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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: liznel on Friday 17 October 14 20:07 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I have a Hugh Fraser(born about 1835 in Girvan) who married Margaret Snedden. They lived in Girvan then Ayr and had 6 children. Hugh appears to be the illigitemate child of Hugh Fraser, grocer and spirit merchant in ..Girvan and Jean/Jane Logie. These names are on Hughs death certificate ..no marriage found for Hugh and Jean.
Hugh marries Jean primrose in 1834 and they have a son Hugh born about 1835 Girvan.
I cannot either sons births in Scotlandspeople.
I have found two different Hughs in various censuses over the years
1) a Cotton weaver who married Margaret Snedden
2) bank clerk who lived in Girvan and Glasgow and was executor of his fathers will ( Hugh ..grocers merchant)
can anyone confirm this information or have I got it all wrong
many thanks for helping
Liz
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Liz, can we just go through this info again please?
Your Hugh was born c. 1835 in Girvan. Who did he marry and when?
From what you mention, for Hugh b. 1835, his death cert showed his parents as Hugh Fraser, grocer's assistand and Jean Logie?
Have you looked for Hugh b. 1835 in the early census? This looks like a possible 1841 census entry for him:
Jean Logcy (as transcribed on the index I am looking at) 40 b. Scotland
Hugh Frazer 5
Margaret Anderson 20
Address: High St, Girvan
Monica
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Just for additional background here. Is this what you mean, re the 1851 census?
Hugh Frazer 45 Grocer Draper & Agent (weavers)
Jane Frazer 48...is this Jean Primrose? Marriage 1834
Hugh Frazer 14 lawyer's clerk apprentice
Hugh Cox 12
Mary Weir 18
Address: Dalrymple St, Girvan
And:
Robert Gordon 42 Hand Loom Weaver (cotton), b. Girvan
Jean Gordon 50 washerwoman b. Paisley
Hugh Frazer 16 stepson, Hand Loom Weaver (cotton), b. Girvan
Robert Gordon 11
Peter Morrie 30
Address: Montgomerie St, Girvan
Monica
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I have found two different Hughs in various censuses over the years
1) a Cotton weaver who married Margaret Snedden
2) bank clerk who lived in Girvan and Glasgow and was executor of his fathers will ( Hugh ..grocers merchant)
Liz, which is your Hugh will depend on how you have worked your research back to this period and those names...
If you can talk about that a little more with details, then maybe we can comment better :)
Could be that Hugh, grocer, fathered two sons around the same time in Girvan.... Married one of the mums, Jean Primrose and Jean Logie then married later...
What was the occupation of your Hugh when he married and what info showed for his parents when he married Margaret Snedden (is that correct?).
Monica
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Hugh married Margaret Sneddon/Snedden on 25th May 1857. Parents were Hugh Frazer and Jean Logie ( Not written as Jean frazer NM Logie which makes me think they did not marry).His occupation was Cotton Weaver.
I have those 1851 census that you have found which also makes me think he had two sons around the same time.
Hugh who was the cotton weaver died in Ayr 1910 and worked on the Railway.
I have also had a look at the inventory taken on Hugh the grocers death. He appeared to be in debt and his wife was not around and is close kin was his son Hugh in Glasgow.
Confusing with all these hughs
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But your line is that of Hugh b. 1835, the weaver?
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/n/e/Iain-F-Sneddon/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0070.html
Monica
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Hugh married Margaret Sneddon/Snedden on 25th May 1857. Parents were Hugh Frazer and Jean Logie ( Not written as Jean frazer NM Logie which makes me think they did not marry).His occupation was Cotton Weaver.
What was the occupation of father Hugh on the 1857 marriage cert? Witnesses names on the registration and address for Hugh b. 1835?
Lots of questions :P Sorry Liz. Just trying to find and put down here all the info here so that we can help further...
Monica
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Hugh's father was a manufacturers agent on the marriage certificate and on his death certificate he was a grocer and wine merchant.
Witnesses were Matthew Sneddon and William Sneddon.
Many thanks
Liz
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Witnesses then all of wife Margaret's side as you have.
Have you followed through on that 1851 entry with a possible marriage for Jean Logie to Robert Gordon to see what happened in her life?
Monica
Added: this must be that marriage/banns here https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT23-98W
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I think this is Hugh and wife Margaret in 1861, as transcribed, in 1861. Doesn't help that they are living in the same street as likely father Hugh, the grocer, who showed there in 1851:
Hugh Frager 24 b. cotton weaver, b. Dailly, Ayrshire
Margaret Frager 23 cotton weaver b. Glasgow
Jame Frager 6...Jane, born before marriage?
Hugh Frager 3
James Frager 5
Address: Dalrymple St. Girvan
Hugh shows consistently as born in Dailly in the censuses doesn't he?
Monica
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Robert Gordon and Jean had a son Robert.
the 1861 census Girvan has jean and her husband living in Plumb street.
Jean died in 1876 aged 78 in plumb street ..her husband Robert a labourer. Her parents were Gilbert Logie and Mary Shaw..
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Liz, from the little here, does sound like you are likely on the right line for your Hugh, who married Margaret Sneddon. The births and or christenings to the two Hughs c. 1835 may not have been registered in the OPRs for lots of reasons, or OPRs over the years have got lost or destroyed. Hard to say always really.
Guess the will of Hugh Snr made no mention of Hugh, son of Jean Logie?
I have never searched for this but people do sometimes look to the Kirk Sessions for the locality to see whether any reference was made to the 'fornication :-X' by the elders... Not sure what may be around for the Girvan area, if anything. These are normally kept at the National Records of Scotland in Edinburgh though and would need to be searched in person. There has been talk of SP starting digitisation for these...but no idea where that is at but not available yet online.
Monica
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Many thanks for your input Monica
Looks like Hugh Snr fathered both Hughs..no mention of my Hugh in will..
best wishes
Liz
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Not that it helps but here's Jeannie Sneddon born 1855.... There is nothing to say that the child belongs to any certain father, but she still could have belonged to Hugh jr. along with the other six children. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY5B-5LW
It does seem rather odd that both Hugh's births are not to be found...
Oh, just see the online tree that you pointed to MonicaL ( Hi! ;D ) and there were actually 8 children shown... they do appear to have the marriage but oddly no parents are listed for that Hugh...? Weren't the parents listed on the marriage?