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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: ctrunfree on Saturday 18 October 14 04:14 BST (UK)

Title: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: ctrunfree on Saturday 18 October 14 04:14 BST (UK)
I have a baptism of Frances Ellis in the West Yorks England Births and Baptism records on Ancestry.  The heading of the Register seems to say that its of the Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley, and then something about Silkestone (and yes, he has managed to make it illiegible on every page I looked at!)

The scribes on Ancestry have this as being at Barnsley St Mary.  Does that sound right?  They have the baptism on 1 Nov 1814, but if anyone can have a better guess on the birth and baptism dates I'd appreciate it.
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: lemur41 on Saturday 18 October 14 06:51 BST (UK)
Hi

Silkstone is a village near Barnsley, and would be part of the Ecclesiastical area of Barnsley. The boundaries for Dioceses are not always the same geographically  as County boundaries etc. Hope this makes sense

The baptism would probably have been in St. Mary's Silkstone.

Good hunting
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: BumbleB on Saturday 18 October 14 07:32 BST (UK)
According to Genuki - In 1822 Silkstone is a parish in the wapentake of Staincross, liberty of Pontefract, the church, All Saints, is in the Deanery of Doncaster.  Barnsley is in the parish of Silkstone, etc., etc., and at that time the church was being rebuilt and is not named.

Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 18 October 14 07:42 BST (UK)
The first column says Born 20th Ult September?
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: bcrick on Saturday 18 October 14 16:54 BST (UK)
Looking at further entries on those registers they place the month baptized on the line above that month when baptisms occurred. Note the last entry in the date of baptism is bpt baptized. I would think that the ult is actually October so it would read born 20th October 1814 baptized 1 November 1814. Just my opinion. but it does pay to look at other entries in trying to decide what is written.
bcrick
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: dobfarm on Saturday 18 October 14 17:27 BST (UK)
What were the dates for other baptisms, prior and after Frances's baptism on the same page in the Parochial St Mary Chapelry of Barnsley in (All Saints mother church Silkstone village ) Silkstone mother parish

It's highly likely there is a duplicate entry of the baptism event of Frances in the main Silkstone All Staints parish register aswell also another in the BT's.- 3 separate entries in all.
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?-COMPLETED
Post by: ctrunfree on Sunday 19 October 14 00:15 BST (UK)
Having a closer look, it appears that the month is written half way across the page.  (See expanded extract).  So her's was the first baptism (on 1 Nov) for the month, and with a birth of 20th "Ult" meaning previous-ie born 20 Oct.

Thanks everyone for your help.
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 19 October 14 06:08 BST (UK)
Baptisms entry date never go back.
Like crossing each day off the calendar as each month flows after one another in the year, baptism entries follow each day or date in that month the on to the next month.


Birth (Born) date do go back as each event is entered

in this case the 422 entry date was Sep 30 th

then Frances 423 entry date goes back to Sep 1 st




The entry 422 above Frances

says- Sep30 (Sep 30 Th) with what look like 'Th' above on your snippet image with November on the same boxed line in entry 422


~~~~~~~~-


The entry 423 Frances

so Born 20 st ult (dito)-November months baptisms entries in that year ?
Frances entry says -Sep1 (Sep 1 st) with st above) 

Birth (Born) month and year of birth- if different to baptism year:- will be stated the year!

Thus Frances  Born Sep 30th-Baptism Nov 20 th




Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: ctrunfree on Sunday 19 October 14 07:10 BST (UK)
Hi Dobfarm

I think what you are reading as "Sept" is actually the abbreviation of "Baptism".
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 19 October 14 07:36 BST (UK)
Hi Dobfarm

I think what you are reading as "Sept" is actually the abbreviation of "Baptism".


Could be either.  ???

I'll look at the BT's at Borthwick York or Leeds WYAS the next time I'm over there  :)

'Ult' is abbreviation of latin 'ultimo'

 ULT means "Last month (from Latin ultimo)"

Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: ctrunfree on Sunday 19 October 14 07:39 BST (UK)
Hi Dobfarm

I think what you are reading as "Sept" is actually the abbreviation of "Baptism".

'Ult' is abbreviation of latin 'ultimo'

 ULT means "Last month (from Latin ultimo)"

Agree-see my post # 6
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 19 October 14 07:56 BST (UK)
If it is bapt (Not Sep1-('st' above) Then entry 422 is Bapt 30 November (Last day)

So is entry 423 Frances bapt 1 st Dec ? or of the same month -ditto 30 th November ( I cant see a ditto)

Or is November in entry 422 ment to be the start of the next entry below in Frances entry 423 meaning entry 422 is 30th October
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: ctrunfree on Sunday 19 October 14 08:03 BST (UK)
My reading is that the birth, the first one under the "November" heading, is 20th ult-ie 20 Oct, with the baptism on 1 Nov.
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 19 October 14 08:04 BST (UK)
Give me a  few week to check it out

Dobby  ;)
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 19 October 14 08:31 BST (UK)
The PR registers are held at Wakefield Yorks for St Mary Barnsley and All Saint's Silkstone

http://www.archives.wyjs.org.uk/documents/archives/Collections%20Guide%201.pdf

And are on Micro film in my local library

BT's are at York
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: BumbleB on Sunday 19 October 14 08:44 BST (UK)
Whoever wrote up the parish register did not like to give many clues as to the month  ::).  The only way to actually verify the month of baptism would be to work back from image 30 (of the 48 images shown under 1814) - where entries for 1815 commence  ;D  But then Frances appears again - as being baptised 1 July 1814 (same parents etc.) on image 44 of 48.  :o :o

The entry reads, in the column "When Baptised" -  Born 20th ult: bp 1st

Good luck!
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: ctrunfree on Sunday 19 October 14 11:20 BST (UK)
Whoever wrote up the parish register did not like to give many clues as to the month  ::).  The only way to actually verify the month of baptism would be to work back from image 30 (of the 48 images shown under 1814) - where entries for 1815 commence  ;D  But then Frances appears again - as being baptised 1 July 1814 (same parents etc.) on image 44 of 48.  :o :o

The entry reads, in the column "When Baptised" -  Born 20th ult: bp 1st

Good luck!

When I scrolled back through the rest of the entries, it looks like each new month was noted in the middle of the page (like Nov in the extract).  Once you realise that it makes sense.  Maybe saving ink?
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 19 October 14 14:25 BST (UK)
Maybe the author of the register (Vicar maybe) was bit a physic & had visions of long into the future descentants being addicted 'Silly Billy's ' getting a 'high' on future electric mass volume data collecting machines, taking their time off house duty of scrubbing their front doors steps often and turning over residue of outside toilets for the compost heap. Thus tried too deter them by comfusing PR registers or had a bottle of the hard stuff under the puplet  ;D or measured his ink  bottle levels often on ever inceasing price of ink as member 'ctrunfree' suggests

The BT's could be interesting.   ???
Title: Re: Parochial Chapelry of Barnsley?
Post by: dobfarm on Friday 24 October 14 19:21 BST (UK)
I had a look at this register.

End of year 1813 and start of 1814

On the same page
1813 entry box 220 last entry (In December month) has January in the box
Next entry in box 221 starts with the new 1814 written above the word born


Therefore I agree

Frances Born 20th October 1814
Baptised 1st November 1814