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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Somerset => England => Somerset Lookup Requests => Topic started by: SpitzMum on Sunday 12 October 14 00:57 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I am trying to help my niece with her school history project.
I am trying to research a "Jack" Coles.
Jack was married to Rose, who I think I have pinned down to being a Rose Dando b. 1886 in Clutton.
The names of her siblings match, as do the dates.
However, I am at a loss as to find anything out about her husband "Jack".
The marriage record between Rose and her partner has been transcribed as John Cole, (not Coles).
According to family members who can remember them, "Jack" had siblings of:
John
Roy
George
Alex
Fred
Reg
Douglas
Evelyn
Muriel
But I cant find any census records for them at all. Can't find a likely looking birth record for Jack either.
Does anyone have any bright ideas?
I'm particularly interested in this tree - because apparently somewhere in it is Cary Grant! And yes, I know that's not his real name ;)
Many thanks for any help at all. :)
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The first step would be to buy the marriage certificate - that will give you a father's name! ;D
You also need some dates for the births of his siblings?
The marriage:
September qtr 1913
Clutton district vol 5c, page 1080
Dando, Rose
Cole, John
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Thanks!
Have ordered the marriage certificate. I can't wait to see the next installment of the story!
I think I have uncovered all of the names of the supposed siblings above- they are all siblings of someone else - the Jack above's Daughter-in-law's (some of them half-) siblings. The names of them are:
Frederick Henry Gordon b 1908
John William b 1909
Muriel M b 1913
Douglas, b 1918
Reginald b 1924
Alec b 1927
Roy b 1930
I think the names there are just too similar to an entire set of siblings elsewhere in the tree for it to be a coincidence.
I can't wait to find out more!
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Rose Dando, born 1886, Clutton district married in 1910 to Frederick Graves!
They had 3 children in London, and she died, as Rose Graves, in 1967.
Are you saying that those people you mentioned are all Dando's? :-\
Looking at Muriel births, Clutton district, 1912-1914 gives:
Muriel Stockwell
Muriel Fry
Muriel Green
Muriel Flower
Muriel Shearn
No Coles; no Dando?
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I don't think that is the same Rose Dando...
Records I am absolutely concrete on are: Richard J Coles b 1916 district of Clutton - mother's name Dando. (this is my sister's father in law's Dad, so we are concrete on dates, etc.) Only record of a Dando/Coles wedding I can find is a Rose Dando/John Cole in 1913 - I have just ordered this certificate. Family knew that couple as "Rose and Jack", so I am reasonably confident on the right Rose.
The children listed above are all surname Flower (previously thought they were surname Coles)
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The children listed above are all surname Flower (previously thought they were surname Coles)
I had just reached that conclusion! ;D
Mother's maiden name of Kates.
Douglas D, born 1918
Isabella P, born 1920
Reginald D, born 1924
Alec R H T, born 1927
Roy E, born 1930
Marriage, Jyune qtr 1917
Clutton district vol 5c, page 879
Flower, Frederick
Kates, Isabella
I always use FreeBMD (.org.uk) for Birth, Marriage & Deaths lookups.
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That was Frederick Flower's second marriage - he married Emma Bowditch in 1907, but was widowed in 1916 - a maximum of 8 months later (could be earlier), he married again as detailed above!
My sister's father in law knows very scant details about any part of his family. He himself was always told to shut up and lie about his age when his parents were celebrating important wedding anniversaries, due to his mother being 8 months pregnant when she married his Dad!
Wedding was Q3 1941- Father in law's birthday is August 1941!! ;D
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Still not sure where Coles/Dando fits in, if his father was a Flowers?
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Richard J Coles b 1916 clutton
Parents:
Rose Dando b 1886 Clutton
"Jack Coles"
m. 1913 Clutton - Have ordered this certificate but I can find no record of Jack.
Richard J Coles (as above) m
Isabella Pearl Flower b 1920 Clutton
The long list of siblings were thought to be "Jack Coles" siblings, but they actually turn out to be Isabella Flower's siblings. Not Coles after all!
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Right! I have the marriage Certificate!
3rd September 1913
John COLE, 23 years, Bachelor, Coal Miner (Hewer),Hobbs Wall Farmborough, Father William COLE Labourer (Mining).
Rose DANDO, 26 years, Spinster, Hobbs Wall Farmborough, Father George DANDO Miner
At register office in Clutton, Somerset.
Witnessed by Tom Hillard and Emma Hillard
A few things are interesting here.
1. Family name from this generation onward was Coles with a s, not Cole.
2. Rose's Dad is on all other censuses as John Dando/Albert Dando. And now he shows up as George!
Today's job is finding birth records for all of them, and any further census data.
Rose's Dad is going to be an interesting one to pin down I think!
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Hmmmm! You may be following the wrong parents? :-\
1891 census
Class: RG12; Piece: 1926; Folio: 17; Page: 16
Hobs Wall, Farmborough, Somerset
Dando, George Head M 26 Coal Miner b Farmborough
Dando, Keziah Wife F 23 b Lyneham, Wiltshire
Dando, Rosina Daughter F 4 b Farmborough
Dando, Lilly Daughter F 1 b Farmborough
1901 census:
Class: RG13; Piece: 2331; Folio: 18; Page: 14
Hobs Wall, Farmborough, Somerset
Dando, George Head M 35 Coal Miner b Farmborough
Dando, Keziah Wife F 33 b Lyneham, Wiltshire
Dando, Rosina Daughter F 14 General Servant b Farmborough
Dando, Lilly Daughter F 11 b Farmborough
Dando, Annie Daughter F 8 b Farmborough
Dando, Daisy Daughter F 6 b Farmborough
Dando, Arthur Son M 9 months b Farmborough
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I wish I could go back to the 1800s and impress upon people how important it is to use your full actual name in all official documentation, as it creates a logistical nightmare for your descendants trying to trace their family tree in 100 years' time... ;D
Marriage Certificate states Rose, and you'd use "Rosina" if you were a Rosina, wouldn't you? Hmmm.
This is massively complicated now!
Thanks for your help. I think I'm going to try to unravel the Coleses, and then have a think on the Dandos after that!
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It strikes me as a bit odd her using "Rosina/Rosena" on all census data but on her marriage certificate uses "Rose".
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All I can say is:
Right father;
Right address;
Right age;
Perhaps she didn't like "Rosina" and preferred to be known as "Rose"?! ::)
She wouldn't be the first, or the last, to want to be called something different once she reached adulthood! ;D
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Blimming teenagers. ::)
Thanks for your help :)
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Well George DANDO b 1865 - Rosina's Dad - is a bit of a special snowflake as well.
1871 Census has him living with Louisa DANDO, who is purporting to be his mother, along with 3 other siblings, Mary, Martha and Elizabeth.
If you then go back 10 years, Louisa is living with her parents, George DANDO and Elizabeth (nee Bridges)... and her three younger sisters, Mary, Martha and Elizabeth.
In researching, it looks like his Mother may have been Elizabeth (nee BRIDGES) rather than Louisa, as Elizabeth died in 1866, shortly after George was born.
So either his is illegitimate and Louisa is his Mother, or he is Elizabeth's son, and Louisa then stepped in to look after her siblings after her mother died... I have therefore ordered his birth certificate. So that will be sorted out one way or the other shortly. ;D
And then I wonder what happened to Louisa's Dad (George c.1808 DANDO). I find him on 1871 census living with his SON (!). Named Abraham MARTIN. I find the baptism record for Abraham MARTIN, and his parents were a Elizabeth MARTIN, and a George "MARTIN" <cough>. No available marriage record for those two, no census data, and in a totally different village to where George DANDO 1808 had always lived. I have a hunch that someone had a son out of wedlock and to save blushes he is on the baptismal record as being a different surname.
Abraham MARTIN has a seemingly complicated family life as well - he is on the census with children of his first marriage (1848 to Sarah BURTON, Shepton Mallet, who I believe died c1852) in 1871.
His then wife is Patience MARTIN, who has children seemingly from a previous marriage, all surname LEWIS. Then he has children with Patience who all have surname MARTIN.
I cannot find a record of a Patience LEWIS marrying Abraham MARTIN. I have found a record of a Patience CROCKET marrying a Joseph LEWIS (Monmouthshire 1834).
As a final epilogue - George DANDO 1808 - the only birth record I can find for the right place (different year, but that varies across several sets of census data) is of a "baseborn" son. So here endeth the paternal line I think.
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Which all goes to prove the importance of documentary evidence! ;D
Where any family has "problems" birth and marriage certificates (while the may not always tell the whole story) are very helpful, if not essential!! ::)