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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: AshkeJ on Friday 10 October 14 21:06 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am hoping that somebody can help ... or offer some advice! I've never ordered a will from Australia before so would like to ask a couple of things before I do so! :D
John Isaac Holborow died 23 July 1881 in Sydney, NSW (he lived in Waterloo, I believe). I have a copy of his death certificate and his marriage certificate and neither are particularly fulsome when it comes to parentage! (His death certificate names a father and mother but I can't find a marriage in England for those names so wonder if the informant only gave the best info they had.)
Searching on the State Records website for NSW I found a will for a John Isaac Holborrow with the same death date as the death certificate. Now, I don't mind spending the £30 or waiting for it to be despatched and arrive, but I wondered if anyone had ever ordered an Australian will from this time or had any thoughts about what to expect ... It is listed as part of 'Series 3' and 'Probate Packet'. I have no problem with emailing the Western Sydney Records Centre in Kingswood and asking them, but thought I'd give it a shot here first! :)
I'm trying to fit this gentleman in with the UK Holborow family and am hoping that there might be some clues in his will to possible siblings or nephews/nieces!
Many thanks,
Dominic
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Hi there,
These probate packets can be very interesting and full of family history info, or just a single page document detailing how a person's estate was dispersed. May I suggest you pause for a moment as sometimes there's RChatters who are planning on visiting the NSW SRO and they can take images of the files for you.
On the other hand, can I please ask about your chap's marriage ..... you mention that it is not particularly fulsome with it comes to his parentage. Was this a NSW marriage from 1856 forward ? If so, it may well be that the NSW BDM received only a summary quarterly return. If it was a NSW marriage, when and where and which denomination?
Cheers, JM
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Something is not quite right here.
I have not found the 1881 death of John Isaac HOLBOROW registered under that surname at the NSW BDM online index. (SEE next post, found ::) indexed with two 'r')
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
I have not found the index entry for a NSW Probate Packet for a John Isaac HOLBOROW who died 1881.
I can find a death and a corresponding Probate for a chap by that name, but the death is far more recent. It is for 1952 and the death is registration # 1079 at NSW BDM. It is indexed as part of Series 4 at NSW SRO Archives Investigator. Died 6 Feb 1952, Probate granted 28 May 1952.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/collection-search
Cheers, JM
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The NSW SRO Deceased Estates index has J I HOLBORROW (two 'r') of Waterloo, DD 23 July 1881, Duty paid 26 August 1884. The remarks column includes the note 'NO FILE' but does give first and middle names.
The newspaper announcements show he had adult sons and daughters.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28381841 25 July 1881 SMH
Cheers, JM
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Ancestry have a death for John I Hollobrow in 1881 in Waterloo, NSW with parents William and Margaret.
This is probably the gentleman Dominic is after.
Pauline
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NSW BDM online also has HOLLOBROW, the reference is #4113.
John I HOLLOWBROW
parents as William and Margaret
registered Waterloo district in 1881.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/bdm_fh.html
and like the NZ BDM you can drill down the dates, so it seems likely this is the same chap that Pauline has noticed at Ancestry.
Cheers, JM
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Probate Packet: John Isaac Holborrow Date of death 23 July 1881, Granted on [not known]
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/Entity.aspx?Path=\Item\303317
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John I HOLBOROW and Johanna CANTWELL lost two sons one in 1903 John HOLBOROW and Isiah HOLBORROW in 1916. They married 1844. No convict ties found. No marriages for daughters under the two names, although one daughter born 1860? Mary B HOLBOROW
When an where in England are you attempting to tie this John Isaac.
If it is same fellow, when Married in 1844 he went under Isaac according to NSW BDM returns.
Neil
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http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/learn/search-our-collections/sands-directory/sands-search
1879 Directory
Waterloo
114 Botany Road – East side
Holborow, John J., woolsorter, (Inspector of nuisances), Buckland St
Cheers, JM
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Hi Dominic,
I am planning to go to NSW Record Office on Tuesday and will photograph for you.
cheers,
Ros
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Oh, JM, please tell me how to be appointed "inspector of nuisances". ;D ::) 8) ;)
There is a public tree which has an image of the death certificate for
John Isaac HOLBOROW, 65,
Died 23 July, 1881 at Botany Rd, Waterloo
Cause of death: phthisis,
Parents: William HOLBOROW, Margaret GREEN
Certified by S HOLBOROW, son
Place of birth England, 40 years in NSW
Buried 26 July at Catholic Necropolis
Married at age 24 to Margaret HURTLE? or HINDE?, Sydney NSW
Childre, 4 males, 2 females, none deceased
The name for his spouse is definitely Margaret with a surname quite hard to read but possibly HURTLE or HINDE. ??? I cannot see mention of this marriage on NSW indexes.
I note that NSW BMD has two index numbers for the marriage of Isaac HOLBOROW and Johanna CANTWELL
2190/1844 V18442190 93 - district LD (Roman Catholic, Sydney, St Mary's)
209/1844 V1844209 121 - district CH (Hexham, Newcastle, Christ Church)
I'm not very good with NSW records so perhaps someone else can have a look and see if this is significant or merely some kind of error.
The marriage certificate for Isaac HOLBOROW and Johanna CANTWELL is also shown on the tree.
NEW SOUTH WALES 2190 Vol 93
Isaac HOLBOROW Member: Roman Catholic Church Abode: Sydney
Johanna CANTWELL Member: Roman Catholic Church Abode: Sydney
29 May 1844, St Mary’s Church
Minister: John McEncroe Religion: Minister of St Mary’s Church Abode: Sydney
Witnesses: C.J. Bullevant of Sydney, Mary Cantwell of Sydney
It would be good to know where you think he may have come from in England. Also I note a number of TROVE entries (and other records) for another HOLBOROW family with possible patriarch Daniel HOLBOROW who was proprietor of a drapery store in George St Sydney in the 1800s. This chap seems to have come from the Gloucestershire area but I haven't had a really good look.
Judith
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At Rookwood Roman Catholic Sec * M1 * A * * 215
John Isaacs HOLBORAN, age 65, burial 25 July 1881
In NSW, the various Inspector of Nuisances were Local Government jobs, (often in charge of the team responsible for the removing of the night soil !)
http://www0.health.nsw.gov.au/aboutus/history/eraend.asp
Cheers, JM
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Thanks JM - hmm perhaps I'm not applying for that job. ;) ::) Judith
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I'm not sure if this is any help whatsoever for you, however.........................
Children listed:
John Isaac's death certificate states that there are 4 male children and 2 female children.
Johanna's death certificate (happy to transcribe if wanted) shows these children - next to the names I have correlated the NSW BMD birth index entries. Johanna died in July 1895. her name is consistent on the entries but Isaac changes to John. Some children not on the index.
Isaac Holborrow 50 years; - 329/1845 V1845329 62 Isaiah, father Isaac
Arthur William Holborrow 47 years; - 4689/1847 V18474689 64 Arthur, father Isaac
John Holborrow 43 years;
Peter Holborrow 40 years;
Esther Moggridge 37 years;
Mary Bridget Holborrow 35 years - 3351/1860 Mary B, father John I
There is another birth
1608/1846 V18461608 63 Patrick A HOLBORROW, parents, Isaac, Johana
There is another birth also which may be of interest given that John Isaac's son has suggested a marriage to a Margaret ??? :-\ Probably a red herring.
575/1846 V1846575 63 Catherine HOLBORROW, parents John Margaret.
Judith
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I think the two registration numbers are only because of submitted returns one from Hexham and one from StMary's. JM to correct me if wrong ::) ;D
Neil
Oh yeh Inspectors of Nuisances also stopped people from Hoicking stuff out the front, off the verandah, Sanity overcame sanitary. :-X
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Holy moly! :o Thanks to everybody for all of that!! ;D
Yes, I was aware of the two marriage entries and ordered the Catholic certificate, hoping that it may have more info on it than the other (Protestant?) marriage - but no parent details were included. Had I realised it was the same one as attached to the Ancestry tree then I would've ordered the other to make sure. I always assumed that one of them was Catholic and one of them not - hence the two marriage entries. I also assumed that it was Johannah who was Catholic as I haven't yet come across any Catholic Holborows in the UK - but that's quite a leap! ;)
I also trawled Trove (great resource that it is - found some great stuff there over the years) for the birth and death announcements of John and Johannah's children. As for the Daniel (mayor of Ashfield), I don't know if Daniel and John were brothers or cousins or quite what - hence hoping the will might have some info.
The Holborow family comes from a very small area of Gloucestershire in England - although over time moved throughout the county and neighbouring ones (there is a separate line in Suffolk - so far I don't know how they connect to the Gloucestershire line - if at all). With it being such a rare surname I have no doubt that the two families in Australia were connected.
The details on the death certificate trouble me somewhat as I can't find a birth entry for an S. Holborow, nor any births with John Isaac and Margaret as parents. Also glad I am not the only one unable to track down a possible marriage!
Daniel's parents were William Wraxall Holborow and Jane Greenman, and he was born in Cromhall, Gloucestershire in or around 1818. I have a number of other children born to William and Jane - and although there is an Isaac there is no John Isaac - and I am reasonably certain that this Isaac married Elizabeth Smith in 1850 in or around Tetbury, Gloucestershire and they had a number of children in England, thus quite possibly discounting him from being the Australian John Isaac.
Thank you for the details from Johannah's death certificate and the overall list of her children. Interesting regards the daughter (Esther) who married a Moggridge ... A different branch of the Holborow family moved to New York in the 1850s and one of the sons (also called Isaac) married an Elizabeth Ann Mogridge there in 1867! No idea about the Patrick and the Catherine ...
Apologies if this is a bit of a rambling response ...!
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I think the two registration numbers are only because of submitted returns one from Hexham and one from StMary's. JM to correct me if wrong ::) ;D
Yes, more often than not the reason for two, and sometimes up to four or five, different reference nos. for marriages prior to 1 March 1856 (commencement of civil registrations) is simply the record of the ONE marriage, being transmitted through the various NSW Chaplains to the Sydney office. Christ Church, Hexham in the 1840s was of course where C P N Wilton was stationed. I have spent some time going through the online images (via Rootschat links, see below), but I have not located that ceremony in the parish register that has been imaged. There were of course at least two registers operating concurrently (one as a back up for the other). While it is at least unusual to find a RC ceremony in a C of E register in the 1840s, it would not be unusual back earlier in NSW Early Church Records (particularly in the decade of the 1810s and into the 1820s). But it would definitely be unusual for two separate ceremonies to be held for the marriage of the one couple, one a RC service and one a C of E service.
The Early Church Records for RC services in the Newcastle district are usually coded LK or LL. The NSW Parliament passed Acts for RC services in about 1834, so these would not have needed to be transmitted via C of E registers, but via RC registers to St Marys Cathedral in Sydney.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/short-guide-4
Vol 121 is shown as " Supplementary Registers - Baptisms, Burials and Marriages, 1827-1901" (EDIT after reading Dundee's later post ..... I have drawn line through "Burials and Marriages" to better reflect the accuracy of the NSW SRO guide's mention re Vol 121 that I have linked, so please See Dundee's later post re Vol 121 - 123)
There are flaws in the NSW BDM indexes. Perhaps CH has been wrongly coded to this particular marriage.
I will pull thinking cap down a tad harder :)
BUT if anyone is about to order that document, please please please, do not waste your pennies on the real deal certificate, and instead consider ordering an official transcription. In both instances you will only get a typed transcription, and the Official Transcription Agents are cheaper and will send through as an email attachment, and if you order the full transcription, that is as good as the real deal document for family history purposes.
There are in fact at least THREE registrations for that 1844 marriage :)
Vol 93, Line 2190, Isaac HOLBOROW and Johanna CANTWELL, registered LD
Vol 121, Line 209, Isaac HOLBOROW and Johanna CANTWELL, registered CH
Vol 131, Line 209, Isaac HOBERTON, and Johanna CANTWELL, registered LD
Now, re Christ Church Cathedral, Hexham and the images of the registers there.... Thanks to RChat NSW resources board http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=369703.0
here's the links
Baptisms, Marriages, Burials, Christ Church Cathedral, Newcastle
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606066769147/ 1820 – 1899 Family Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605008173551/ 1826 – 1837 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157604433014652/ 1837 – 1838 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605132739200/ 1839 – 1861 Baptisms, Marriages, Burials
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605674610949/ 1856 – 1868 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605785759029/ 1869 – 1885 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605802132868/ 1885 – 1897 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606197590347/ 1899 – 1913 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157605928662968/ 1913 – 1914 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606308436455/ 1914 – 1916 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606323070651/ 1916 – 1918 Marriages Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606450662513/ 1918 – 1929 Marriage Register
http://www.flickr.com/photos/uon/sets/72157606952230042/ 1929 – 1936 Marriages Register
Cheers, JM
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https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTD6-2FN Peter Joseph H's baptism
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTD2-BY2 John Isaac (the son) 's baptism
So some further spellings of the family name :)
Holborough for Peter Joseph
Halbrow for John Isaac, son of Isaac :)
Cheers, JM
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So some further spellings of the family name :)
You have no idea how many different permutations I've seen in records over the years!! ::)
Thank you for these baptisms and all the other info, JM, it is very much appreciated!
With regard your point about buying the transcription versus the certificate, I believe when I purchased there was no option for the transcription of that particular one otherwise I definitely would have! Whilst I don't mind spending the money where I need to, its always good to spend less where possible! (Does that make me sound cheap??? :-X)
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Well, the NSW BDM is putting the V numbers back into the Early Church Records Indexes, (JM sighs )
In 1851 John I HALBROW’s baptism is registered twice. Volume 141, line 882 and Volume 68, line 1348 with parents as Isaac and Johannah. Volume 68 is definitely for 1851 and for Roman Catholic Baptisms. Vol 141 is for supplementary registrations.
In 1854, Vol 71, line 1059, Peter J HOLBOROUGH, parents as Isaac and Johannah, Vol 71 is Roman Catholic Baptisms.
Answering OP's question ..... No, not cheap, just making sure your penny wise, to become pound wiser for further family history certs :) :) ADD, any ECR in volumes HIGHER than 123 you must get from NSW BDM as they have these. Vol 1 - 123 are imaged and originals no longer accessible to general public and archived at State Records. (That may have changed in the past decade, but that's the way it was back pre about 2000)
Cheers, JM
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Johanna & Mary CANTWELL (sisters) arrived together on the 'Alfred' 19 Jan 1841.
CANTWELL Johanna 20yrs, Single, Nursery Governess and Housemaid, Roman Catholic, Read & Write.
CANTWELL Mary 23yrs, Single, Nursery Governess, Roman Catholic, Read & Write.
They were from Cahir, Tipperary, Ireland.
Their parents were William a shopkeeper & Margaret CANTWELL.
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Vol 121 is shown as " Supplementary Registers - Baptisms, Burials and Marriages, 1827-1901"
Cheers, JM
Vol 121-123 are Supplementary Registers - Baptisms, Burials and Marriages, 1827-1901
Vol 121 specifically is Baptisms 1830-1901 Supplementary Register ???
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/short-guide-4/volumes-1-123-1/volumes-1-123
Debra :)
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So the Daniel HOLBOR(R)OW who had the drapery business is related to your Gloucestershire HOLBORROWs?
I could not see any overlap between John Isaac and Daniel on TROVE although they lived quite near each other in Sydney at around the same time and with such an unusual surname. Daniel seemed to do very well building a big house out at Croydon.
Good finds, JM and Merlin.
I wonder if John Isaac's son has inadvertently mixed up the mothers and attributed a mother called Margaret to his father,rather than his mother.
There is a sad story in these TROVE articles re Esther MOGGRIDGE and Mary HOLBOROW being involved with infanticide in 1894. Esther went on to be charged with this matter.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/25682363
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/44100638
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/114084685
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/124731311
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/114084718
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/114077557
The trial was listed for June 1894 but I cannot see any reports of the tril.
The next TROVE mentions for Esther MOGGRIDGE seem to be death and funeral notices in August, 1931
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16807317
Judith
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So the Daniel HOLBOR(R)OW who had the drapery business is related to your Gloucestershire HOLBORROWs?
Yes he is - although Daniel's 2 x great-grandfather was my 6 x great-grandfather so the link between us directly is pretty slim. ;)
I could not see any overlap between John Isaac and Daniel on TROVE although they lived quite near each other in Sydney at around the same time and with such an unusual surname.
No indeed - which is one reason I'm not certain they were brothers ... even cousins seems to stretch what I already know about the Holborows - but I wouldn't say that I have every English Holborow slotted into the overall Holborow tree that I have!
I wonder if John Isaac's son has inadvertently mixed up the mothers and attributed a mother called Margaret to his father,rather than his mother.
I was thinking just the same thing as I was reading. It does seem a little coincidental.
There is a sad story in these TROVE articles re Esther MOGGRIDGE and Mary HOLBOROW being involved with infanticide in 1894. Esther went on to be charged with this matter.
Yes - I'd come across references to this before. A distressing case, indeed. I find it odd that Esther's husband isn't mentioned in any way, other than the fact that she was "living away" from him.
Thanks again! :D
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I wonder if John Isaac's son has inadvertently mixed up the mothers and attributed a mother called Margaret to his father,rather than his mother.
Judith
...and I wonder how he didn't even know his own mother's name ;D
Debra :)
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Waiting with bated breath for the Probate packet...............
I am not seeing any entry for John/Isaac HOLBOR(R)OW into NSW.
I note that there are a couple of mentions of D HOLBORROW arriving 1839 from (via?) Launceston (Tasmania or Cornwall?) - I assume that's Daniel but can't see anything for John/Isaac.
The first mention of an Isaac HOLBOROW in Sydney is 18 June 1844 - an advertisement dissolving partnership of himself and William LYNCH. Isaac will continue the business alone as a butcher.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12426425
You may have already seen this photo which includes Daniel HOLBOROW's shop - I found the photo through TROVE.
http://collection.hht.net.au/firsthhtpictures/picturerecord.jsp?recno=37850
The "David Jones & Co" outfitters has become a large department store with branches in many Australian cities.
Another street view of D HOLBOROW's shop
http://www.photosau.com.au/cos/scripts/ExtSearch.asp?SearchTerm=087512
Judith
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From outside the square ...... there's a Thomas MAGGS, transported to VDL and he was also known as HOLBROW
http://www.convictrecords.com.au/convicts/maggs/thomas/109007
Sorry, but I am still getting my head around the new Tas Archives site, it seems fantastic, but grey cells still absorbing and fingers still learning what buttons to click on ..... ::)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=701679.0
Cheers, JM
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Oh dear, it's as bad as when the supermarket revamps and you can't find things. ::) However once I've got my brain in gear I guess I'll manage it! 8)
Thomas MAGGS, alias HOLBROW was convicted of burglary at Taunton Assizes 29 March 1823. Held on the hulk Justitia at Woolwich before transportation 15 July 1823. The register of hulks gives his age as 19 in 1923 so he's a bit older than John Isaac - however economies with the truth are not unknown ::)
Tasmanian records give him as 'missing' or 'absconded' by 1826. Quite a tricky enterprise to abscond from Tasmania. :-\
Judith
Judith
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Was that 40 years in NSW on the 1865 dc ? 1865 - 1826 = 40 :)
There is a public tree which has an image of the death certificate for
John Isaac HOLBOROW, 65,
Died 23 July, 1881 at Botany Rd, Waterloo
Cause of death: phthisis,
Parents: William HOLBOROW, Margaret GREEN
Certified by S HOLBOROW, son
Place of birth England, 40 years in NSW
Buried 26 July at Catholic Necropolis
Married at age 24 to Margaret HURTLE? or HINDE?, Sydney NSW
Children, 4 males, 2 females, none deceased
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Yes 40 years in NSW but the d o d was 1881 so = 1841 arrival but if he was really Thomas MAGGS....
I'm not very convinced about Thomas MAGGS but it's a possible. Judith
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Agh, 65 years of age ! well, trust me to read something without my specs on my nose !
Cheers, JM
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Waiting with bated breath for the Probate packet...............
You and I both!
I note that there are a couple of mentions of D HOLBORROW arriving 1839 from (via?) Launceston (Tasmania or Cornwall?) - I assume that's Daniel but can't see anything for John/Isaac.
I believe Tasmania - its mentioned in his obituary that he arrived on the barque Annie Watson and the corresponding passenger manifest suggests Tasmania and not Cornwall - the journey was only 4 days.
Thanks also for those photos/maps of Daniel's shop - I'm always amazed at what information lies out there!
Yes, I had come across this Thomas Maggs alias Holbrow character before but had discounted him as a possible for John Isaac Holborow based on the dates on his death certificate. Although if he was a convict and had "absconded" then perhaps he would've been somewhat economical with the truth ... although for now I am discounting him as a candidate!
Interesting about the lack of possibilities regarding his arrival in NSW - if he wasn't on any of the manifests, does it mean that he may have come from a neighbouring state? I have to confess that I'm somewhat woolly with Australian history off the top of my head and when each statehood was granted - but could he have come overland via Victoria?
Ahh - I have now searched the online indexes (only the Index of Assisted Immigrants is available for the period in question) and can't find a single Holborow/Holbrow/Holborrow/Holborough ...
Thanks for all the effort you guys are extending on this fellow! I really do appreciate it! ;D Looking forward greatly to receiving the images of the probate packet following Ros' visit on Tuesday! I'll definitely share anything here!
Dom
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Absconding in the 1820s .... likely needed to stowaway on a coastal trader to Sydney, or perhaps on a transport returning with garrison forces completing a tour of duty, perhaps to Madras. Victoria was hived off from NSW in 1851. The Henty Bros date their agricultural settlement at Port Phillip from around 1834 (I remember some things from my Social Studies at Primary School :) ). So there basically wasn't any overland route from Port Phillip to Sydney in the 1820s, as Sir Thomas Mitchell (Surveyor General) did not get to Australia Felix until around 1836.
Could that Thomas MAGGS perhaps be father or Uncle or brother to John Isaacs born about 1816? Perhaps worth keeping him on the distant horizon.
We also need to remember that there's many passenger lists where the steerage passengers are just recorded as a number, and of course, not all passenger lists are extant, and of those, not all are available online.
Cheers, JM
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I wonder if John Isaac's son has inadvertently mixed up the mothers and attributed a mother called Margaret to his father,rather than his mother.
Judith
...and I wonder how he didn't even know his own mother's name ;D
Debra :)
It may not be an issue of "not knowing his own mother's name". It may be an issue of misunderstanding the question he was asked, by the person filling in the form.
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Victoria was hived off from NSW in 1851. The Henty Bros date their agricultural settlement at Port Phillip from around 1834 (I remember some things from my Social Studies at Primary School :) ). So there basically wasn't any overland route from Port Phillip to Sydney in the 1820s, as Sir Thomas Mitchell (Surveyor General) did not get to Australia Felix until around 1836.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_Hume
Hamilton Hume and William Hovell walked directly to Melbourne in 1824.
There's a reason why the main street in Coburg is called Sydney Road, and in other places it is called .... guess.
Mitchell travelled via Balranald and Kerang and discovered the more fertile "western district" of Victoria, quite a bit later, as you say.
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Hamilton Hume and William Hovell walked directly to Melbourne in 1824.
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/hume-hamilton-2211
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/hovell-william-hilton-2202
Hume and Hovell
These two explorers left Gunning in October 1824, for Westernport, and, instead, they errrrr :) got to Corio Bay, Port Phillip, and were back at Gunning by 18 January 1825. Melbourne of course, had not yet been been named ! or even established. As a result of the report Hume and Hovell made to the Governor Brisbane, Brisbane then decided to send a party to Westernport by SEA (not overland). This party did not leave Sydney until late in 1826, and did not get back to Sydney until 1827. It is my understanding that there was no direct overland permanent track, frequented by settlers or absconding convicts until after Mitchell’s 1836 explorations.
We are talking about hundreds of miles (550 or so miles) here across some difficult terrain, Melbourne to Sydney as a possibility for an absconding VDL based convict from before 1826.
Add
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Victoria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coburg,_Victoria
Cheers, JM.
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Hi Dom,
I'm afraid the probate packet is very disappointing .... most disappointing I've ever seen :(.
There wasn't a will and he died intestate. The "probate" packet contains statements from the children stating let Mum have it while she's alive (or similar).
Give me a while to upload, rotate and share the photos and then I'll send you a link.
regards,
Ros
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Bummer! ::)
This man seems to have arrived out of nowhere, stayed out of the newspapers and quietly shuffled off again.
Ros, you are doing a great job with these look-ups :)
Judith
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I totally agree with Judith ..... Bummer, and of course with the grand job that Ros does.
Well Done, Ros.
Well I guess it is onward with more searchings for John Isaac H.
Cheers, JM
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Well hopefully I have saved Dom from needlessly spending money :) (but nothing else :( )
cheers,
Ros
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Well hopefully I have saved Dom from needlessly spending money :) (but nothing else :( )
cheers,
Ros
And for that you have my eternal gratitude ;)
Seriously though - thank you very much for doing the look-up and sending through the photos! No, it might not have given me what I wanted but its all grist to the mill and everyone loves a good mystery! Onward and upward and back with the thinking caps for Mr. H. His baptism at least must exist somewhere - and it may just not be online at the moment so I might have to get my butt to the Gloucestershire Record Office (luckily the Wiltshire Record Office is only a short drive away from where I live) and start trawling through PRs and BTs myself! Of course - I am assuming that he comes from my side of the country!
Once again thank you to everybody else who has contributed! ;D
I'll let you guys know if I find anything new ...
Dom