Thanks, Merlin, I see the death for Thomas now.
odysseyov, while you may know all about Thomas's family it is helpful to have some pieces of information. For example, knowing that Thomas's death was registered in 1901 at Woollahra (suburb of Sydney) may give some clues as to where to look for the death of Mary. I see marriages for the daughters, also registered in Sydney, so, again, it is likely that Mary was also in NSW after the 1882 birth. So far I do not see mention of Mary in the In Memoriam notices for Thomas - thus it seems a possibility that she had died or was otherwise estranged some time before.
Many small clues can help build a picture and lead to the information you are seeking.
Judith
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Do you have the death certificate for Thomas?
If so, what information is given about his wife Mary?
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No, Mary wasn't mentioned in the Memoriam notices and nor was she mentioned in the family. As she was so much younger than Thomas, we speculated that either she left him after the death of Maude or was insitituionalised. We can't imagine any other reason why she would not have been mentioned. Gma and her sister spoke with love of their father but simply didn't mention their mother. As Letitia was resident in Vic we wondered (if they were sisters) whether Mary had returned to Vic. There is no record of a death form a Mary Minton in the relevant NSW bdm decades although I did find a Mary Murphy ?
I appreciate all the efforts to help and am sorry that I haven't provided enough information but will answer whatever you ask if I can.
Sorry, Merlin, I do not have Thomas death Certificate. Would it be likely to mention Mary?
odysseyov
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but lacking a birth Certificate for either Mary or Letitia which would link them together, we don't really know which, if any, death Certificate to apply for
Sometimes, the only way to find out is to buy it. There might be several John Murphys. Many of them list their children.
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As she was so much younger than Thomas, we speculated that either she left him after the death of Maude or was insitituionalised.
A lot of women in those days died in their 40's, even if it wasn't a child-bearing-related cause. A lot of men did too. It would be unwise to assume that just because she was much younger than her husband, that she ought to have outlived him.
I also noticed that your Mary was supposedly 18 in 1867, which would place her birth around 1849. In particular, that places her birth before the "gold rush", and also before the separation of Victoria as a separate colony, and before the period of very rapid growth of the economy and population. You might want to consider whether her parents had a convict background, which was not as fashionable then, as it is now, which led a lot of people to fudge some of their details.
But first, you need to find her death certificate. Someone suggested she died in 1886 ? I suggest you check that out, rather than arbitrarily reject it.
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I have edited my reply #3 as follows:
The only death listed in NSW is for edited later Mary N MINTON in 1888, registered at Berrima (#7787) with parents John J and Margaret. This is not your Mary as the birth for this child is listed with same parents in 1887, so only a baby at time of death.
Judith
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I also noticed that your Mary was supposedly 18 in 1867, which would place her birth around 1849. In particular, that places her birth before the "gold rush", and also before the separation of Victoria as a separate colony, and before the period of very rapid growth of the economy and population.
It also places her birth before civil registration of births commenced in 1853, so you are looking for a baptism.
Debra :)
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There are records for Arabella, Louis, William and Maria being admitted to the Randwick Asylum for Destitute Children - discharged in 1877. Perhaps they would give you some idea of what happened to Mary.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/searchform.aspx?id=74
Hmm, I see Maud was born 5 years later.
Debra :)
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Full details for the birth and death of Maud - where was she born and died (at home, in an institution or hospital?), would be extremely useful.
I see on Trove that in 1877 and in 1880, a Thomas Minton was advertising in Sydney newspapers saying he would not be held responsible for any debts incurred by his wife. The first date lines up with the kids being in Randwick, perhaps she'd left the family, and the children were temporarily put into care as a result, with their father then fetching them out when he was able.
Given this, and the gap between kids, we can't be sure that she didn't simply put down Thomas as the father on the certificate even if they were living separately at the time, for example. And she could have easily gone back to using "Murphy" or switched to another name altogether, which will make her hard to track.
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Arabella Georgina is my Gma - I have her birth Cert and you are right Vic Certificates are very informative. However, it only shows Mary's birthplace as Melbourne, Victoria and her age as 25.
Who was the informant on that birth cert?
Do you have any birth cert with Mary as the informant? That would be first hand information provided by Mary.
Cheers, JM
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Another thought ...
The birth certificate for the youngest of Mary's children if NSW or VIC should list the names of that child's older siblings.
With the gap between Maud and the older ones, we need to remember that the registration process was basically verbal questions and answers. And a married woman was presumed (at law) to be registering a child by her lawful husband. No one asked "are you still a couple", or "who is the baby's Dad". The question could be asked in many different ways, but perhaps it was likely to be "what is your husband's name", rather than "who fathered this baby".
So, while our 21st century eyes and ears are well trained in giving exact answers to very explicit questions on structured and detailed pre-prepared forms, the 19th century administrative processes were very different, less structured, and in many ways, less confrontational, so while some of the responses provided by informants seem to be less reliable, that in itself should not discredit any other piece of information either on that document or on other documents where that informant has given first hand info.
Cheers, JM
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I do not have Thomas death Certificate. Would it be likely to mention Mary?
Depending on the named informant's own knowledge, yes, it could well mention Mary, perhaps she was the informant, or perhaps it will show he was already a widower at the time of his death.
Depending on which colony's bdm registry, It could at least note if the informant knew if Thomas had ever married (where, when), and the known details about children of that marriage, both those then living and those already deceased. If there had been an inquest or similar into his death, it may be that there's a greater emphasis on the causes, rather than the family history details about Thomas, but if there was not any need for an enquiry, then possibly a family member was the informant. You won't know that depth of detail unless you obtain the information recorded on the official record.
You may need to obtain several bdm certificates, not just newspaper cuttings to be able to more clearly see not just what the informants knew at the time, but also to be able to know how the informant was connected to the family. So while dcs can be less reliable (ie not first hand info), there can be information there that helps join the dots in your research.
Cheers, JM
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Perhaps I am duplicating info already given on those several earlier threads. If so, I apologise.
NSW Electoral Roll 1878, WEST SYDNEY.
Thomas MINTON, householder, 2 Windmill St (so this would be in The Rocks district, Gipps Ward)
Sands Directory 1877
(directory compiled and closed for further entries to then commence publication as at 31 Oct 1876)
Thomas MINTON, 2 Washington lane (again, from my memory banks, I think this would also be Gipps Ward)., Sorry, I have just checked, likely it was in BRISBANE ward, it seems my grey cells need re-charging :)
1876 birth registration for Amelia Louisa MINTON may be useful to help track Mary (28 April 1876 seems to be the deduced date of her birth as per NSW BDM online) .
Amelia does not seem to be one of the children admitted to Randwick’s facility for Destitute Children 30 May 1877. She would have been 1 year old by then and perhaps still being nursed by Mary, her mum and perhaps kept with Mary, particularly in light of the SMH notice 5 June 1877 from Thomas .
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13389951
City of Sydney Assessment books are transcribed and available online and these include the names of the occupier of premises and not just the property owners. So, as Mary seems to have been still in Sydney (ie the BDM registration district "Sydney" which was only the CBD district of the City of Sydney) for Maud's 1882 birth ..... well perhaps Mary MINTON may be listed on those assessment books. (So that's why I have suggested GIPPS WARD, one of the several wards covering Sydney CBD at that time)
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/assessment-books
Cheers, JM
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Hopefully I am not going off on a tangent or duplicating other posts on those other threads.
Maria (Minnie) WONNOCOTT, wife and mother, perhaps was born Maria MINTON, to Thomas and Mary.
Maria’s sister, Bella SHEPHERD memorialised Maria in the SMH of 10 March 1917 on the one year anniversary. So, if from my armchair searchings this morning, IF Maria was born Maria MINTON, then Bella was also their daughter too.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15718101
So, from the online index, Maria Wonnocott’s 1916 death shows her parents as Thomas and Mary. The informant seems to know both Maria’s parents names, so Mary was not forgotten, and I suspect that Maria was the lass born in 1872 at Hotham, and that Bella was the lass born in 1874 at Collingwood.
From either of their marriage certificates, perhaps it can be determined if Mary was still living at those times, (perhaps not noted as deceased), or even perhaps if Mary had changed her surname (so, perhaps not just her maiden name, but her then surname, eg Mary XXXXX, formerly MINTON, nee MURPHY) …. Not all NSW BDM marriage registrations went to that level of detail, so perhaps these two mcs can be on a WISH LIST rather than on a MUST GET list. And of course, full official transcrptions are the better option as they have the details without the more expensive real deal certificate.
Maria’s NSW BDM seems to be registered in 1895, #4477, twice indexed perhaps due to difficulty reading her husband’s surname (WONNOCOLL and WONNOCOTT) and Bella’s is also twice indexed, but in 1893. #1075 (Arabella G and Isabella G). These two marriages were in Sydney. So, hopefully both have been fully reconciled by NSW BDM with their respective Church Records. Bella would not have been 21 years, so likely would have needed a parent to provide consent, and their name and relationship should be on the mc transcription.
Here’s the link to the many notices for Maria’s funeral, so many different family names, and friends too.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/15670250 11 March 1916.
Fingers crossed there’s someone who has already researched and has joined the dots and has Mary’s information available to share, but it seems to me that Mary was known to her daughters regardless of their admission by their Dad in their childhood to Randwick Asylum for Destitute Children, and their subsequent discharge (along with two brothers) in March 1878 to their Dad, Thomas Minton, of Kent Street, Sydney.
Sands 1905
H Wonnocott, 19 Selwyn St, PADDINGTON.
NSW ER 1903 WENTWORTH, polling at Moore Park
Harry George WONNOCOTT, 19 Selwyn St, a carter
Maria WONNOCOTT, 19 Selwyn St, domestic duties
NONE listed by the surname MINTON.
That seems to have exhausted my resources, sorry. :(
oops. Sands 1900. Henry WONNOCOTT, 64 Macquarie Street, South (JM notes this is almost into what could be considered today as Surry Hills, it is to the south side of Liverpool Street Sydney, near to Commonwealth St ..... which in turn was formerly known as Little Macquarie Street South)
Cheers, JM
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Majm, You have gone to so much trouble in checking over details and some of them I can confirm from my own knowledge. Yes, Maria Minnie and Arabella Georgina are siblings (the ones born in Victoria); so was William Thomas, Louis Napoleon (the two NZ born siblings), Amelia Laura (mis-listed as Amelia Louisa) and the child which died, Maud Ann(the latter two born in NSW). Maria and Amelia both married Wonnocotts. Maria married Harry George and Amelia married Albert Charles. I believe they were brothers, but haven't sent for marriage certificates or birth certificates so they could be cousins. I knew Maria's offspring personally and also their offspring. Amelia moved to NZ with her husband Albert Charles and Amelia's son's (Albert Charles') daughter and I are working on the family tree together.
We have the marriage Certificates for both Mary and Letitia Murphy; both married in 1867, Mary 's stated age 18 (in May) and Letitia's stated aged 21 (in November). Mary's marriage was performed "at the residence of the parties" but Letitia's was performed in the local Catholic Church.
We also have the document which shows the discharge of the four younger children (William, Louis, Maria and Arabella) to Thomas from the Randwick Institute for destitute children - it doesn't show who committed the children on May 30th 1877, only who rescued them on 22nd March, 1878 The younger child at the time, Amelia Laura, was not committed. June 28, 29, and July 1, 1878, Thomas was performing in an Orchestra in Adelaide. One wonders where the children were at this time in view, as Majm says, of Thomas' public notice that he would not be responsible for Mary's debts from 5 June, 1877, and again later in 1880.
As we already have the details of the siblings, Maud Ann's birth details seem less important than the city of Sydney assessment books, which may provide details of where Mary was living. However, I think Mary's parents' details would only show up on her birth records, which, because she was born before civil registration in Victoria, would only be available on baptismal records. Can anyone suggest how I could access those?
BTW, I believe Thomas was living with Maria Minnie in Woollahra when he died. He played for several years in the orchestra at the Alhambra Theatre and there is a photograph of him (along with the rest of the orchestra) which appeared in the Sunday Times, 1 July, 1928, in an article entitled "Pictures on my Wall" by Solar Plexus (I kid you not ;)). Ggpa was of course dead by then.
Information for Gma's birth Certificate was supplied by Ggpa; would it still be a good idea to obtain Maud's birth details, since there could have been separations and reconciliations in the time between Thomas' separate refusals to be responsible for Mary's debts?
The link to the concurrent NZ board is (if I have copied it correctly) as below
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702985.0
Thank you all for contributing -
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I am very NSW centric, so not much chop when it comes to VIC BDM searchings. BUT I do know that the Early Church Records that are indexed at NSW BDM include baptisms from “Victoria” as it was part of NSW until hived off into its own colony in 1851 (And as an aside, there’s BDM’s for NZ, Fiji, South Sea Islands, etc at ready to be found NSW BDM from similar era).
Also, there’s possibly two or more separate records for a single baptism at NSW BDM. This is simply because the then regulations caused a record in an original parish register to be transmitted to the Sydney based NSW Chaplains, and so both (and any intermediate register along the way) recorded the transmission, and NSW BDM has quite a number of each of separately recorded transmissions.
The familysearch.org has an ongoing project that can also help to find pre civil registrations, as they are uploading their transcriptions of original parish registers too. Of course, many babies were not baptised, and so are not found in baptismal records. And, on some occasions, the parish register is not available.
The VIC BDM online index DOES cover MANY pre 1853 historic church records. And can overlap with NSW BDM’s Early Church Records (online index has a “V” as part of the long reference no.)
Re Vic BDM online, I have checked as far as I can without spending any pennies, and for the two years 1848-1849 there are six matching records for “births” (ie baptismal records) for Mary MURPHY.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria
From a different resource, and covering the years 1847 – 1850 I can see the following Vic BDM reference nos. for ‘births’ for Mary MURPHY (NO second given name, I have not looked at those with second given name)
There are a number of more experienced RChatters who have a far better understanding of VIC BDM than me.
So, I have spotted the following
At
Melbourne, 1847 to Patrick and Ellen MURPHY #2451
Melbourne 1847 to Patrick MURPHY and Ellen STAUTON #41646
Melbourne, 1849 to Peter and Mary MURPHY #4160
Collingwood 1849 to Laurence MURPHY and Ann APELBEE #42698
Collingwood 1849 to Lawrence and Ann MURPHY #3943
Melbourne 1849 to Walter MURPHY and Mary WHELAN #42860
Melbourne 1850 to James MURPHY and Johanna SHANASSEY #43405
Melbourne 1850 to James and Johanna MURPHY, #4878
Barwon, 1850, to Patrick MURPHY and Catherine RYAN #4843
Familysearch.org may have more details displaying than the indexed info I have typed up. (I tend to use ‘less is more’ approach when searching at the following link)
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/location/1927080
So just as an example, looking at the Barwon, 1850 to Patrick Murphy and Catherine Ryan from the Vic BDM index…. I feel it is likely that would match up with baptism 24 May 1850 (not the date of birth, which is obviously earlier than that, could be months, years earlier) at St Mary of the Angels Catholic, Geelong, Vic.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5MC-BMR
The main concern with these Vic and NSW baptismal records, is simply that there’s scant family history info on them to help confirm or eliminate them from any research.
Cheers, JM
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The entry to Randwick for Wm Thomas MINTON 30 May 1877 aged 9 (he is listed ahead of his siblings, on a separate page) shows that he was
" 3067 ........... Received from Father, Thomas MINTON......."
then on the immediate next page
"3068 ....... Louis Napoleon ..... bro to Wm Thomas Minton on proceeding Folio "
and following on same page as Louis
there's Maria at folio 3069, and then at 3070, is Arabella, and it mentions that she is a sibling "to the three preceeding"
3071 is for a different Child, not connected to these four MINTON siblings.
30 May 1877, Thomas was delivering these four children to Randwick. :(
I should also mention these four were noted as "Prot" ( Protestants )
Cheers, JM
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Also, noticing that Louis N MINTON’s 1923 death registration at NSW BDM’s Canterbury district lists his parents as Thomas and Mary, so Mary was still not forgotten even in 1923. The family history info on these registrations was and still is “informant driven”, there’s no BDM cross checking undertaken to confirm the informant’s knowledge. So, someone in 1923 was reliably aware of the given names of both his parents. Sometimes, the passage of time between when a parent dies and when their adult children die, can be suggesting the loss of a reliable family member's memory of the given names of their parents.
As there was a separation from a parent or both parents back in 1877 when Louis was a young boy, someone in 1923 still accurately knew the given names for both of his parents. His Dad died in 1901. So obtaining the 1901 dc official transcription should be on a TO DO list, rather than on a WISH list, to check if he was already noted as a widower, at least, and to also check if that informant had the correct info for Mary and Thomas' marriage, and accuracy of the children's names and ages. And checking for nearby burials to Thomas' grave may be worth considering as well. (NSW BDM's include cemetery info, and are far more than just a death registration detailing the person's name and age and cause of death).
NSW State Records Office online index for Deceased Estates shows Louis Napoleon MINTON of Belmore (that’s in the Canterbury district, and a suburb of Sydney) as 1 Oct 1923, with probate 24 June 1924. His occupation noted as a drafter. (as an aside ‘drafter’ can be a legislative parliamentary function by civil servants drafting proposed laws, or the industrial positions, drafting at a Drawing Board for Architects, Civil or Structural or Mechanical Engineers, or even perhaps a Patents drafter handling drafting up inventions).
Cheers, JM
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:) to all the folk who participated in this paperchase! We still haven't found "our" Mary, although we have the birth and death certificates of her last child which show the child died from syphilis; we aren't sure whether Tom was the culprit, or Mary. Tom's earlier liaison with Margaret Calvery produced a child in 1858 which also died in the same year (Vic BDMs 2022 and 4085). We supposed that Tom might have become infected (either before or through this liaison); however, syphilis has 4 stages, viz Primary - highly infectious, lasts from 10 days to 3 mths then appears to clear; Secondary, lasts from 3 mths up to 2 years and is still infectious; Latent, remains infectious for a further 2 years, then is no longer infectious, and Tertiary which is the final stage and, without treatment can cause major damage to brain and heart leading to death. On this basis we expect that if Tom were the carrier he would be in the Latent stage and thus non-infectious by the time he married Mary. The five siblings born before the one who died were not infected (child mortality is almost guaranteed), so Mary is now the suspect, especially after the two episodes when Tom publicly refused to honour her debts, which occurred before the last child was born.
With this in mind we now think that Mary probably left Tom to live with someone else. She was catholic (marriage celebrated by a Catholic priest) - so there is no divorce (that we could find) but she may have taken another name. Trying to trace her seems next to impossible.
Along the way, however, I acquired a set of inquest papers for a Mary Murphy who died in a Rydalmere Mental Asylum (Sydney); Not our Mary, unfortunately - the lady was a teacher and left a small but useful sum to her nephew, Thomas Bullpit. Papers are fascinating reading but of no use to us so would like to hand them over to anyone who may be researching said Mr. Bullpit; or, for that matter, anyone who is interested in researching the way things were. I will be happy to forward them by post if you message to me.
Happy 2016 everyone.
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:) Mary is no longer invisible! Dishonoured, yes - probably sick and certainly ignored by her five surviving children, but due to the death from congenital syphillis of her last child, whose death certificate we obtained, we've been able to definitely place Mary in the rented home of one Edward Foley at 20 Exeter Place, off Elizabeth Street, in the part of Sydney towards Farm Cove known as the Municipal Ward of Bourke in 1882. All thanks to all of the help and advice we've been given by Root Chatters along the way. We are now hoping some kind person will look up Foley Family Trees and see if there is any mention of an Edward Foley who might conceivably be the person concerned. Mary would have been 32 or 33 in 1882, given that her Certificate of Marriage to Tom in 1867 shows her age as 18. We've tried BDM death searches (two Edward Foleys, one of whom would have been 50 in 1882; the other one seems to have been a Thomas Edward, whose birth date would make him19 in the same year). But it's always possible the Edward Foley we want moved to Sydney from elsewhere or had even migrated there. The problem is that we cannot find Mary's death Certificate. She most definitely died - probably, given the syphillis, within 5 or six years of the death of her last daughter, Maud Alice. But I've discovered the remarkable fact that NSW BDM records include 166 pages of buried individuals whose surname is unknown. Or, if we are fortunate, our Mary could be a Mary Murphy included on some Foley descendent's Family Tree, as a de facto relationship (although I doubt that, given the mores of the day). In any event, we do know where she was in 1882, and if any helpful person has any ideas about where else we should look, please respond.