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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: sharon rothery on Friday 17 October 14 16:09 BST (UK)
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I am trying to trace William Tomsey CREECH,he was born 1849 Marylebone London UK, He is later listed in Australia as marrying Mary Louisa Power in Victoria. Mary Louisa remarried in 1889 in Victoria and was listed as widow and previous husband deceased in 1887. I have some of Williams navy record from England but the details are few and far between,I have been unable to trace him,William and Mary had 3 children together the last ebing born in 1886 in Victoria. His life and death in Australia are a complete mystery. Any help would be appreciated. I have no subscriptions to ancestry or any other sites :(.
Many Thanks
Sharon.
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Link to BDM Registry in Victoria.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria
Welcome to Rootschat Sharon, we will help where we can.
I am a little befuddled by your post. "I have been unable to trace him,"You have his Birth, his marriage his children, his death year. What are you after? I have had a look through "TROVE" and cannot find any reference to your William CREECH. The bdm certs in Victoria can be quiet good with information and with a little bend in your plastic you can have it emailed direct. Victoria does not have a free BDM search but records can be checked for a minimal fee of $0.99.
Neil
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Hi and Welcome to Rootschat ....Don't know if you have him on the census forms his birth date 25/8/1849 Marylebone father Francis Creech mother Anne Maria Morgan
Here he is on the 1851 census at 4,Walmer Street Marylebone
Francis Creech b Bath Somerset 1829 age 22 occupation Boat Manufacturer
Anna Creech b 1826 Marylebone age 25
William Tomsey Creech b 1850 Marylebone age 1
1861 Census he is living with his grandmother at Tipton Grove ? Marylebone
Susan Creech b 1794 Ashcott Somerset age 67 lodging house keeper widow
Francis Creech age 33 looks like widower Boat Maker
William Creech 12
Elizabeth Alice Tomsey Creech b 1849 age 12
Susan Tomsey Creech b 1853 age 8
Anne Tomsey Creech b 1856 age 5
1871 Census
He is on Vessel Royal Oak ...He is able seaman in the Royal Navy
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Not having much luck finding a death record was he still in the navy ? maybe he died at sea
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Hi
Thanks for the replies,Neil I wasn't very clear there >.< I am unable to find anything on his death I would hope to be able to find a death place and maybe burial site. I have searched many find a grave sites etc but to no avail. Rosie yes I have seen those details,I am currently looking into his family over here in the uk,his siblings records etc. William was married to Mary Louisa (she is my great great grandmother) Mary went on to marry twice after William,Thomas Hambley was next in line in 1889 and she gave birth to my Great Grandfather Claude Harry,I have managed to find many details on her other children and their families and have managed to make contact with distnat relatives. Even though William is not my blood relative,it would be nice to put him to rest as such rather than feeling that he just vanished. Williams children were Laura Tomsey Creech,William Frank Bernard Creech and Louige(Lonige) Louie Creech. The latter being quite a character,many articles on trove about him nd his Aus army record makes quite a read.(the children dont bring any light to his life and death,but some people enjoy reading about history and ancestry,like myself)
Once again
Many Thanks for the input :)
Sharon
P.S. No that I am aware of Rosie,I can find no military records for him in Australia,His service record from the uk has no information on duties etc,not sure if they have survived or not,or that maybe they are not public reading?.
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I would have to assume that all the children remained with their mother? Odd there is a marriage in South Australia in 1882 for a William CREECH, not a common name. ::)
William CREECH = Margaret TYRRELL AT Clare Sth Aus 1882 REF # 132/171
I can find no further reference to this chap, no children and no mention of any CREECH Births marriages or deaths deaths up to 1940, I didn't go any further. There are some Births marriages and deaths of CREECH in WA but I cannot see any connection.
Neil
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Do you know if this is just a transcription error or a coincidence.
A death in Victoria.
Charles CREECH Father Frank Mother - Laura TOUSSEY 1887 REF # 1736 ???
Neil
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Hi Neil,
Laura Tomsey Creech Married a John Christian Monson,Laura died circa 1945 in Avro hospital,here is a link to her obit. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/44835195?searchTerm=%22laura%20monson%22&searchLimits=
they had 5 children that I have seen,Dorothy,John,Ronald Austin,Beryl and Allan, (i think these are her children,my notes are all over and could be a little jumbled),Ronald Austin went on to become quite famous,http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/44835195?searchTerm=%22laura%20monson%22&searchLimits=
Sharon.
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Sorry inccorect 2nd link
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/monson-ronald-austin-11149
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There was a William T Creech in NSW in 1885
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/139993649?
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Thanks for that Giblet. I have now just found this on nsw bdm site.
Registration Number Family Name Given Name(s) Father's Given Name(s) Mother's Given
8275/1897 CREECH WILLIAM WILLIAM SUSAN
District
GRANVILLE
Now My Williams father was francis and his mother was anne maria but she died whislt he was young,but His Grandfather was william and his grandmother was Susan.....Could be coincidence?
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Well at least there are no births in NSW for a William and Susan. A Transcription of the DC may offer some other information
Cheaper and can be emailed within a few weeks. See list under.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,300394.0.html
Neil
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Hi,
William Tomsey Creech of Blanket Flat Victoria gets a mention in a December 1863 Victorain Government Gazette as holding 2 shares in the White Hill Gold Mining Company in the Castlemaine District.
Gerry.
Added: Probably different person as our man was still in the RN as this point in time.
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A William CREECH in NSW was a convict arriving 1828 on the ship Mangles (5).
Essie
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Hi,
William Tomsey Creech of Blanket Flat Victoria gets a mention in a December 1863 Victorain Government Gazette as holding 2 shares in the White Hill Gold Mining Company in the Castlemaine District.
Gerry.
Added: Probably different person as our man was still in the RN as this point in time.
The chap our OP is looking for was born in 1849
But it seems a very odd co-incidence of names ???
A 1862 ref to W T CREECH also in connection with mining. In this case the forenames are not given , only initials W and T.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/66330777
Sue
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Thanks for that Giblet. I have now just found this on nsw bdm site.
Registration Number Family Name Given Name(s) Father's Given Name(s) Mother's Given
8275/1897 CREECH WILLIAM WILLIAM SUSAN
District
GRANVILLE
Now My Williams father was francis and his mother was anne maria but she died whislt he was young,but His Grandfather was william and his grandmother was Susan.....Could be coincidence?
Do you have the marriage records for William Tomsey Creech in 1881 ? if not you might be better to get it just to see if it mentions parent's names ...also the age of William ...Seems to be a bit of confusion with this chap ? ..Some trees have a William Tomsey Creech born 1821 Bath Somerset same marriage to Mary Louisa Power ...They also have the death in 1897 with father as William Creech mother Susan Tomsey .I would definitely invest in a few certificates ???
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These are the CREECH names to 1888 in Victoria plus an 1871 marriage of an Ellen CREECH who was born Isle of Man.
To give us a better picture of where these events took place.
Marriage
CREECH William Tomsey born London
POWER Mary Louisa
1881 Reg#4106
Births
CREECH Laura Tomsey
Father William Mother Louisa POWER
At Collingwood 1882 Reg#15082
CREECH William Frank Bernard
Father William Mother Louisa POWER
At Melbourne 1884 Reg#4087
CREECH Lonige Tomsey
Father William Tomsey Mother Mary Louisa POWER
At Fitzroy 1886 Reg#10215
And as Neil mentioned this death of a person born c1850. Is this Wm with an incorrect given name, correct father but incorrect mother. His parents appeared to be Frank and Anne on the 1851 census. Stranger things have happened with death certificates. Death in same area as last child's birth and in 1887.
Death
CREECH Charles
Father Frank Mother Laura TOUSSEY
At South Fitzroy 37 years 1887 Reg#1736
Information on a death certificate only as good as the knowledge of the informant.
Info on all Victorian Certs
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
Link to purchase online and immediately download image of cert.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Cando
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Death
CREECH Charles
Father Frank Mother Laura TOUSSEY
At South Fitzroy 37 years 1887 Reg#1736
Information on a death certificate only as good as the knowledge of the informant.
Cando
Interestingly Ancestry has this death with a very different year ??? ::)
Charles CREECH
Age 37
Father Frank
Mother Laura Toussey
Registration Year 1867
Registration Place Victoria
Reg 1736
Quite worrisome :-X
Sue
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Having taken a break for a couple of weeks due to the frustration and endlessness of everything,I am now back to looking :S.
I have found(Thanks to a very helpful person on the Trova AU forums) that Mary Louisa "Power" was in fact born LEWIS in 1861 in Collingwood,and a few more details.
Thanks for the help and input,I have no doubt I will be back with further requests for help
Sharon
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Would you like to share the information with us please. Every little snippet helps us to help you.
We are no wiser as to whether or not the 1887 death for Charles CREECH was your Wm. I think this death needs to be researched further. Not a commonly occurring surname, age and father's name was a match. Just my opinion.
Have you considered purchasing this cert, which can be done online and immediately downloaded?
In case you didn't read the links I posted previously....
From Victorian Resources at the top of the board
Deaths
Date and place of death;
name and surname;
occupation of the deceased;
sex and age;
cause of death,
duration of illness,
medical attendant by whom certified and when he last saw deceased;
name and surname of parents (if known) including mother's maiden surname, signature, description and address of the person who gave the information; signature of deputy registrar, date and where registered,
when and where buried,
undertaker whom certified;
name and religion of Minister, or names of witnesses of burial;
place of birth of the deceased and how long he or she resided in the Australian colonies or states (stating which),
name of spouse,
place of marriage,
age at marriage;
names and ages of children of the deceased.
Cando
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Hi
The information I have is for Mary Louisa and her siblings.
Bessie Bernard (registered as LEWIS, mother Betsey Anna BERNARD)
Born 6 May 1857
Mary Louisa (registered as LEWIS mother Elizabeth Hannah BERNARD)
Born 17 Aug 1861
Laura (probably LEWIS but I can’t find a birth reg.)
Born 25 Sep 1862
Harry (registered as POWER mother Elizabeth BERNARD)
Born 16 Feb 1865 (? hard to read)
Emily Morrish (registered as POWER mother Elizabeth BENARD)
Born 1869
Sarah Morrish (registered as POWER mother Elizabeth BERNARD)
Born 1871
(Father’s name given as Martin but mother is Elizabeth BERNARD so his recorded name might be an error. Also see my comments below)
Violet Mabel (registered as POWER mother Elizabeth Hannah BARNARD)
Born 1874
The oldest four children were made wards of the state in 1867 as neglected children, and Laura and Louisa were readmitted in 1874. The registers are digitised online on the PROV website.
To search within the relevant series, go here http://tinyurl.com/p9p2jl5
Put 4527 in the VPRS box
Put POWER in the "With any of the words" box
Search
Scroll through the results to find each child and click on their name. On the next page you will see either PDF or JPG, click on that and the digisted record will download.
You are looking for:
Louisa POWER (No. 2315) 1867 (this is Mary Louisa)
Laura POWER (No. 2316) 1867
Harry POWER (No. 2317) 1867
Bessie Bernard POWER (No. 2380) 1867
Laura POWER (No. 7775) 1874
Louisa POWER (No. 7776) 1874
The 1867 records are difficult to read, but the same notes are repeated on the 1874 records and they are much clearer. The children are referenced to each other on the records.
Father Thomas POWER, a miner, supposed to be in NZ on 16/5/67. Mother Elizabeth H. POWER an attendant in the schools on 16/5/67. (the earlier documents name her as Eliz. Hannah)
Just a note about the name of the father on Sarah's birth reg. If you have a look at Trove, there was a man named Martin MORRISH around at the time so would be worth consideration as a possible father for those two girls. The 1874 notes still reference back to Thomas being in NZ in 1867 with no update so I think it unlikely that he was the father of the later children.
I know this is not really of help regards William Tomsey Creech. I have found mention of a William Tomsey Creech in London,before my W T Creech was born,so maybe a relative,the name is not common and the tomsey at a guess as come down from maybe a females surname.
I will purchase some certificates once I have the funds to do so,bit strapped at the moment.
Sharon
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London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Francis Creech
Name: Francis Creech
Spouse: Anne Maria Morgan
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 24 Aug 1846
Parish: St John, Paddington
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: William Creech
Register Type: Parish Register
Williams parents.
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I am trying to trace William Tomsey CREECH,he was born 1849 Marylebone London UK, He is later listed in Australia as marrying Mary Louisa Power in Victoria. Mary Louisa remarried in 1889 in Victoria and was listed as widow and previous husband deceased in 1887. I have some of Williams navy record from England but the details are few and far between,I have been unable to trace him,William and Mary had 3 children together the last ebing born in 1886 in Victoria. His life and death in Australia are a complete mystery.
I've obviously misunderstood your request and reply#18. I thought 'a few more details' were about Wm. I'm sure we could have assisted you with information about his wife if you had asked :)
You 'mystery' may have been solved if you had been in a position to purchase the 1887 CREECH death certificate.
It would appear we possibly had one of our chatters helping Sharon on this forum ;)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/forum/showthread.php?1876-HAMBL%28E%29Y-POWER-CREECH-Perth-Victoria-1800-s
Cando
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Not having much luck finding a death record was he still in the navy ? maybe he died at sea
If he had three children in Victoria, it's a bit hard to envisage that he was still in the Navy.
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Sharon a gentle reminder that it breaches copyright to copy and paste from websites such as ancestry. You are required to transcribe the information. The information posted on rootschat must be your own work.
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Marriage Jun 1848
LEWIS Charles Thomas Kensington 3/298
BERNARD Elizabeth Ann Kensington 2/398
Birth
LEWIS Mary Louisa
Father Charles Thomas Mother Elizabeth Hannah BERNARD
At Collingwood 1861 Reg#18102
Possible death :-\ :-\
LEWIS Charles
Parents unknown
1861 Born London 45 years Reg#8859
So others helping with this thread can see the subsequent marriages of Mary Louisa.
Marriages
CREECH Mary Louisa Born Fitzroy
HAMBLEY Thomas Born Wales
1889 Reg#4367
HAMBLEY Mary Louisa
JESSUP James
1903 Reg#509
District Kookynie
Death of Mary Louisa LEWIS aka POWER 1948.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article46883518
JESSUP In fond and loving remembrance of the mother of Bill Creech, daughter-in-law of Louie, grandmother of Kaloma, Trevor, Jim and great-grandmother of Robert.
JESSUP On January 13, at Leederville, Mary Louisa Jessup, late of 225 Cambridge Street, Leederville, the dearly loved mother of Bill, Lou and Claude, aged 88 years.
JESSUP In loving remembrance of the mother late Laura Monson and grandmother of Beryl, Dorothy, Ron and Allan, great-grandmother of Bevan, Brian, Susan, Ronald and Kenneth.
Cando
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Could we please have the source and your details of William Tomsey CREECH's naval records. I note in the 1871 census is is an Able Seaman aboard the ROYAL OAK moored off Naples.
Cando
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In response to an email to MGC today. Extremely fast service ;D
I have queried the 31 years on their database as Charles CREECH's age on the death index was 37. Possibly an error transcribing from old records to the database.
Cando
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Database has been amended to read age at death 37 years.
This is the best I can do for a grave location.
Cheers
Cando
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Cando thank you so much for all of the amazing information :). My apologies for the copy and paste. The naval records I purchased a digital copy from the uk national archives,Only a few pages and very limited details. I have the copy on my pc,is there a way to get them on here? I am not the most web savvy person >.< Or I am more than happy to send a copy of the file via email.
Sharon
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No need for an apology....I wouldn't like to see a moderator delete the information.
No need really to see the naval records. Does it give any indication of when he was discharged?
Cando
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Cando,
No there is no actual service listings or details,and considering he joined in 1863 at 14 years old,which is shocking to me ( a whole different world back then )and was according to the census in 1871 still serving,I would have expected some details,I am at a loss as to where to go other than finding time and visting the national arhives at Kew. When he enlisted it was with the ship "Fisgard" and then at some point was on the "Royal Oak". i contacted the National Archives in the uk regarding the limited information but they were unable to throw any light on the information,other than to give me some internent links to search pay records and such (all of which can be viewed at kew but not online.) .
Sharon.
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On the 1871 census he was a 23 year old able seaman on the ROYAL OAK which was moored near Naples 'in the Mediterranean'.
The pay records would give you all his service details etc. but only available by someone visiting Kew.
Cando
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It would appear we possibly had one of our chatters helping Sharon on this forum ;)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/forum/showthread.php?1876-HAMBL%28E%29Y-POWER-CREECH-Perth-Victoria-1800-s
Cando
That would be my evil twin sister ;D
Also curious that the death reg. for son William Frank Bernard has his father recorded as Charles.
http://www.bdm.dotag.wa.gov.au/_apps/pioneersindex/default.aspx
Debra :)
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I wonder if their father was named William or Charles on these certs?
CREECH Laura Tomsey
MONSEN JOHN
District Menzies Reg#447 1899
CREECH Louige
LINDSAY Rosina B
District Claremont Reg#15 1911
CREECH William F B
RUSSELL Louisa W M
District Subiaco Reg#71 1915
Cando
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We know that when he married Mary Louisa that he was still using William Tomsey ,maybe he just fancied a change or that something happened and he needed to change identity. My mum has ordered a copy of his birth certificate over here in the uk. There is alot of material regarding their son Lonige,Louige,Loui,and other alias he was a bit of a naughty boy >.<
Sharon
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A bit more
Marriage at St John Church, Parish of Paddington, Middlesex after Banns.
Francis CREECH, of full age, Bachelor, Shoemaker of 13 Praed Street. Father William CREECH, Tailor.
Anne Maria MORGAN, a minor, spinster of 34 Star Street. Father John MORGAN, Groom.
Francis signed the register and Anne left her mark X. Witnesses Wm ELLIS and Susan CREECH. Both signed their names.
Births Sep 1852
CREECH Susan Tomsey Marylebone 1a/373
Baptised 31 Mar 1861
Westminster, St Marylebone
CREEK Susan Tomsey
Parents Francis and Ann CREEK Occupation Shoemaker
94 Lipson Grove
Born 24 Jun 1852.
I noticed the baptism of a Joseph Tomsey CREECH in Jun qtr 1852, his parents are Joseph and Elizabeth. It is possible the Tomsey name is connected to the CREECH family not the MORGAN.
This is possibly the death of Wm Tomsey's mother as his father Francis was a Widower on the 1861 census.
Deaths Sep 1857
CREEK Anne Maria Kingston 2a/100
And his father
Deaths Sep 1862
CREECH Francis Marylebone 1a/325
Cando
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I have seen that death for a Francis Creech but on the navy records a Francis Creech signed Williams enlistment papers in 1863. The website find my past is having a free weekend this weekend so I am downloading as many listings and documents I think may be related to them. I will be dizzy by monday :)
Sharon
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Sharon I suggest you download the 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911 census for Francis/Frank CREECH born c1828, bootmaker with wife Eliza and more chn. I can't find a second marriage. I'm pretty sure he died as Francis T CREECH in 1917 although he age is wrong. Possibly his wife Eliza died in 1917 also. There was c10 gap in their ages on the various census.
Frank stated they were married 49 years in 1911 so they either moved in together immediately following Anne's death or married around that time.
Cando
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Hi
I have downloaded and copied as much as possible. I have a copy of a marriage certificate for Mary Louisa Creech and Thomas Hambley but it is very hard to read in places. Do you know if it is possible that victoria bmd would be able to have a look at the original and clear up some difficult to read parts?
I am having problems reading the maiden name of Thomas' mum Eliza.
Thanks
Sharon.
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Sharon I doubt Vic BDM would assist you. Some of the writing is at times almost illegible on the pages of the registers.
Would you like to snip the columns of the certificate that are difficult to read and post them here as an attachment. You are not permitted to post the complete certificate.
I can pm my email address if you would like me to have a look for you.
If you can post some details of Thos ie his age, his place of birth, father's name we may be able to find more info for you from freebdm and 1861 census.
Cando
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Hi Cando,hope this works
(http://)
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Thomas Hambley has himself as comming from Wales England,but I do wonder if the "Wales" was misheard due to not being able to find a birth for him in Wales,There are lots of Hambley' in Somerset so i did wonder if infact it was "wells". He has himself aged 33 at the time of marriage of 8th June 1889 in Fitzroy,His father is Thomas and mother Eliza (maiden name not clear) looks like it begins with an H or K looking at the writing on the rest of the cert. The only info we have is what is on the certificate,that and he fathered my great grandfather Claude. He abandoned mary and claude according to the trove article the intent to remarry from "Louie Hambley"
If the image above is no good,let me know and I can send the full document via email.
Many Thanks Sharon.
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Looks a little like KENWOOD but I think I would prefer to see the cert.
I've pm'd my email address.
Cheers
Cando
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Good Morning all.... newbie here! I am hoping Cando, Dundee and Sharon see this post. This post mainly relates to replies #20, #22 & #32 of this thread.
My dad (Bill) started research on our family tree in early 1960. I got involved, briefly, back in 1995 but family, work etc intervened. Dad passed away a few years ago and I have picked up the baton!
I am not having much luck with the Victorian BDM... either offline for maintenance or crashes when I have tried to research lists... will try again later.
The Harry Power mentioned above is my GGGF. He was born in Melbourne, Victoria 6th February 1865 and died 21st June 1919 Darlinghurst, NSW. Note I am awaiting death certificate. There was an article in a Sydney newspaper on 2nd July 1919 that could be about our Harry. Family knowledge has Harry and his eldest son (William Henry Power, known as William Harry) as champion West Australian billiards champs. Note there are 2 death notices in the West Australian on 23/06/19 for 2 Harry Power's. This has been a stumbling block, I believe, for various people researching this branch of our tree. The copies my dad and others had were poor copies and the 2nd notice was illegible.
That brings us to Thomas Russell Power... the real stumbling block. Nobody has been able to pinpoint his date of birth. Various records state Cork and probably (sorry to use that word) 1835. Dundee's work for Sharon has thrown a new avenue of pursuit!
Harry's birth certificate has Thomas Russell Power, Clerk, 30 Co Cork Ireland married in 1860 at Collingwood to Elizabeth Hannah, late Lewis formerly Bernard, 32 London. Siblings: Mary Louisa 3 1/2 and Laura Russell 2 1/2. This information was provided on 11th may 1865 by Elizabeth Hannah Power.
I will chase down marriage certificate for TR & EH, but I think they may have lied about 1860 as year of marriage because the 2 Lewis girls (Mary Louisa and Laura) were born after this date.
Now the plot thickens... Thomas Russell, our Clerk turned miner, appears to have married a Kate Annie O'Brien in Ballarat East, Victoria on 9th November 1868 at St Alipius Church. The copy of the marriage certificate is very ordinary but has TR Bachelor at Clerk 33 and KA Spinster School Mistress at 26 Birthplace Cork for both. TR parents, William Francis Power (accountant) and Mary Russell. This TR dies 27th September 1916 in Melbourne aged 82, accountant, 40years in Victoria. Parents unknown. Wife Kate O'Brien. Issue: "one male dead William 8/12" Kate died 31st October 1918 Born Cork, 60 years in Victoria, married to Thomas Power in Ballarat (age is illegible) NO ISSUE???? Kate's Will was written before Thomas died, yet no mention of him...all went to her sister(?)
I have in my possession a letter from St Patrick's Cathedral sent to my dad in 1992 confirming the above marriage as per the Church marriage Register. The only difference is that TR is listed as 35yo
A few people doing research on Thomas Russell Power have his date of death as "before 1891"
So how can all you wonderful "genies" help????
When and what ship did Thomas Russell Power and Elizabeth Bernard arrive in Australia?
When and where did Elizabeth Bernard die? Suggestions that it was 1875, a year after last child was born.
When and where were Thomas & Elizabeth married? Collingwood, Victoria 1860?
Where was Thomas Russell Power born? Cork? Limmerick is a possibility... I will explain why later.
If Thomas was in New Zealand in 1867 then which ship did he leave on? If so who is the Thomas Russell Power marrying Kate Obrien?
I have plenty of questions about Harry Power...but they can wait LOL
I feel that they lied about their marriage date and that Thomas Russell got involved with Elizabeth and "adopted" the Lewis girls and then left Elizabeth and moved to Ballarat and remarried.
I hope the above makes sense and I appreciate people taking the time to read it and hopefully respond. Cheers David Power
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The Harry Power mentioned above is my GGGF. He was born in Melbourne, Victoria 6th February 1865 and died 21st June 1919 Darlinghurst, NSW. Note I am awaiting death certificate. There was an article in a Sydney newspaper on 2nd July 1919 that could be about our Harry. Family knowledge has Harry and his eldest son (William Henry Power, known as William Harry) as champion West Australian billiards champs. Note there are 2 death notices in the West Australian on 23/06/19 for 2 Harry Power's. This has been a stumbling block, I believe, for various people researching this branch of our tree. The copies my dad and others had were poor copies and the 2nd notice was illegible.
Hi David,
I really cannot see why these two deaths would be a source of confusion for researchers.
They are clearly for two different men.
The West Australian Saturday 21 June 1919
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/27608583
POWER.—On June 20, at Base Hospital, Fre-mantle, Harry George, late beloved husband of Francis, and father of Harry (America), Ernest (on active service), Arthur (died of wounds), Bert and Stan (returned), Grace and Daisy, Leon and Roll, of Railway-crescent, Bayswater, and late of Brentford, England, also of the Loco. Shops, Midland Junction, aged 56. A patient sufferer at rest.
The West Australian Monday 23 June 1919
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/27608731
"POWER.-On June 21, at Darlinghurst Sydney, Harry. the beloved husband of Esther and father of William, Dudley, Myrtle,and Polly."
Inserted by his son and daughter in law W. and M. Power
His birth in Vic
POWER Harry
Father Thomas Russell
Mother Elizabeth BERNARD
Birth Place MELB
Year 1865
Reg 10285
This lengthy news item gives a picture of his life.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/58004454
Sue
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Now the plot thickens... Thomas Russell, our Clerk turned miner, appears to have married a Kate Annie O'Brien in Ballarat East, Victoria on 9th November 1868 at St Alipius Church. The copy of the marriage certificate is very ordinary but has TR Bachelor at Clerk 33 and KA Spinster School Mistress at 26 Birthplace Cork for both. TR parents, William Francis Power (accountant) and Mary Russell. This TR dies 27th September 1916 in Melbourne aged 82, accountant, 40years in Victoria. Parents unknown. Wife Kate O'Brien. Issue: "one male dead William 8/12" Kate died 31st October 1918 Born Cork, 60 years in Victoria, married to Thomas Power in Ballarat (age is illegible) NO ISSUE???? Kate's Will was written before Thomas died, yet no mention of him...all went to her sister(?)
POWER Thomas Russell ( born Cork)
Kate Anne
Year 1868
Reg 3964
A birth-
POWER Joseph William
Father Thomas Richard
Mother Kate Ann OBRIEN
Birth Place BALL
Year 1870
Reg 327
There is no marriage in Victoria between Elizabeth BERNARD and Thomas Russell POWER in 1860
These items may pertain to the Thomas Russell POWER who was the father of Harry POWER
The Farmer's Journal and Gardener's Chronicle Saturday 7 June 1862
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/179383847
NEW INSOLVENTS.
Thomas Russell Power, of Fitzroy, gentleman. Causes of insolvency: Pressure of creditors, and fear of arrest. Debts, £109 2s 5d; assets, £5; deficiency, £104 2s 5d. Mr Good-
man, official assignee. John Cunliffe, of Melbourne, commission agent. Causes of insolvency : Pressure of creditors, inability to obtain a settlement of accounts with C. Watt and Cos. Debts, £l3B 17s; assets, £136 14 Id } deficiency, £2 2s lid. Mr Courtney, official assignee.
12th Sept 1863
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/155020632
Thomas Joseph Russell Power, of Richmond, late publican, now out of business. Causes of in solvency : False representations made reporting the takings of tho Cherry Tree Hotel, losses in trade, And pressure of creditors. Liabilities, £300 7s 9d ; assets, £15 9s 3d; deficiency, £284 18s 6d. Mr -Jacomb, official assignee.
Sue
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Hi David,
Lovely to hear from you. I have tracked down living family members of mary Louisas (my GGGM) daughter Laura and have had many a lengthy email conversation with them in Australia,If this would be of interest to you please let me know. The people on here are great and massivly helpful,Cando as been a great help and has helped me out no end. Im a newbie myself and with others help it is amazing how far you can go. My Great Grandfather was Claude Harry,I am guessing the Harry came from Marys brother Harry Power.
Sharon.
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The Harry Power mentioned above is my GGGF. He was born in Melbourne, Victoria 6th February 1865 and died 21st June 1919 Darlinghurst, NSW. Note I am awaiting death certificate. There was an article in a Sydney newspaper on 2nd July 1919 that could be about our Harry. Family knowledge has Harry and his eldest son (William Henry Power, known as William Harry) as champion West Australian billiards champs. Note there are 2 death notices in the West Australian on 23/06/19 for 2 Harry Power's. This has been a stumbling block, I believe, for various people researching this branch of our tree. The copies my dad and others had were poor copies and the 2nd notice was illegible.
Hi David,
I really cannot see why these two deaths would be a source of confusion for researchers.
They are clearly for two different men.
The West Australian Saturday 21 June 1919
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/27608583
POWER.—On June 20, at Base Hospital, Fre-mantle, Harry George, late beloved husband of Francis, and father of Harry (America), Ernest (on active service), Arthur (died of wounds), Bert and Stan (returned), Grace and Daisy, Leon and Roll, of Railway-crescent, Bayswater, and late of Brentford, England, also of the Loco. Shops, Midland Junction, aged 56. A patient sufferer at rest.
The West Australian Monday 23 June 1919
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/27608731
"POWER.-On June 21, at Darlinghurst Sydney, Harry. the beloved husband of Esther and father of William, Dudley, Myrtle,and Polly."
Inserted by his son and daughter in law W. and M. Power
His birth in Vic
POWER Harry
Father Thomas Russell
Mother Elizabeth BERNARD
Birth Place MELB
Year 1865
Reg 10285
This lengthy news item gives a picture of his life.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/58004454
Sue
Hi Sue
Thank you for the article! This helps with another lead regarding Coolgardie, WA (near Kalgoorlie) ... I have a copy of one page titled "Coolgardie Pioneers" there is a photo of a group of men, with one listed as Harry Power. I plan to post it later if I get no joy from the Coolgardie Historical Society. The main reason for the confusion, sorry I should have been clearer, is the copies dad and others had were very poor quality... photocopied 30 plus years ago.
Thanks so much for your help.
Regards David
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Now the plot thickens... Thomas Russell, our Clerk turned miner, appears to have married a Kate Annie O'Brien in Ballarat East, Victoria on 9th November 1868 at St Alipius Church. The copy of the marriage certificate is very ordinary but has TR Bachelor at Clerk 33 and KA Spinster School Mistress at 26 Birthplace Cork for both. TR parents, William Francis Power (accountant) and Mary Russell. This TR dies 27th September 1916 in Melbourne aged 82, accountant, 40years in Victoria. Parents unknown. Wife Kate O'Brien. Issue: "one male dead William 8/12" Kate died 31st October 1918 Born Cork, 60 years in Victoria, married to Thomas Power in Ballarat (age is illegible) NO ISSUE???? Kate's Will was written before Thomas died, yet no mention of him...all went to her sister(?)
POWER Thomas Russell ( born Cork)
Kate Anne
Year 1868
Reg 3964
A birth-
POWER Joseph William
Father Thomas Richard
Mother Kate Ann OBRIEN
Birth Place BALL
Year 1870
Reg 327
There is no marriage in Victoria between Elizabeth BERNARD and Thomas Russell POWER in 1860
These items may pertain to the Thomas Russell POWER who was the father of Harry POWER
The Farmer's Journal and Gardener's Chronicle Saturday 7 June 1862
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/179383847
NEW INSOLVENTS.
Thomas Russell Power, of Fitzroy, gentleman. Causes of insolvency: Pressure of creditors, and fear of arrest. Debts, £109 2s 5d; assets, £5; deficiency, £104 2s 5d. Mr Good-
man, official assignee. John Cunliffe, of Melbourne, commission agent. Causes of insolvency : Pressure of creditors, inability to obtain a settlement of accounts with C. Watt and Cos. Debts, £l3B 17s; assets, £136 14 Id } deficiency, £2 2s lid. Mr Courtney, official assignee.
12th Sept 1863
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/155020632
Thomas Joseph Russell Power, of Richmond, late publican, now out of business. Causes of in solvency : False representations made reporting the takings of tho Cherry Tree Hotel, losses in trade, And pressure of creditors. Liabilities, £300 7s 9d ; assets, £15 9s 3d; deficiency, £284 18s 6d. Mr -Jacomb, official assignee.
Sue
Sue
Thank you again.... The birth of Joseph William I will follow up.... but no mention of children on Kate's death registration, which could have been the lack of knowledge of the informant. Also no mention of children in her will.
Cheers
David
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Hi David,
As you have the death certificates of both Thomas and Kate Anne POWER, it would be very helpful if you would take the time to transcribe them. Please give the information in each column, omitting nothing and being as precise as you can. ;D
There may be just a little detail there which can help a researcher.
Sue
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Hi David,
Lovely to hear from you. I have tracked down living family members of mary Louisas (my GGGM) daughter Laura and have had many a lengthy email conversation with them in Australia,If this would be of interest to you please let me know. The people on here are great and massivly helpful,Cando as been a great help and has helped me out no end. Im a newbie myself and with others help it is amazing how far you can go. My Great Grandfather was Claude Harry,I am guessing the Harry came from Marys brother Harry Power.
Sharon.
Hi Sharon
I have been on this site for one day and everybody has been fantastic! Yes I am interested to hear from Cando and Dundee...hopefully they will see the thread.
I would love to chat to my OZ cousins!
Regards & thanks David Power
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Hi David,
As you have the death certificates of both Thomas and Kate Anne POWER, it would be very helpful if you would take the time to transcribe them. Please give the information in each column, omitting nothing and being as precise as you can. ;D
There may be just a little detail there which can help a researcher.
Sue
Hi again Sue! Being a newbie I am not sure if I can simply scan them??? If not I will transcribe what I can.
I feel that Thomas Russell Power and Elizabeth Hannah were married just before Harry was born, certainly after the birth of the 2 Lewis girls. Somewhere in the thread is a reference to the Lewis girls fathers death. Collingwood and Fitsroy are next to each other and a stones throw from where Harry was born and the Cherry Tree Hotel in Richmond is also very close. Wow I used to drink there many years ago!
If Thomas Russell was insolvent, he may have " chosen" to change his name slightly? It is interesting that Harry, his son William and grand son Dudley were involved in hotels in NSW & WA.
Regards David
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Hi David,
Just to reiterate-
There is no marriage in Victoria between Elizabeth BERNARD (or LEWIS) and Thomas Russell POWER
Also none from the time of Victoria's civil registration 1853 and 1889.
The Cherry Tree Hotel, Richmond is not really close to Collingwood and Fitzroy . It now sits in the heart of Cremorne. Perhaps you could consult the online map services to judge.
It is not possible under the rules of R'chat for you to scan and paste the documents. That is why a laborious transcription is the answer here ;D
Sue
-
Death of child Joseph William-
POWER Joseph William
Father Thomas Richard
Mother Kate Ann U (unknown)
Age:4M
Birth Place BALL
Year 1870
Reg 164
Sue
-
Death of child Joseph William-
POWER Joseph William
Father Thomas Richard
Mother Kate Ann U (unknown)
Age:4M
Birth Place BALL
Year 1870
Reg 164
Sue
I have an extract from the Old Ballarat Cemetery... Joseph William Power 4M buried 15/01/1870. Which if this is correct he was born in 1869. Thomas Russell Power death registration alludes to a deceased William 8/12. I wonder if the 8/12 means 8 months?
I had a quick look at the Ballarat Star Newspaper no birth, death or marriage notices around these dates.
Given I live in Melbourne I can duck into the Cherry Tree (also had an infamous past as a watering hole during Melbourne's gangland wars) and see if they have any old records. Liquor licensing may be worth following up?
Thanks for your on going help.
Dvaid
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have an extract from the Old Ballarat Cemetery... Joseph William Power 4M buried 15/01/1870. Which if this is correct he was born in 1869.
David, I gave you the birth registration in reply #45
I will re-check Ballarat Cemetery for you.
ADDING
Checked my Ballarat resource.
No others share the space with the child.
His last address was Lyons St, Ballarat.
Yes, I would say the informant on Thomas' death certificate has the age as 8 months and also the child referred to is quite possibly this Joseph William.
Informants are often incorrect in their information.
Who was the informant?
As mentioned, details from the certificates of Thomas Russell and Ann Kate POWER would be a help.
Sue
-
Electoral Rolls are available online for Victoria from 1903
From 1903 to 1909 Kate Ann POWER lived at 53 Carlisle St. St Kilda.
Over those years she is listed either as being of independent means or performing home duties.
No others of the surname are with her.
In 1903 man named Thomas Russell POWER is listed at 230 Leicester St. Carlton. Independent means. No others of the surname are with him.
So it would appear from at least 1903, the couple were not together.
I have read Kate Ann POWER's will.
Sue
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sharon rothery
Are you able please to tell us the source of your list of children attributed to Elizabeth BERNARD which you have given in Reply #20. Is it only from the index, or do you have another source?
While those births to 1865 would seem to be with father Thomas POWER, those after are less certain to my way of thinking.
Sue
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Hi Sue
The information was given to me via another forum. Elizabeth Ann, Anne or Hannah Bernard registered the later children as Power but that does not mean that he fathered them as mentioned in the same post on here some of the later children had Morrish as a middle name and there was a Martin Morrish in the area at the time. Elizabeth does not seem to be the most honest or stable of people. I have no reason to doubt the information given the poster that helped me is good. I will have a dig through my work later and see what is there.
I can see no trace of the other children haven been taken into care, Louisa and Laura were both back in care in 1874 which is the same year as the birth of the last of the 3 later children. I have Mary Louisa' life pretty much worked out as she is a direct relative
Sharon.
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Thanks Sharon.
It seems to me that there is no way to know that Thomas Russell POWER was the father of all or some or which of the children.
Supposing he fathered the four children up to 1865, (Harry) and assuming- as it cannot be located - there was no marriage to Elizabeth BERNARD in 1860 or any other time, then the marriage he made with Kate Ann O'BRIEN was perfectly legitimate.
Elizabeth gave the information regarding Thomas, his whereabouts and occupation to the state authorities when the children went to care. I suspect it is fictitious.
Her ongoing use of the name POWER when registering the births of her children means nothing. Perhaps she just wanted them to all have the same surname to save face.
Sue
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David
Elizabeth A Lewis and Charles Lewis arrived on the ship Ontario July 1854
Index to Assisted British Immigration 1839-1871 book 11 page 46
I have a digital copy of the page but it is so hard to make out,the info came from my relative contact in Aus and I'm guessing it is easier to read from a physical copy.
Sharon
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Thanks Sharon.
It seems to me that there is no way to know that Thomas Russell POWER was the father of all or some or which of the children.
Supposing he fathered the four children up to 1865, (Harry) and assuming- as it cannot be located - there was no marriage to Elizabeth BERNARD in 1860 or any other time, then the marriage he made with Kate Ann O'BRIEN was perfectly legitimate.
Elizabeth gave the information regarding Thomas, his whereabouts and occupation to the state authorities when the children went to care. I suspect it is fictitious.
Her ongoing use of the name POWER when registering the births of her children means nothing. Perhaps she just wanted them to all have the same surname to save face.
Sue
I am of the same opinion,she does come across as a troubled soul. I have seen (and will dig deeper) that over here in the UK she was in a workhouse at the age of 11. There are some heartbreaking parts to researching,I have discovered that my GGGM Mary Louise and her daughter Laura both suffered a stillbirth within 6 years of each other,My relative in Australia has visited the graves.
Sharon
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David, I gave you the birth registration in reply #45
I will re-check Ballarat Cemetery for you.
ADDING
Checked my Ballarat resource.
No others share the space with the child.
His last address was Lyons St, Ballarat.
Yes, I would say the informant on Thomas' death certificate has the age as 8 months and also the child referred to is quite possibly this Joseph William.
Informants are often incorrect in their information.
Who was the informant?
As mentioned, details from the certificates of Thomas Russell and Ann Kate POWER would be a help.
Sue
[/quote]
Hi Sue.... my goodness you are fast! Today at work, I have been thinking about all this new information. I really appreciate your help!
The informant was a H Richardson Clerk, Authorized Agent, Melbourne Hospital.
The two documents I have are greater in size than A4 and up to A3. My wonderful partner can scan these tomorrow (our little scanner at home is not up to the task lol) Is it ok to PM the results to you? pdf's will probably be around 1mb so hopefully I can do via this site.
I will be opening a new thread about Harry & Thomas Russell. I will have to order birth and death certificates/registrations for all the siblings/children of all parties.
Cheers
David
ps I have noted everything posted here and elsewhere... Lyons Street Ballarat is on the ever expanding list! fantastic work by you...again!
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I came across this birth whilst I was searching a while ago and filed it under possible Thomas Russell Power children,
Florence Maud POWER
born 1873 Collingwood
Mother Kate POWER
no father listed
reg no 23231
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Hi David,
As I have suggested, what might be the best way for all to see the death certificate's information would be for you to type the information from them.
Sending them just to me means I am the only person who can see them and remember, this is a great team site ;D
If you can just take time to look at each heading and type word for word what is under it, that might help. You may not post entire documents on the public board for reasons of copyright.
Sue
-
David
Elizabeth A Lewis and Charles Lewis arrived on the ship Ontario July 1854
Index to Assisted British Immigration 1839-1871 book 11 page 46
I have a digital copy of the page but it is so hard to make out,the info came from my relative contact in Aus and I'm guessing it is easier to read from a physical copy.
Sharon
Hi Sharon Wow! I presume this arrival was to Melbourne? I am about to lose my computer to the kids so I can not follow your information up until the weekend...or put in my footy tips grrrrrr!
From earlier post from Cando (#24) We appear to have Elizabeth ANN (not Hannah...maybe Anna or Annah all along???) marrying Charles Thomas Lewis in 1848 which according to my inherited notes has her at 15yo. They arrive in 1854, Mary Louisa born 1861 and Charles dying in the same year. The plot thickens.... Laura was born 25th Sept 1862 hmmmmmmmmm???????
No marriage record for Elizabeth and Thomas Power, although stated as 1860 on Harry's birth registration... looks like I have to order more death & birth registrations.
Regards David
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I came across this birth whilst I was searching a while ago and filed it under possible Thomas Russell Power children,
Florence Maud POWER
born 1873 Collingwood
Mother Kate POWER
no father listed
reg no 23231
Quite a possible next birth!
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I came across this birth whilst I was searching a while ago and filed it under possible Thomas Russell Power children,
Florence Maud POWER
born 1873 Collingwood
Mother Kate POWER
no father listed
reg no 23231
Sharon thank you! Have added this to the to do list! Interesting...if correct puts TR back in Melbourne just prior to second intervention of removing Louisa and Laura and b4 last child birth (Violet) who has "Thos" listed as father. Hmmmmmmm and all in an old stomping ground. But the surname Power was very common back in the day! Thanks again David
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I have on file this information Charles T Lewis, Carpenter of Collingwood
died on the 22/10/1880 and that probate was
granted to Bessie B Cameron.
Bessie was Charles and Elizabeths first born
The record found for bessie birth is as follows
Gender Unknown
Bessie Barnard Lewis
Born 1856
Forest CK (creek?)
Victoria
Father Charles Thomas
Mother Betsey Anna (yet another name change,this lady had serious personality disorder)
Reg no 5989
-
Hi David,
As I have suggested, what might be the best way for all to see the death certificate's information would be for you to type the information from them.
Sending them just to me means I am the only person who can see them and remember, this is a great team site ;D
If you can just take time to look at each heading and type word for word what is under it, that might help. You may not post entire documents on the public board for reasons of copyright.
Sue
Hi Sue, please excuse delay!
THIRD SCHEDULE
DEATHS in the District of Melbourne East in the State of Victoria
N0. (1) 362 (stamped) and below this U.R. (stamped)
When and where Died. (2) 27th September 1916 (written) Melbourne Hospital Gipps Ward City of Melbourne County of Bourke (stamped) 131Grattan Street St Kilda (written)
Name and Surname, Rank or Profession (3) Thomas Power, line, accountant (all written)
Sex and Age (4) male, 82 years (all written)
Cause of death etc (5) NOT EASY TO DECIPHER
Name and Surname of Father and Mother etc (6) unknown (written)
Signature, Description and Residence of Informant (7) H J Richardson (?) Clerk Authorized Agent Melbourne Hospital (all written)
Signature of Registrar etc (8) E H Clarke 29th September 1916 (written) Melbourne East (stamped)
When and where buried etc (9) 29th September 1916 Fawkner Cemetery H J Keenan (all written)
Name and religion of Minister or name of witnesses of Burial (10) line, C R Heath, line, H V Kelly
When born and how long in the Australian States, stating which (11) Cork Ireland 40 years in Victoria (all written)
IF DECEASED WAS MARRIED
(1) where, and at what (2) age and to (3) whom (12) Ballarat Victoria, unknown, Kate O'Brien (all written)
Issue in order of Birth, their Names and Ages. (13) one male dead William 8/12, line. (all written)
Hope this makes sense! Regards David
Note I doubt 40years in Victoria is correct as he married Kate in 1868.
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Hi Shron and David, I am a G grandaughter of Laura Russell. It was only within the last mother I stumbled on the State ward files for Laura Louisa and Harry. Laura married a George Stuart Packer. The family has been a mystery and finding this post has been an absolute treasure. I did find an article for the Death of a Thomas Power 25 Sept 1881 at Aldgate Pump Hotel. Laura and George traveled between NZ and Melbourne, Aust. having children born in each country. I have been trying to find my g fathers siblings which has not been easy. They were never a family to keep in contact. Laura was red head which we have only recently found out. She is buried here in Wanganui NZ as is her son George my grandfather.(he was born in Melbourne) they traveled with circus and we think with the horses. Laura was a beautiful singer as was her daughter but we think in the berlesque style as the daughter Bridie married, had a child who was kept by her fathers family and forbidden to associate with her mothers family. We also had horse jockeys and were told that Lauras brother Harry was involved with horses.
I would really like to be able to get in touch away from this feed and have contact with you both regarding our connections with Laura, Louisa and Harry
It has taken years to try and piece Laura and Georges life and now I am discovery Laura's siblings.
I live in NZ
Regards
Karina
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Hi Karina I have been trying to PM you but the system states your mailbox is full :( It was great to see your post. Please PM me or empty your mailbox lol. Hope to hear from you. Cheers David
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Karina I forgot to mention that a few of the Power's were noted singers and nearly all had red hair lol. Harry was indeed involved with horses but sadly from the punting end! There are some great articles on Harry in Trove. It appears Harry was estranged from his dad at the time of his death. Cheers David
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reply to #71. Thanks David, I have cleared the message so you should be able to PM me now. So looking forward to what you have. It has indeed been a great to read the posts for the Power line and put it together. I only had from Laura Russell's marriage to George Packer and their children and only my mothers line and one other.
Cheers
Karina
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Electoral Rolls are available online for Victoria from 1903
From 1903 to 1909 Kate Ann POWER lived at 53 Carlisle St. St Kilda.
Over those years she is listed either as being of independent means or performing home duties.
No others of the surname are with her.
In 1903 man named Thomas Russell POWER is listed at 230 Leicester St. Carlton. Independent means. No others of the surname are with him.
So it would appear from at least 1903, the couple were not together.
I have read Kate Ann POWER's will.
Sue
Hi Sue
I have found a divorce record (and ordered the case from PROV) for Thomas and Kate in 1892, assuming the case proceeded it will be an interesting read as back in the day...there was fault/cause in divorce. Cheers David ps ty for reviving this post!