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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Rahnee1 on Saturday 11 October 14 22:52 BST (UK)
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Hoping someone out there may be able to help me.
I'm looking for the baptism of Charles Sherlock or in fact any record of his family. According to his death certificate, he was born in North Shields in 1877 to Charles Sherlock and Mary Carter. This is basically all I have. Being in Australia, my only resource is Ancestry.com so I'm not sure how accessible these records are. I can't find him or his family in a census or any birth record.
I can find him in Australia as early as 1901 working as an Able Seaman and he married Mary Ellen Whorlton in Melbourne at St Patricks Cathedral in 1904. I have a photo of him in what I believe is a British Army Uniform but I am unable to find any army records for him or any record that he travelled back to the UK.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. He has been in the too hard basket for too long.
Thanks
Suzanne
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Using FreeBMD, I am unable to find any birth registration in the North of England for Charles Sherlock?
There are 7 such births, between 1875 and 1880, but they are all in the south of England!
I am also unable to find a marriage between Charles Sherlock and Mary Carter?
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Thanks for looking. This is all a bit of a mystery.
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Hello! There is a birth that is earlier than the death certificate suggests, but it may be worth looking for him based on this freeBMD entry: December 1861 QTR. SHERLOCK, Charles Herbert Stanley in Tynemouth district. (10b135) Hope this helps! patrexjax
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His parents are Thomas and Sarah (Jackson)! ::)
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Thanks. Who knows. That could be the right one.
I have now come across his age referenced in two different newspaper articles. One article puts his year of birth as 1875 and the other as 1879. Both articles are talking about the same incident.
I've tried looking under the surname of Carter also but found nothing.
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Are you absolutely sure that his birth place is referred to as North Shields, Northumberland, England?
As there is also a North Shields in South Australia? ::) :-X
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I think its probably England as on one of the crew lists he gives his place of birth as South Shields which would be a South Shields, Durham reg. However, may be there is a South Shields in Australia too.
I can't find anything for either Tynemouth or Durham. Or even a birth rec for Charles Carter.
Do you have the mc. If so, what was the occupation of his father?
I wonder who the picture is of the chap in Army uniform. Not up on Military but it looked like an Officer's uniform. Others would possibly know. Is he likely to switch from being a Seaman to enlisting in the Army I wonder. Could that be his father or perhaps a brother.
Vera
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I'm pretty sure its the English North Shields as all documents I have say England.
I do have the marriage certificate.
He was married on 4 March 1904. It states his birthplace as North Shields, North England. He is listed as 27 years old, Occupation a Boatswain and his residence as the SS Coolgardie. It states his parents as Charles Sherlock and Mary Carter and his father is a Boiler Maker.
We have that uniform photo and a photo of his wife. The photos have been hanging on the wall of my Mother in Laws house for many years and have always been known as them. Other family members have them also again referencing them to be Charles and Mary Ellen. I'm yet to come across any other siblings for him, not even as witness to his marriage or death.
Charles is on my husbands side. He is his great grandfather. I've found nothing but frustrations with his side of the family as there are several total dead ends. I'd really love to be able to solve this and progress.
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Per FREE BMD:
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
BIRTH
CARTER Charles June Q 1872 v.10A p.793 S. Shields
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Alas, I think this is the Charles Carter 8 year old son of Dorothy Carter widowed on the 1881 Census and living in Westcoe, South Shields, Durham. Both born South Shields.
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Oh, I got excited for a minute. Thought that might be a possibility.
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I have been trying to wrack my brain as I do a lot of research in Northumberland. Was he Royal Navy or Merchant Navy? I appreciate your frustration! Durham Records online is a good resource, though you do have to pay to see any further with the records. There are some really good resources in the North-East, if only you could go further.
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No luck finding Charles Sherlock born in North Shields
I was having a look at photo of the man in the uniform and it does look like an officer in the British Army. It does seem strange that a man who has always served on ships should join the army.
I was thinking if you posted the photo on the Military Board, I am sure there would be an expert on uniforms who could tell you what the regiment was. You could then follow up that lead.
Chris
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Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions.
I have been unable to find any military record of any sort either navy or army for him. I also find it unusual that he would join the army given his shipping record. I have looked at the Durham records online but found nothing at all.
I have posted the photo on the military board. Hopefully someone can identify it for me, but from previous discussions we were under the impression that its a brtitish army uniform. It will be nice to have confirmation.
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Just throwing this out there...
If Charles Snr was a boilermaker then its possible he too was somehow connected with ships. :-\
There are records of a Charles Sherlock / Shurlock, mariner, b 1848 in either Hyth, Beds according to the 1871 census (RG10; Piece: 3777; Folio: 125; Page: 8;) or Heath Oxford according to the following TNA record:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11738569
In 1871 there is also an unmarried Mary Carter aged 30 from Liverpool lodging at Percy St Tynemouth. The family she is lodging with is also called Carter so may well have been family.
Possibly entirely unconnected but the 1881 census has the following in the Tynemouth Union Workhouse, North Shields:
Catherine Sherlock, 22, b Blyth
Mary Ann Sherlock, 3, b Bedlington
Isabella Sherlock, 1, b Blyth
I cant find Catherine in 1871 so whilst its a long-shot it may be worth getting the birth certificate of one of the children to see who their father was and whether he too was a boilermaker. If nothing else it MAY place Charles the mariner in North Shields at the right time ???
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I have been coming back and forward to that one with the mother Catherine. I couldn't find any obvious connection apart from that she had a brother Charles.
Catherine's maiden name is Gillin/Gillon/Gillen b Bedlington She married an Anthony Sherlock in (if I remember rightly) Morpeth in 1875. Anthony b Ireland and 25 years her Snr. They had two children and by 1881 Catherine and the two children were in Tynemouth workhouse. No Anthony
at that time. Children Mary Ann b Bedlington and Isabella born Blyth. Catherine died 1882 and Isabella 1884. Going off on a tangent I wondered if Catherine had died in childbirth with Charles
and he never really knew his parents or was brought up indeed by a Charles a boilermaker.
Mary Ann goes onto Marry (Watson) and in 1901 Anthony appears but no occupation given - living off his own means.
Sorry not to give the links but disappeared from my history.
PS Do you have the occupation of Charles 1877 from the mc or one of the children's bc's
Vera
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No luck finding Charles Sherlock born in North Shields
I was having a look at photo of the man in the uniform and it does look like an officer in the British Army. It does seem strange that a man who has always served on ships should join the army.
I was thinking if you posted the photo on the Military Board, I am sure there would be an expert on uniforms who could tell you what the regiment was. You could then follow up that lead.
Chris
Here's the thread :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=702477.0
I can confirm it is most likely a chap in the AIF (Australian Imperial Forces).
http://www.awm.gov.au/research/infosheets/served_ww1/
Medals : http://www.anzacday.org.au/education/medals/general/ww1.html Please read that link carefully, re medals awarded for service on board ships, including Mercantile Marine
Cheers, JM
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I have posted the photo on the military board. Hopefully someone can identify it for me, but from previous discussions we were under the impression that its a brtitish army uniform. It will be nice to have confirmation.
The man in the photo has been identified as General Sir John Monash?! :-\
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I have posted the photo on the military board. Hopefully someone can identify it for me, but from previous discussions we were under the impression that its a brtitish army uniform. It will be nice to have confirmation.
The man in the photo has been identified as General Sir John Monash?! :-\
Who identified him as Sir John MONASH?
Cheers, JM
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Obviously I am misunderstanding something here?
On the other thread is a picture of a military gentleman.
majm included a link to General Sir John Monash; in an identical uniform, and bearing a remarkable resemblance to th other picture? :-\
If it wasn't intended as an identification, then I can't for the life of me work out why it was attached/linked? ???
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I was identifying the uniform.
Sir John Monash had protruding ears, and differences in his mo.
Cheers, JM
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Well he definitely seems to be more navy than army. The photo must be of someone else. Articles about Charles Sherlock on Trove. It would definitely be interesting to know if anything is written on the back of the photo, but as it has been scanned in, I assume not.
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Just throwing this out there...
If Charles Snr was a boilermaker then its possible he too was somehow connected with ships. :-\
There are records of a Charles Sherlock / Shurlock, mariner, b 1848 in either Hyth, Beds according to the 1871 census (RG10; Piece: 3777; Folio: 125; Page: 8;) or Heath Oxford according to the following TNA record:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11738569
In 1871 there is also an unmarried Mary Carter aged 30 from Liverpool lodging at Percy St Tynemouth. The family she is lodging with is also called Carter so may well have been family.
Possibly entirely unconnected but the 1881 census has the following in the Tynemouth Union Workhouse, North Shields:
Catherine Sherlock, 22, b Blyth
Mary Ann Sherlock, 3, b Bedlington
Isabella Sherlock, 1, b Blyth
I cant find Catherine in 1871 so whilst its a long-shot it may be worth getting the birth certificate of one of the children to see who their father was and whether he too was a boilermaker. If nothing else it MAY place Charles the mariner in North Shields at the right time ???
I'm liking the look of this unmarried Mary Carter. Also hopeful Catherine may be a sibling perhaps?
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I'm pretty sure the picture is Charles. We have a matching picture of his wife. Other family members also have the pictures and identify them as that couple. Its definitely not Sir John Monash. I believe majm was identifying the uniform.
I've seen the articles on Trove. They certainly add to the picture. And I'm certainly starting to wonder about how much truth is in the information he's provided.