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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: queenie3 on Sunday 19 October 14 04:13 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find out when Odine Monrath and Clementina Josephine Monrath emigrated to New Zealand. I know when they married [Odine - 1890 to James McColl and Clementina 1884 to William Woodward] and I am slowly tracking down their children but I have got stuck in regard their origins and when they arrived in NZ. If there is any kind soul out in Roots Chat land who can help me I would be grateful.
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Hello...
1873 into Auckland aboard the Berar
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11680-90588-72?cc=1609792 (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11680-90588-72?cc=1609792)
Mother (Julie), daughter (Clementine) and.... grandchildren?
I can't find a birth for Odine or Carl. Reasonably sure that Julie is their grandmother as her husband Sophus died in the 1850's and there's no obvious re-marriage. I'm not too sure if Clementine is their mother.
EDIT: 1869 register for Trinitatis parish in Copenhagen has Clementine as Odine's mother. Father is Hans Peter RIEVERS. They are not married. No mention that I can see of an 1872/73 birth for Carl.
Out of interest, Julie and family were nominated migrants. It's mentioned in the "Remarks" column on the far right of the passenger list. According to Archway the 1873 ledger to which the column refers still exists. Might be worth a look to see who nominated them. Maybe Johanne Mathilde, later ALEXANDER. Maybe not.
Nominated immigrants - list of passage orders
http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=18365419 (http://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=18365419)
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The family origins are pretty much covered on various trees on geni.com....
http://www.geni.com/people/Juliane-Marott/6000000015616511203 (http://www.geni.com/people/Juliane-Marott/6000000015616511203)
...but just be aware that in several Danish records the family name is given as MONRAD, not MONRATH. Specifically the 1840, 1850 and 1860 censuses.
Regards
Beg
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"and I am slowly tracking down their children"
1892/5258 McColl Mabel Agnes Odine James
1893/9363 McColl Odine Hilda Odine James -
1892/5259 McColl Adelaide Josephine Odine James -
1898/14397 McColl Evelyn Odine James
From:
www.dia.govt.nz/births-deaths-and-marriages
Minniehaha.
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And birth for Clementin(e/a) Woodward.........
1888/509 Woodward Kenneth Isaac Clementine Josephine William Isaac
Minniehaha.
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Oh - Is that twins - Mabel 1892 and Adelaide 1892? Many thanks. I can't imagine how I missed the births I have only been on BDM all afternoon - ??? - talk about not seeing what is right in front of you.
This is truly marvellous :)
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In 'Papers Past' there is a description of the voyage from London of the 'Berar' which you may find interesting. ['Auckland Star' dated 3.9.1873.]
The Monrath family are shown here as:
Julie, 54.
Clementine, 23.
Odena, 3.
Carl, 1.
Also the marriage of Clementine Josephine, daughter of the late S. Monrath, Esq., of Copenhagen.
['Auckland Star', dated 12.7.1884.]
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
Minniehaha.
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Yes, Mabel & Adelaide were twins. D.o.b. was 27.4.1892.
Minniehaha.
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I can't find a birth for Odine or Carl.
Regards
Beg
According to a tree on the Ancestry website, Odine MONRATH, was born in 1869 in Trinitatis, Kobenhavn, Denmark. Carl born 1872 in Demark.
When has your end of stick been wrong Beg? ;D :D
Cheers
KHP
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Clementine Josephine Woodward died in 1925, aged 75 years.
Her probated will (1926) is held at Wellington archives.
www.archway.archives.govt.nz
Minniehaha.
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Kenneth Isaac WOODWARD married Elizabeth Anne Clarke in 1914...........
Minniehaha.
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Re the McColl Children:
Evelyn married Archibald Francis Augustus MacCurdy, 1921.
Adelaide Josephine married John Carmody, 1923.
Mabel Agnes married Eric Hay, 1915.
Odine Hilda married Norman Wakefield Blackie, 1923.
Minniehaha.
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Clementine Josephine Woodward died in 1925, aged 75 years.
Minniehaha.
Buried at Purewa Cemetery. The death notice will give you names of issue if any.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k5l/
Surname WOODWARD
First Names Clementine Josephine
Age 75 Years
Date of Death 27 Jul 1925
Serial No 8778
Date of Service and/or Interment 29 Jul 1925
Funeral Director Sibuns Funeral Advisors, 582 Remuera Road, Remuera, AUCKLAND
What Buried? Body
Cemetery Purewa Cemetery
Location Block A Row 31 Plot 78
Cheers
KHP
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Clementine's death notice in the 'Auckland Star' dated 27.7.1925. Just mentions her husband, William Isaac Woodward.
Minniehaha.
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William Isaac Woodward died on the 8th October 1939, aged 81 years. He is also at Purewa, the link I gave you in Reply #11.
Cheers
KHP
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Clementine's death notice in the 'Auckland Star' dated 27.7.1925. Just mentions her husband, William Isaac Woodward.
Minniehaha.
Of course, notices before 1955 were short and sweet and didn't mention children, my fault, a slip of the brain matter :P
Cheers
KHP
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Evelyn MacCurdy (nee McColl) died 1964, aged 63 years.
Adelaide Josephine Carmody (nee McColl) died 1977, date of birth- 27.4.1892.
Mabel Agnes Hay (nee McColl) died 1988, date of birth- 27.4.1892.
Odine Hilda Blackie (nee McColl) died 1989, date of birth- 13.6.1893.
Minniehaha.
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According to a tree on the Ancestry website, Odine MONRATH, was born in 1869 in Trinitatis, Kobenhavn, Denmark. Carl born 1872 in Demark.
Ooops... silly me. I forgot I'd already found Odine's birth on FamilySearch. One of those trees on geni.com had mentioned Hans Peter RIEVERS and I'd gone looking for him.
Thanks KHP :)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYP7-6BK (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYP7-6BK)
Regards
Beg
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Probated will (1983) held @ Auckland archives for Norman Wakefield Blackie, of Tauranga, clerk.
Probated will (1977) held for Adelaide Josephine Carmody at Wellington archives, from Nelson High Court.
WW1 file held at archives Wellington for Archibald Francis Augustus MacCurdy. May be viewed and/or downloaded.
Minniehaha.
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www.tauranga.govt.nz
Plot Id: PYES PA*AB8320
Warrant Id: AB8320
Warrant Type: ASH BURIAL
Ashes:
First name: ODINE HILDA
Surname: BLACKIE
Date of Birth:
Age: 96
Date of Death: 01/11/1989
Burial/Cremation Date: 04 NOV 1989
Funeral Director: JONES AND COMPANY FUNERAL SERVICES
Cemetery: PYES PA
Block: PYES PA (A
Row: E2
Plot Location: 186
There is a photograph of the headstone at the above website........
Minniehaha.
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Record No: WKNG25011
Family Name: CARMODY Age: 85 years
Given Names: ADELAIDE JOSEPHINE Date Deceased:
Address: Interment Date: 2/04/1977
Gender: F
Area: NEW GENERAL
Cemetery: Wakapuaka
Plot 011
Block: 25
Type: Interment
Funeral Director: P. DAY & SONS
Notes PURCH. 11/12/1951
A J
P DAY & SON / NEW GEN.
Date of Purchase reviewed 22/05/2002
From Nelson cemeteries database..........
Minniehaha.
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Mabel Agnes HAY (nee McColl)..........
BURIAL & CREMATION DETAILS
Surname HAY
First Names Mabel Agnes
Age 95 Years
Gender Female
Date of Death 25 Jan 1988
Religion Anglican
Serial No 54689
Date of Service and/or Interment 27 Jan 1988
Type Of Service
Funeral Director Fountain Funeral Services, P O Box 341, Papakura, AUCKLAND
Ashes Disposal Interred
Book Of Remembrance No
Purewa Cemetery..
www.purewa.co.nz
Minniehaha.
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Clementine Josephine Woodward died in 1925, aged 75 years.
Her probated will (1926) is held at Wellington archives.
Already digitised...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01dm9/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01dm9/)
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A snippet about the musical ability of Miss Odine Monrath from Denmark.........
'Auckland Star' dated 14.7.1881.
[Papers Past website details given in reply #5.]
Minniehaha.
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Hi MINNIHAHA
You are a star! You have found out so much information.
Did you find out anything about Charles Monrath Woodward married Polly Hoff 1896? He is my mystery man. I feel - but have no way of knowing for sure - that he may be Clementina's son Carl.If he took his stepfather William Isaac Woodwards' surname then I may be able to link him into the family. One of his children - Odine Clementina Woodward born 1902 [the name is a dead giveaway isn't it ?] married John William Wardle in 1920 - widowed 1928- remarried Francis Fuller Adam in 1929 - died in 1936 age 33. That is my cousins line. Of course it is so hard to find out how many children -possibly three by first marriage and I know she had two or three by second marriage - not sure whether it is two or three? Children were fostered out after Odine's death. I think it is time to invest in some certificates - marriages and death to see what that shows up. Many thanks.
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It is better to buy "printouts" rather than certificates as they usually have more information, being a copy of the entry in the register,death printouts are only as good as the informant.
Cheers Janette
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Did you find out anything about Charles Monrath Woodward married Polly Hoff 1896? He is my mystery man. I feel - but have no way of knowing for sure - that he may be Clementina's son Carl.
As mentioned in my Reply #7 there is a tree for the family on the Ancestry Website .... it shows that Charles Monrath Woodward AKA Carl Monrath is the son of Herman and Clementine Josephine Monrath. As mentioned earlier in Reply #5 by Minniehaha, he is down on the passenger list as Carl aged 1.
Cheers
KHP
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The BDM on line marriage index shows Charles Mowatt WOODWARD marrying Polly HOFF in 1896.
An error??
Minniehaha.
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Looks like an transcription error Minnie, on Marriage Disc and Kiwi Index it is definitely Charles Monrath Woodward.
Cheers
KHP
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Charles Monrath Woodward AKA Carl Monrath is the son of Herman and Clementine Josephine Monrath.
Hi KHP :)
I saw "Herman Monrath" mentioned in PapersPast in Odine's 1890 marriage notice...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e0n/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01e0n/)
...and I've also seen Odine's 1869 birth register entry so "Herman" is actually Hans Peter RIEVERS.
I wasn't aware you'd seen Herman in a tree for Carl/Charles. Are there any sources mentioned, specifically d.o.b or parish.
I'm half of the opinion that Carl wasn't born in Denmark simply because LDS have Denmark in that period pretty much sorted. I'm wondering if Carl was born en route to London from (possibly) Hamburg, hence the "Germany" in the passenger list.
Regards
Beg
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I too was wondering about the mystery Herman - and Hans Peter Rievers. The reason for emigrating to the other side of the world is Hans Rievers - possibly he was already married - this would be the main reason for him not to marry the mother of his children.
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I wasn't aware you'd seen Herman in a tree for Carl/Charles. Are there any sources mentioned, specifically d.o.b or parish.
Regards
Beg
DOB mentioned in Reply # 7 - 1872
Cheers
KHP
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Queenie, I notice the tree owner is one that I have had contact with, regarding one of my trees, would you like me to see if they would contact you about the family?
Cheers
KHP
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Hi KHP
I would be very pleased if this person wanted to make contact with me.
I am working on behalf of four cousins [whose dear mother had died] and they are interested in finding out more about her family line.
Thank you very much. :)
Queenie
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Queenie, could you please send me your email addy by PM so I can pass it on :D
Cheers
KHP
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Message has been sent to the tree owner. :D
Cheers
KHP
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DOB mentioned in Reply # 7 - 1872
That's a y.o.b, not a d.o.b :-)
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Oopsy woo ;D Should have cleaned me ears out ;D
Cheers
KHP
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[...] Sophus died in the 1850's
Sophus MONRATH d.4 December 1852 in Vålse, Denmark
Low quality:
http://tinyurl.com/me5qdoz (http://tinyurl.com/me5qdoz)
Entry no.11
High quality (Java required):
http://tinyurl.com/m7pudur (http://tinyurl.com/m7pudur)
Vælg arkivalietypr her: Kirkebøger
Vælg amt: Maribo
Vælg herred: Falster Nørre
Vælg sogn: Vålse
Vålse (Ny udgave) 1846 - 1859
Opslag 169
Entry no.11
Regards
Beg
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Beg Clonrode
Many thanks. :)
To all the many people who have helped - you are kindness itself. :)
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I am descended from the Monraths. My Grandmother Odine was the daughter of Odine Clementine Josephine Monrath Woodward (Daughter of Karl Monrath aka Charles Woodward and Polly Hoff) and her first Marriage to John William Wardle.
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Hello
I started looking into the Monrath line in response to interest to my cousins' mothers line. My cousins are the children of Bessie - one of the children of Odine's second marriage to Francis Fuller Adam. My cousins don't have the time to pursue research but I really love it so you could say I am doing it for them. We can't pm each other until there are certain number of communications but I would love to format their mothers ancestry for them - are you willing to help me? I would be very grateful.
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I was of the impression that Auntie Bessie had someone doing her tree that was more advanced than my one?? Maybe I had that wrong?? How long have you been doing it for them?? I have a vague recollection of maybe contacting someone while Auntie Bessie was in hospital?? It wasn't you??