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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: brigcs on Sunday 26 October 14 11:15 GMT (UK)
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This is a total long shot with very few clues.
My mother-in-law's father was a John McCormick / mack born in Ireland in approximately 1871. We know that he had a brother Charles. The story goes that when their parents died they inherited half a farm each. John married a Rosina Frost in Scotland (Rosyth or Edinburgh) in July 1917. He had 4 daughters. The youngest was born in 1931. He died in Rosyth in November 1937.
It is believed that John left a family and children Ireland.
I would be most grateful if anyone could make any suggestions regarding how I might track down our John. The name McCormick / mack is so common. We think he changed his name when he came to Scotland.
Many thanks.
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Hi
A possibility. 14 Aug 1870 John McCormick was born to James McCormick and Mary Jane NEELY
22 Feb 1874 Charles McCormick was born to James McCormick and Mary Jane NEILLY. Both births were registered in Croagh which is a sub-dictrict of Ballycastle, Co. Antrim.
Family search shows several other children. See http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e2g/
Regards
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Thank you so much for your help. I will investigate that family. You never know!
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Hi,
In case it is relevant: 5 Dec 1869 James McCormick married Mary Ann Neely in Croaghmore Presbyterian Church, Ballintoy Parish, Ballycastle. The fathers' names were Charles McCormick and James Neely.
Regards
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Thank you again. I need to know if my mother-in-law knows her Dad's birthday date. I don't think she will but her sister might.
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Hi,
I have found out a little bit more. John's parents given on his marriage certificate in 1917 are Dennis McCormack, Farmer, Deceased and Mary McCormack, also deceased. In 1917 John was a 46 year old Night Watchman in Edinburgh.
Thanks for any pointers.
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john mccormick baptism 14 aug 1870
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john mccormick baptism 14 aug 1870
Since you haven't included place or parents it is difficult to know if this is the correct John McCormick/McCormack.
The one posted in reply #1 has different names for parents than OP last posted in 2014 (from John's marriage certificate)-
Hi, I have found out a little bit more. John's parents given on his marriage certificate in 1917 are Dennis McCormack, Farmer, Deceased and Mary McCormack, also deceased. In 1917 John was a 46 year old Night Watchman in Edinburgh.
Thanks for any pointers.
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John Mccormick BORN 31 AUG 1863 Killygordon. Co Donegal . Parents Denis mcccormick 1841-1916 and Mary mulhairn/mulherrin 1834 -1905 They married 16 NOV 1862. John is in 1901 Scottish census with first wife Susan Harley. living in ayr . You need to access 1911 Scottish census to find them again . of course the 100 year rule applies so it would be free til 2021.
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Thank you for your kind reply. That’s certainly the John I am looking for. Susan Harley disappeared from John’s life. As yet I haven’t found a death. He married Rosina Frost in Edinburgh in 1917. My task of the moment is trying to take him back from his parents as my MIL has many DNA matches that clearly match her father.
Best wishes and thank you again.
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Good evening.
I might’ve had a break through with this family tonight but try as I might I can’t find marriages or births as evidence.
I have found an Annie McCormick born Dec 1904 in a tree. No parents are given but she goes on to have a daughter Marjorie Harley Breen. JohnMcCormick’s first wife was Susan Harley. The daughter then married somebody who had a child that is a strong DNA match to my Mum-in-law. Can anyone see Annie in Co. Donegal? I am hoping to find siblings. They could’ve been in Scotland and certainly ended up in England.
Many thanks for any help you can give me.
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Here is Dennis, I think in 1911 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Gleneely/Gleneely/508184/
And 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Gleneely/Gleneely/1198382/
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Death of Dennis McCormack
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05237/4450759.pdf
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Thank you. That’s definitely the family. I am trying to do 2 things.
1.Work out the parents of Denis McCormick and his wife Mary Mulherin
2. Find out what happened to their son John after he married Susan Harley. I think I have found that they had a daughter Annie in 1904 but can’t find her birth, or anything about her until 1939.
I am struggling with Donegal, Scotland and England in the mix.
Many thanks.
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2. Find out what happened to their son John after he married Susan Harley. I think I have found that they had a daughter Annie in 1904 but can’t find her birth, or anything about her until 1939.
Maybe tell us what you found out 'about her'?
I think it's possible Annie could be her middle name i.e. Mary Ann?...
Marriage Dec 1930 Breen Leslie A A - Mary McCormick Liverpool 8b 254
* Birth of a/their daughter - Dec 1937 B***n M******* H - McCormick (mms) Kettering (Northampton) 3b 170
* Possibly still living
Annie
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Annie,
That Breen/McCormick family remain in the Liverpool area.
1939 register shows the family brigcs refers to and there are birth/marriage and death records for Marjorie Harley Breen.
If Marjorie is of the right family, there is a published tree showing the first child was born in 1936 and the parents were William Breen and Annie McCormick.
There is no birth or marriage information shown for them.
Heywood
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Thank you so much Annie and Heywood. That’s the family I am investigating. I came across them almost by accident yesterday late in the day and never thought of Annie as Mary Ann. I might well have found my Mum-in-law a half sister. Today’s task is to find out if John McCormick and Susan Harley had more children. Strangely the first child of his second marriage was also a Mary.
Heywood, is the tree on Ancestry?
Again many thanks to you both.
Brigcs
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There is a Birth here - Annie McCormick 1905 - date doesn’t match birth date shown on the Annie Breen records.
Father is Peter McCormick and mother ‘Magey’ Harley ???
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01784/1700694.pdf
I can’t see them in 1911 nor a marriage at the moment.
However, if John and Susan are definitely your family, this won’t be your Annie.
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Here is that family in 1911 - mother of Annie is Madge.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Annagary/Annagary/488377/
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Wow. Thank you. That could well be who I am looking for. I am not sure how a Susan becomes a Madge but then we have a family member that we call something different.
John had a brother Peter, I wonder...
There has always a mystery involved with John McCormick. It’s not known why he left Ireland. A daughter from his 2nd marriage went there and had a door slammed in her face. The children of the 2nd marriage knew they had to say they were McCormack and not mick.
Thank you, I am so grateful for any information I can find. I can see what I am going to be doing all day today. Brigcs
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The birth of Magey Harley - 1876 - parents James and Ann
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03069/2125059.pdf
Susan states 24 yrs on marriage - born about 1867. Her father is James and her place of residence, Dromore. She could have been working there perhaps.
1901 census, Scotland gives birth year abt 1869.
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Hi,
I reckon that’s my girl. Maybe she just preferred the name Susan.
The marriage of John McCormack and Susan Harley took place on 10th May 1891 at the Crossroads Chapel, Killygordon. She was 24, John was 27. Her father was James Harley and address is given as Dromore.
I have never been sure of that 1901 Scottish census.
I have been hunting for the Harley’s in the 1901 census but can’t see them. Time to put down the iPad!
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I would take all this slowly. There is nothing proven yet. Why would she go back home and use a different name?
What information do you have about John after his marriage to Susan, if he is your ancestor?
Where is he in 1901 and 1911?
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John is my Mother-in-law’s father. Denis is given as the name of his father on both of his wedding certificates. What started me off on this last night was noting that a DNA match to my Mum in law of 341cM has an unattached tree. His Grandmother was an Annie McCormick. I have messaged the match but previously I haven’t received replies.
I have never traced what happened to Susan Harley, wife no. 1. Maybe she did a runner, taking the kids. My Father-in-law’s parents certainly did, they didn’t bother to take the kid. One trotted to Australia, remarried and had more children. The mother took me 15 years to grace to South Africa where she remarried and had more children. For 15 years my Father-in-law and I discussed how his Gran could’ve “dumped” his Father. Sadly my Father-in-law had severe dementia before I found the answers. I really want to clarify the Harley / McCormick relationship before it’s too late to tell my Mum-in-law. Don’t worry I am not rushing, I have all the time in the World.
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Sorry Heywood I didn’t answer your questions. We don’t know where John was in 1901 or 1911. In 1901 they could be the John and Susan in Ayr. In 1911 I have no idea. In 1916 he’s working at Rosyth Dockyard and 1917 he got married in Edinburgh. Mum-in-law is a child of the 2nd marriage. He died in Rosyth in 1937. Brigcs
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That Breen/McCormick family remain in the Liverpool area.
1939 register shows the family brigcs refers to and there are birth/marriage and death records for Marjorie Harley Breen.
Thanks Heywood,
The difference in places i.e. Kettering (birth) / Liverpool (marriage) & Mary rather than Annie as mother (hence maybe Mary Ann) were a wonder being so far apart although I didn't check any further at that point.
brigcs, what info. is on the 1901 census in Ayr re John & Susan?
Annie
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If I recall, the couple in Ayr has no children with them - unusual after 9 yrs of marriage and they are both farm servants.
Looking at the Harley family in Annagary, they seem to be James Harley and Ann/Nancy Harley from the children I can see.
So, if it were the right James (father of Susan from marriage certificate) then there might be a family relationship between the parents.
There are quite a few Harleys in Annagary.
I can’t see a birth for Susan.
For the children in 1911, I can only see that birth for Annie - not the others. It’s all a bit strange.
Hopefully, someone else might spot them.
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John is my Mother-in-law’s father. Denis is given as the name of his father on both of his wedding certificates. What started me off on this last night was noting that a DNA match to my Mum in law of 341cM has an unattached tree. His Grandmother was an Annie McCormick. I have messaged the match but previously I haven’t received replies.
Have you tried shared matches between your mum in law and Annie McCormick?
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John's parents given on his marriage certificate in 1917 are Dennis McCormack, Farmer, Deceased and Mary McCormack, also deceased. In 1917 John was a 46 year old Night Watchman in Edinburgh.
Does the marriage not give the maiden name of Mary to confirm it's Mulherin?
Annie
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If I recall, the couple in Ayr has no children with them - unusual after 9 yrs of marriage and they are both farm servants.
Are both stated to be married?
What are the names of the children?
Edit...I think I've found one named Jane who married twice & died 1979 Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland
Annie
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John McCormick / mack died in Rosyth in November 1937.
What info. is on his DC, does it name his parents &/or mention a previous wife?
Annie
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I am bothered that we are going off track here.
Scotland’s People shows this marriage
1902 Ayr
Peter McCormick and Margery Harley
So Ayr looks good for John and Susan in 1901
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Thanks Heywood and Annie for all your messages today.
Heywood your message that I just read about a Peter McCormick marrying a Margery Harley makes me think that the Madge with the children in 1911 was potentially a sister of the Susan I have been hunting for. Earlier you mentioned that it was odd that John and Susan in Ayr in 1901 had been married for 9 years and didn’t have children, I had thought that too.
Annie you asked about certificate evidence of John’s Mum’s maiden name. The only place I have it is on an online baptism record and the records of his siblings. On his Irish wedding certificate it doesn’t give the mother’s name. On the Scottish one it says Mary McCormack. The Jane in Kirkcaldy might be of interest as that’s not far away from Rosyth. I have a short death certificate and Obituary but neither mention family.
Thank you to you both for helping me, you have given me food for thought. If I am lucky the match will reply to my email.
Very best wishes Brigcs
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You’ll have to scrutinise it and map it out.
If John and Susan had no children, and Annie is the daughter of Peter and Madge then your mum in law’s match would be through McCormack.
I think you said m-i-l is from 2nd marriage anyway so there would likely be no match through the Harleys.
Are there any shared matches between mum in law and Annie’s descendant?
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The evident match is between MIL and Annie’s Grandchild but that person matches lots of our family. If Peter was Annie’s Dad that makes Annie
MIL’s cousin.
Thank you again Annie and Heywood. Your insight has been so helpful. Brigcs
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The evident match is between MIL and Annie’s Grandchild but that person matches lots of our family. If Peter was Annie’s Dad that makes Annie
MIL’s cousin.
Thank you again Annie and Heywood. Your insight has been so helpful. Brigcs
Yes, I think that’s what I meant but the match would be from the McCormick line. I think it was the emphasis on Susan Harley that muddled it a bit.