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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Swally on Tuesday 21 October 14 17:04 BST (UK)
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Guys,
I am compiling a book of those who fell in the Great War from the districts above.
I am looking for information on the following guys -
Patrick Brawley – Private Connaught Rangers
Alex McDonald – 12 Brown Street, Newmains - Glasgow Highlanders
George Richardson 24, Furnace Row, Newmains - Glasgow Highlanders
Alex Wilson 33, Loch View-Highland Light Infantry
William Bell Private Cambusnethan Street - Royal Scots Fusiliers
William Brownlie 116 Cambusnethan Street, Royal Air Force
Any help on these guys would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Swally
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Hi Swally,
Have a look at the Scottish War Memorials & War Graves Projects sites, you might find some bits and pieces there.
See:
Memorials: http://warmemscot.s4.bizhat.com/index.php?mforum=warmemscot
Graves: http://scottishwargraves.phpbbweb.com/index.php?sid=956faee7b6fbb7e5d2ff35518b70e9cf&mforum=scottishwargraves
Anne :)
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Hi
You don't say where you have looked already. For example, I take it you have tried the obvious CWGC and SNWM sites?
Imber
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I have checked CWGC also a disk by Naval Press with 75, 000 names, Scottish war graves site, searched Google with their name regiment and Cambusnethan / Newmains
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Guys,
I am compiling a book of those who fell in the Great War from the districts above.
I am looking for information on the following guys -
Patrick Brawley – Private Connaught Rangers
Alex McDonald – 12 Brown Street, Newmains - Glasgow Highlanders
George Richardson 24, Furnace Row, Newmains - Glasgow Highlanders
Alex Wilson 33, Loch View-Highland Light Infantry
William Bell Private Cambusnethan Street - Royal Scots Fusiliers
William Brownlie 116 Cambusnethan Street, Royal Air Force
Any help on these guys would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Swally
What is the source of the list of names?
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Are you researching all the names on the memorials or have just listed a few that you are stuck with?
2nd Lieut. Gilbert McClelland Kennedy of Cambusnethan was killed in action 15 June 1915. He was born in Aghadowey and I collected material on the family when doing research on our local memorial.
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This guy has published a lot of books on the fallen of Lanarkshire
http://www.motherwelltimes.co.uk/news/local-headlines/keeping-alive-memories-of-our-fallen-heroes-1-3262809
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Where did you find Patrick Brawley's details? Was it a memorial, or elsewhere?
Imber
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The source of the names is a booklet that was published in the early 2 called the Cambusnethan Parish Roll Of Honour . Patrick Bradley is listed as killed, I have since found out he didn't die, he emigrated to Canada. It my have been one of the other Brawlers. Thanks
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Thanks, I am compiling this book in conjunction with Joe
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I assume he doesn't have these soldiers in any of his books.
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I'm not clear what you are saying about Brawley? The one who went to Canada was in the Royal Field Artillery.
Imber
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It is not unusual for them to switch batts, I have his medal index card and there is no mention of him being KIA. A friend has his Service Record which is on Ancestry and gives his home address as Newmains
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Sorry, I'm still confused. The first name you listed was Patrick Brawley, Connaught Rangers. Then you said he wasn't killed but went to Canada. I've looked at the Cambusnethan Roll of Honour. It lists two Patrick Brawleys. The one listed as in the Connaught Rangers is shown as "killed or died"in the remarks column. The second Patrick Brawley is listed as RFA. The remarks column for him is blank. This second Brawley is the one who emigrated to Canada after the war. So doesn't that mean you are still looking for Patrick Brawley, Connaught Rangers?
Imber
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Think my earlier comment got lost :-\
Are you researching all the names on the memorials or have just listed a few that you are stuck with?
2nd Lieut. Gilbert McClelland Kennedy of Cambusnethan was killed in action 15 June 1915. He was born in Aghadowey and I collected material on the family when doing research on our local memorial.
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Sorry, I'm still confused. The first name you listed was Patrick Brawley, Connaught Rangers. Then you said he wasn't killed but went to Canada. I've looked at the Cambusnethan Roll of Honour. It lists two Patrick Brawleys. The one listed as in the Connaught Rangers is shown as "killed or died"in the remarks column. The second Patrick Brawley is listed as RFA. The remarks column for him is blank. This second Brawley is the one who emigrated to Canada after the war. So doesn't that mean you are still looking for Patrick Brawley, Connaught Rangers?
Imber
In the book I have, in the Newmains part -
Brawley Daniel - 12, Store Row RFA
Brawley Hugh - 3, Main St HLI
Brawley James - 3, Main Street RND (Royal Naval Division)
Brawley Patrick - 3, Main Street RFA
Brawley James - 12, Brown Street, DG
*Patrick Brawley - 12, Manse Road Con Rangers
Matthew Brawley - 7, Barries Stables, Con Rangers
I have the medal index card of Patrick Brawley 12, Manse Road, Connaught Rangers and there is no mention of him being killed in action, yet he has an asterix denoting he was killed in action. I have searched Commonwealth War Graves, Scottish War Graves and and also the Naval Press cd that names some 750, 000 of those who fell, yet I can find no sign of him. I asked a lady on Rootschat to look for his service record, and she told me she had found the record and also his emigration papers. I take it you can prove differently?
Regards
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Think my earlier comment got lost :-\
Are you researching all the names on the memorials or have just listed a few that you are stuck with?
2nd Lieut. Gilbert McClelland Kennedy of Cambusnethan was killed in action 15 June 1915. He was born in and I collected material on the family when doing research on our local memorial.
Aghadowey
I don't have his name in the Roll of Honour Book under Cambusnethan, Newmains or Morningside. Can you send me further details and I'll have him included.
Thanks,
Swally
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The 1901 census has a Patrick Brawley aged 16 living at 12 Brown Street and no James who could have fought in the war
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Hi Swally,
I have come across another anomaly re the names on the memorial at Newmains Cross. As an Armit researcher I discovered that the brother of David Armit who is named on the memorial was omitted. He was Thomas Armit S/16033, 2nd Bn., Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders who died 24 April 1917. I was able to establish that he enlisted in Partick not Wishaw and that maybe that was the reason for the omission though his death was reported in the Wishaw Press 25 May 1917. It would be nice to see him named in your book alongside his brother and cousins (David & Ebenezer McNeill, Samuel Murray and Adam Armit)
It's probably also worth mentioning Sgt James Armit DCM who died of Bronchietasis (believed to be attributed to being gassed during war service) who died in 1936 aged 43. I believe that he does not have so much as a headstone on his grave at Cambusnethan and as we commemorate those who gave their lives in the Great War and those who achieved such heroic feats it's a shame that more is not done to recognise them.
I wish you every success with your book and would be grateful if you'd let the Lanarkshire board know when it's published and available.
Sage
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I've looked again at the only service record I can find for a Patrick Brawley. This one gives his home address as 3 Main Street. There's some correspondence from Patrick on the file from an address in Montreal. His regiment is shown as RFA.
I looked again at the Medal Index Card for Patrick Brawley, Connaught Rangers. It bears the comment "Class Z". That denotes that he was placed in the Army Reserve, subject to recall, at discharge at the end of the war.
You mention an asterisk which indicated KIA. Where did you see that?
Imber
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The 1901 census has 3 Patrick Brawleys shown as born Newmains and living in Cambusnethan. Years of birth are
Abt 1885 living at 12 Brown Street - parents James and Sarah
Abt 1892 living at 12 New Row - parents Peter and Catherine
Abt 1894 living at 3 Main Street - parents Daniel and Helen
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Sage wrote
"It's probably also worth mentioning Sgt James Armit DCM who died of Bronchietasis (believed to be attributed to being gassed during war service) who died in 1936 aged 43. I believe that he does not have so much as a headstone on his grave at Cambusnethan and as we commemorate those who gave their lives in the Great War and those who achieved such heroic feats it's a shame that more is not done to recognise them."
I had someone who also died after the war with a war related illness. If you can find a copy of the death certificate, I suggest you send that and all relevant information to the "In from the cold project" They can investigate further and, if its proved that death was related to the war, they can forward all the details to CWGC. They then can recognise your man.
After several years I was able to have a CWGC Gravestone erected in Old Monkland cemetery on the site of the family lair. Really proud to have achieved that after such a long time and now I can place a Poppy cross there every year.
Morag.
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CWGC will only erect headstones for deaths within a qualifying period and after the Great War that ends on 31 August 1921. If someone leaves the services and their later death can be shown as attributable to war service then they can qualify for war graves treatment but only if their death is within that qualifying period.
Imber
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Which memorial is Patrick Brawley named on?
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You mention an asterisk which indicated KIA. Where did you see that?
Imber,
The asterix is against his name on the left hand side, there is a key to the symbols at the bottom of the page.
Swally
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Here is what I have
2nd Lieutenant KENNEDY Gilbert McL. Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 6th Bn.
Gilbert was killed in action on 16/18th* June 1915 during the Second
Action of Givenchy which was part of the Battle of Festubert.
In his history of the Cameronians, Colonel H.H. Story, M.C. records how
The night before the attack planned for 15th June, the enemy were heard to
shout from their trenches – “Come on, Jocks; we are waiting for you.”
When zero hour came the first waves went over the parapet – 2/Lieutenant
J.C.E. Hay led his bombing party across no mans land and into the German
front line. Another officer, 2/Lieutenant G.C. Macdonald, was soon killed,
but his men forced their way into the enemy’s line – nothing but grim
determination to close with the enemy, notes Col. Story “ could have carried
the men forward in the face of such massacre” The history of the 51st Division records how the men plunged into the enemy wire – lacerating their flesh till they fell.” The German second line was captured but at great cost. Only three officers remained untouched. The battalion held their gains until relieved around 4 a.m. on 16th June and marched to Le Touret where the roll was called. Colonel Story records that out of a strength of 705 only 357 remained. The following officers were killed in this action, - Major D.P.Shaw, Lieutenant P.H.Keith; Second Lieutenants J.B. Wilson, C.G. Macdonald, and G.M. McL. Kennedy.
Gilbert was 20 years of age and was part of 154th Brigade 51st Highland Division and was the son of the Reverend Gilbert A.K. M.A. and Mrs Kennedy Marse, of Cambusnethan. Lt. Kennedy was studying at Glasgow University when war broke out and pleaded with his father to be allowed to join the army right away, with great reluctance the Reverend Kennedy gave his consent, and Gilbert junior joined the Royal Army Medical Corps as a private, although some time had elapsed since ending his studies he later sat and passed his exams. Subsequently he was commissioned into the Cameronians. He was given charge of a draft of men and to the Ardeer Munitions factories on guard duty when the last of the explosions which had take place in that dangerous establishment blew him out of his bed, gladly he escaped serious injury.
He was then sent to France and took part in the heavy fighting that took place at that time, but sadly was killed only two months after arriving in France.
2nd Lieutenant Kennedy has no known grave and is commemorated on –
LE TOURET MEMORIAL, France. Panel 15 and 16.
*The Commonwealth records state that Gilbert was killed between 16th and 18th June.
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Glasgow University Roll of Honour.
2nd Lieutenant Gilbert Mcclelland Kennedy
Rank: 2nd Lieutenant
Regiment: 6th Cameronians - Scottish Rifles
Degree: Student
Awards: N/A
Comments: Killed in action
Note/Press Clipping: N/A
Photograph ID: N/A
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Help me out here someone please - I thought this was about Patrick Brawley?
I'm not getting where Gilbert Kennedy fits in. What am I missing?
Anne :-\
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Confusing or what? ::)
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Help me out here someone please - I thought this was about Patrick Brawley?
I'm not getting where Gilbert Kennedy fits in. What am I missing?
Anne :-\
Reply #16
Do try to keep up Anne
;D :P
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As regards Patrick Brawley I don't see the asterisk mentioned on this record:
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=31471A884E56A78D!135&ithint=file%2cpdf&app=WordPdf&wdo=2&authkey=!AMt0YsACTyT2TlE
You have to download it to be able to read the names.
Imber
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Thanks for directing me to reply No. 16 Sancti. ;D
I had read through the whole thread a couple of times, doing so again before posting this and I still can't see where Gilbert Kennedy comes in apart from having Cambusnethan as his residence and possibly being missed off a local R.o.H.
So ....... still confused as I thought we were trying to establish exactly who Patrick Brawley was. :-\
Anne
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A Patrick Brawley died in Scotland in 1970 aged 78. We've already established that two Patricks were born in Newmains in 1892 and 1894. There were no others born in Scotland around that time. The 1894 one emigrated to Canada. My conclusion is that Patrick Brawley (ie 12 Manse Road, born 1892) died in 1970 and not in the Great War.
Imber
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A Patrick Brawley died in Scotland in 1970 aged 78. We've already established that two Patricks were born in Newmains in 1892 and 1894. There were no others born in Scotland around that time. The 1894 one emigrated to Canada. My conclusion is that Patrick Brawley (ie 12 Manse Road, born 1892) died in 1970 and not in the Great War.
Imber,
When did you find out about the one who died in 1970? Where did he die?
What I was saying all along was I suspected there was an error on the pamphlet all along........unless someone could prove different
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Aghadowey,
Gilbert Kennedy is remembered on the memorial within the grounds of Cambusnethan Old Parish Church, Kirk Road, Wishaw.
Here is the link
http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/169.html
& all the names here http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/Indexes/cambusnethan.html
Many thanks,
Swally
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I found the 1970 death of a Patrick Brawley on Scotlandspeople. Cannot establish the exact place of death without paying out but the Registration District was Motherwell and Wishaw.
Imber
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I am looking for information on the following guys -
Patrick Brawley – Private Connaught Rangers
Alex McDonald – 12 Brown Street, Newmains - Glasgow Highlanders
George Richardson 24, Furnace Row, Newmains - Glasgow Highlanders
Alex Wilson 33, Loch View-Highland Light Infantry
William Bell Private Cambusnethan Street - Royal Scots Fusiliers
William Brownlie 116 Cambusnethan Street, Royal Air Force
Guys,
I have established through the forum that Patrick Brawley survivec and that there must be a typo in the Cambusnethan Roll of Honour book.
George Richardson, there are two who fit the bill but no addresses on the CWGC web site to help narrow it down.
Alex Wilson of Loch View I am no further forward.
William Bell I managed to get.
William Brownlie because he was RAF I can't find.
Thanks
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I'm so pleased you found that helpful.
Imber
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The 1901 census has 3 Patrick Brawleys shown as born Newmains and living in Cambusnethan. Years of birth are
Abt 1885 living at 12 Brown Street - parents James and Sarah
Abt 1892 living at 12 New Row - parents Peter and Catherine
Abt 1894 living at 3 Main Street - parents Daniel and Helen
I've just come across this post. The Patrick Brawley from Brown Street is the uncle of the other two. His parents, James and Sarah, had 10 children and Patrick was the youngest. He was born in 1884. He emigrated to America before the war. His brother, Daniel also had 10 children, 5 of whom emigrated to Canada- Patrick being one of them.
Peter had 13 children. His son, Patrick died in Lanarkshire in 1970.
The brothers Daniel and Peter married sisters Helen (Ellen) and Catherine Keenan.
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hello, I may be late in joining this, and maybe you have found this already...
regards: Thomas Armit S/16033, 2nd Bn., Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders who died 24 April 1917.
he is listed on the war memorial at Govan Old Parish Church, Govan
(http://)
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Hi Bren,
Thanks for posting the photo of the war memorial plaque at Govan Church. I hadn't seen that before and am delighted that both Armit brothers are recorded on the plaque. I could never understand why only David was on the Cambusnethan memorial and not Tom as that was their home town. In 1911 Tom was living and working in Govan where his sister was living so that was the area in which he enlisted. I'm glad his war effort was acknowledged within one district if not the other.
Regards, Sage.
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your welcome
pardon my shameless plug, I am a Volunteer Guide/Researcher at The Govan Stones/Govan Old Parish Church we normally close for the winter at Halloween, this year we are only having a limited season from the end of Sept to the end of November, Fridays and Saturdays
there is a family grave in the graveyard that memorializes a son who died in WWI, when I googled him I found an obituary complete with photo, that really brought the story alive
also remember that Govan Parish crossed the river and included Partick and Hillhead, which explains why old school buildings have Govan Parish School Board carved in big letters
of the names on the WWI plaque, I have found some info on about half of them