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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: Juliepen on Thursday 09 October 14 21:33 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I'm a little stuck with my cousins father, Alfred, and his grandfather David Livingstone as named above.
I know my cousins(Harry) father was called Alfred Henry Pitt Livingstone, and he married Lizzie Hill. I also know that Alfred was a little younger than Lizzie.
Alfreds father was named David Livingstone, but we are unsure of where the Pitt came from, as my cousin is not Pitt Livingstone, just Livingstone, and Alfreds father was only Livingstone too.
I have searched the census' and have found a Jane Pitt(head)39 from Birmingham living with David Livingstone(boarder)37 from London, with a son Alfred Pitt, who is 10 months old from Birmingham, putting him born in June 1910, in Aston, the right area.
Jane states she was married for 3 years, but now a widow.
By my reckoning, if Alfred was born in June, her husband should have died after he was conceived. I have searched the bmd's firstly, for a wedding for Jane marrying someone Pitt within the three years before Alfred was conceived/born, and have hit a brick wall, then I have searched for a death for someone Pitt in the area during the time before Alfred was born, and again have found nothing.
I have also searched for an Alfred Henry Pitt, and Alfred Henry Pitt Livingstone birth that fits this time frame, and have come up empty handed.
Further to this, I know that David Livingstone had 2 children, Doris J, born 1913, and David born 1911. Jane must have been pregnant before the marriage as there is less than 6 months between wedding and David(the sons) birth.
I have found a marriage of David Livingstone, to Jane Reynolds in 1911, and both Doris and Davids mothers maiden name is Reynolds. Good so far.
I have speculated that Jane Pitt was Jane Reynolds before she was married the first time, and wondered if this was where the Pitt Livingstone name came from, as Alfred was not Davids, but that he adopted him as his own when they married. However, I can find no record of Jane Reynolds marrying anybody Pitt within the time.
Alfred Henry Pitt Livingstone was married under that name(Alfred H P Livingstone), and also died under that name, but was not born under that name.
Can anyone see a link that I have missed, or help me to discover whether David Livingstone did marry Jane Pitt, who was maybe formerly Jane Reynolds, and who was her first husband.
All help gratefully received.
Many thanks
JuliePen.
xxx
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Widowed women normally married again under their married name?
So if David Livingstone married Jane Reynolds, and Reynolds was hre maiden name (as per the children's births) then it is unlikely she was married before?
But the best way to prove this is to buy the marriage certificate!
That will tell you who David actually married, her status, and any former names.
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Hi
I know my cousins(Harry) father was called Alfred Henry Pitt Livingstone, and he married Lizzie Hill.
Alfreds father was named David Livingstone,
Did this info come from the 1936 marriage cert or elsewhere?
When and where was he born? The marriage was in 1936 so you need to establish his age when he married. A copy of his marriage cert will show his fathers name -unless you have already confirmed that info.
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Alfred's death registration in 1942 shows his birthyear as approx 1909 - he was 33 when he died in the December qtr
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The only Alfred Pitt birth registration, in Birmingham, I can see is:
March qtr 1910
Aston district vol 6d, page 363
Pitt, Alfred Cornelius J
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Thanks KGarrad, I had no idea that a marriage certificate gave any previous names as well as maiden name. I think I will have to send for the certificate.
Also, CaroleW, I knew his at his death, he was fairly young, and the approx birth year you have given if it is the Alfred Pitt that was Jane Pitts son would be out by 1 year. However I can only find a birth in Aston for an Alfred Cornelius J Pitt in the March q of 1910, and nothing in 1909 in this area, just Alfred Cyril Pitt born in Chipping Sodbury.
My cousin Harry has told me that he knew his father was a few years younger than his mother, and his mother was born in 1905 in Birmingham, so 1909/10 for his birth which was in the Birmingham area would be correct. I just can't seem to find it.
JuliePen.
xx
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There's an Alfred Henry P Reynolds birth Jun 1909 Solihull :-\
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KGarrad,
The information about Harrys grandfather being called David Livingstone, came from Harry. His mother used to talk about him, so I know that to be correct.
Julie
xx
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Oh Milliepede, that looks promising. And even the initials fit. I will try and get this birth certificate to check the parents names. Thanks.xx
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It's a shame it was just P and not Pitt to clinch it more but fingers crossed.
I'm thinking his father was called Pitt, possibly Alfred/Henry or both, and perhaps Jane claimed to be married/widowed for respectability. But she was really single and Jane Reynolds.
Anyway that's just speculation on my part! If you do get the certificate please come back and let us know :)
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I agree, it is a shame, but we shall see. I wondered too if his father was called Pitt. It would explain a lot, but he is the only Pitt Livingstone I can find, and the name wasn't carried on later either, as his son Harry was just Livingstone. I will send for the certificate next week, and keep you updated, to close the thread.
Oddly enough though, I cannot find Jane Reynolds, or Alfred Henry in 1911. I wonder if they were living away, or just not registered.
Thanks for your help. xx
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Hi all,
Have just looked again at 1911, and can't believe I missed the fact that it says Alfred Pitt was 1 year and 10 months old, not just 10 months, so this does actually put his birth properly at June 1909, so the Jane and Alfred Pitt in 1911 is the correct one, with David Livingstone as a boarder. From this information, I have now gone back to 1871 so far, finding out that Jane was not born in 1872 as I first worked out, but in 1870, I have found all of her family, to include her brothers, one called Harry, and one called Alfred(so that is where the names came from). I will definately be sending for the wedding certificate, and Alfreds birth certificate now. xx