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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: muckandtwigs on Tuesday 07 October 14 17:56 BST (UK)

Title: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: muckandtwigs on Tuesday 07 October 14 17:56 BST (UK)
Being a William and having always been addressed as Billy, a lady asked me why people called William are called Billy? How could I be expected to know, it's only a recent thing with me,  (the last 70 years).
 
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: conahy calling on Tuesday 07 October 14 18:04 BST (UK)
http://mentalfloss.com/article/24761/origins-10-nicknames

Link gives some info on your query.

The other names on the link are

Dick     =       Richard
Hank             Henry
Jack              John
Chuck           Charles
Peggy           Margaret
Ted               Edward
Harry            Henry
Jim               James
Sally             Sarah     :)
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: pinefamily on Wednesday 08 October 14 05:27 BST (UK)
And then it only gets really confusing when Ted can also be short for Theodore. Don't get me started with Bert.......  ::)
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: muckandtwigs on Wednesday 08 October 14 08:43 BST (UK)
I can see the Ted in Theodore and the Bert in Albert, but where is the 'B' in William.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 08 October 14 08:58 BST (UK)
I think it's partly rhyming tradition (e.g. Dick for Rick?), and partly because hard consonants are easier to pronounce?

So, Richard became Rich, then Rick, then Dick.
William became Willy or Will, and then Billy or Bill.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 08 October 14 09:39 BST (UK)
Why Peggy for Margaret?

Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: pinefamily on Wednesday 08 October 14 09:40 BST (UK)
Bert was/is Albert, Wilbert, Norbert, Bertram, but why not Robert?
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: loobylooayr on Wednesday 08 October 14 09:46 BST (UK)
Bert was/is Albert, Wilbert, Norbert, Bertram, but why not Robert?

Bert/ Bertie can be short for Robert in Scotland  ::)  (Trust us ...)
I'd an Uncle Bertie whose "proper name " was Robert and I know of 2 other Berts who started out as Roberts.

Looby :)
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 08 October 14 09:46 BST (UK)
I had a great uncle Bertie, which I always thought was short for something, but later found his birth was registered as Bertie.

On other side of family had a great aunt Daisy, who I had great trouble finding marriage record for, until I was told by another relative that her real name was Marguerite - which as gardeners will know is a posh daisy
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 08 October 14 09:53 BST (UK)
Why Peggy for Margaret?

Same reasons as I said before?!

Margaret can be shortened to Meg, Maggie or Meggie.
Changing to a hard consonant gives us Peg and Peggy?
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Jebber on Wednesday 08 October 14 10:08 BST (UK)
How about Polly for Mary?
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: loobylooayr on Wednesday 08 October 14 10:12 BST (UK)
How about Polly for Mary?

Mary----Molly----Polly (I think??? )
 ;D
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: pinefamily on Wednesday 08 October 14 10:54 BST (UK)
I have also seen Molly for Matilda. As well as Tilly.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: cavvytri on Wednesday 08 October 14 11:34 BST (UK)
yes I had an Aunt Polly who was a Mary, an Aunt Daisy who was a Marguerite and an Aunt Peggy who was a Margaret!
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Josephine on Wednesday 08 October 14 12:03 BST (UK)
And people named Sarah who are called Sadie.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Drosybont on Wednesday 08 October 14 12:05 BST (UK)
The one which baffled me for quite a while was a Martha Jane known as Pat in the family until she was in her late teens.  1850s to 1860s, family living in Cardiff but came from Pembrokeshire.  Mother switched between the two in her diary, thought at first there were two daughters, finally sorted it when the girl fell on the way to market, noted under one name, and was laid up in bed with a bad leg the next day, under the other name!  Pat seems to have been a commonly used family name for Martha Jane in Pembrokeshire, not sure about elsewhere.  No idea why.

Drosybont
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Marmalady on Wednesday 08 October 14 12:47 BST (UK)
Martha --- Mattie ---- Pattie

My husband had a Great Aunt Pattie who was really a Martha  (Derbyshire)


But a real puzzler is Bunty for Margaret -- any ideas?
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 08 October 14 12:51 BST (UK)
I don't think Bunty is short for anything?
It appears to be a dialect word that means plump?! ;D

http://www.britishbabynames.com/blog/2012/09/bunty.html
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Bee on Wednesday 08 October 14 13:04 BST (UK)
After his death I learned that my Uncle Dick was actually called Arthur  :o
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: LizzieW on Wednesday 08 October 14 13:09 BST (UK)
I was at school with a girl called Marlene,(pronounced Mar-leen) her real names were Martha Helene.  With such lovely names, why would her parents take part of each name and call her Marlene.  I guess they liked Marlene Dietrich, but all we girls could think of was Beryl Reid playing Marlene with a Brummy accent in Educating Archie.

Lizzie

ps.  That rather gives my age away  ::)
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 08 October 14 13:13 BST (UK)
My Father was John William but was known as Bill...My Brother is Herbert William and is also known as Bill.

Other Family nicknames:

Aunt Helen = Nellie

Uncle Eric = Ned

Aunt Georgina = Jinnie

Grandma Marguerite = Peg

Granddad Edward = Ted...(Theodore Roosevelt is to blame for this)  ;D

Mother Rose Kathleen = Kay

Most of these I can understand where the nicknames come from  but how on earth could Eric become Ned?

Carol



Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Marmalady on Wednesday 08 October 14 13:27 BST (UK)
I don't think Bunty is short for anything?
It appears to be a dialect word that means plump?! ;D

http://www.britishbabynames.com/blog/2012/09/bunty.html

maybe Bunty = Margaret is a regional thing then
When I asked my mother why her sister Margaret was known as Bunty, she said it was quite a common abbreviation for Margaret in Yorkshire
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: pinefamily on Wednesday 08 October 14 13:38 BST (UK)
After his death I learned that my Uncle Dick was actually called Arthur  :o
When I started tracing my family history many moons ago, I sat down with my auntie, and got a list of all of my uncles' details. Imagine my surprise when I found out Uncle Dick had the Christian names of Walter Vincent.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: jan57 on Wednesday 08 October 14 14:00 BST (UK)
 I've a  2x great aunt    who  was known  as Dinah,   but  her  real  name was Alice Maud ,   still haven't worked  out   the reason ! ........ Any   ideas ?
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Wednesday 08 October 14 17:06 BST (UK)
With some family names occurring in every generation in my lot (sometimes there would be several bearers of the same first names in one single generation, counting cousins etc), there came to be loads of variations e.g: Thomas - Tom - Tommy - Tam - Tammy and so on. I expect the same thing could have happened in most families. Certainly we had William-Will - Bill - Willie - Willam - Billy - Willy . Perhaps that's simply how all these started off, desperate attempts not to confuse family members one with another...?
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: muckandtwigs on Wednesday 08 October 14 17:38 BST (UK)
A link suggests a Medievil habit of changing letters and also of William 111 being called King Billy,  but is their historic record of him being called King Billy in the 17th cent. or is it a more modern thing.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: LFS on Wednesday 08 October 14 22:30 BST (UK)
I was told a Bunty was a hand reared lamb.  So its a pet name!
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Malcolm33 on Wednesday 08 October 14 23:32 BST (UK)
   One name that has some strange variations is AGNES.
   I think the most usual nick name would be Nancy and that is the name that Burns used in his poem "The Soldier's Return" which takes place in Coylton where my great great grandmother Agnes Currie once lived -
   "I thought upon the banks o’ Coil,
    I thought upon my Nancy,"

    But other variations for Agnes are,  Aggie, Nessie, Senga, Una and Oonadh.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: pinefamily on Wednesday 08 October 14 23:47 BST (UK)
I always thought Nancy was a variation for Ann or Anne.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Malcolm33 on Thursday 09 October 14 01:16 BST (UK)
I always thought Nancy was a variation for Ann or Anne.

   Apparently that is one of a number of variations.   I just had a quick look on the net and one person has written that their family has used Nancy for Agnes for 10 generations.   It makes research so difficult when a family uses both in different records.   Just something to be on the look out for.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Billyblue on Thursday 09 October 14 11:02 BST (UK)
My mother's sister Agnes Anne was always known as Sally.

Another of her sisters, Mary Ellen, was always known as Mainie.

And my aunt Georgina was always known as Biddy.

??? ??? ???
Dawn M
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 09 October 14 15:22 BST (UK)
My mother's name was Agnes and she got called Nancy or Nan Husband's name Alexander and he gets Lexie  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Fergie38 on Thursday 09 October 14 23:08 BST (UK)
My name is Robert but spent most of my life called Bobby.
Never made the connection
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: EdCan on Friday 10 October 14 00:59 BST (UK)
Why Ann for Jane or vice versa. I have a mother and daughter both baptised Jane. Mother married as Jane and both show on census as Jane. However both deaths shown as Ann. I found the mother's death but gave up buying certs for the daughter who never married. By the way I have two sisters- an Ann and a Jane.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Friday 10 October 14 17:24 BST (UK)
I thought for a long time that a dead relative was called "Cecilia", and thought that was such a pretty name and so different from the everyday names the rest of that family seemed to have. Then I found out that it was not that her name was abbreviated from "Cecilia" to "Cissie / Cissy" but rather that she was the eldest sister of the family, and that it was an abbreviation of "Sister" - and her name was a prosaic "Annie Elizabeth", as mundane as those of the rest of that batch! What a let-down.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Malcolm33 on Friday 10 October 14 19:30 BST (UK)
  This thread demonstrates how we can be misled by familiar names used in a family.    My late aunt wrote to me back in 1983 as follows - "I remember her well.   She came over for her last visit to England when I was about 12 and I remember her talking to my father and these were the words she said.   “Well Ned this will be the last time I shall come over to the old country."

    Aunt Connie was referring to one of her aunts and what she had said about my grandfather, whom I once only knew by his first name of 'Albert'.    It turned out that he had been christened as 'Albert Edwin', yet a letter I now have was signed by him as 'Albert Edward'.   I later learned that he had always hated the name 'Edwin' and changed it himself to Edward.

     For that aunt from America to call him 'Ned' tells me that he must have really stuck to his adopted middle name of 'Edward' even in the afterlife as I shall explain.

     When my late wife Edith whom we always called 'Ede' died in May 2007 I came down to Melbourne from Cairns for a couple of weeks to stay with my daughter.    On the second night I was suddenly woken by Ede shouting out "Malcolm Can You Hear me".    It was very loud and woke me up immediately in something of a fright.  But the room was empty and dark.  The next night the same thing happened to Fiona.   Consequently I decided to go into the city the next day, seek out the VSU and ask for a short reading from a medium.    I had never ever been there before and they wouldn't even take my second name when booking me in.    The first thing I was told by the medium was that my grandfather was there and that his name was Edward.  Then he told me that my father's name was Edward - it was actually John Edward and we never used his second name.    And then came the big shock.   The medium sat upright and asked me very strongly "Who is Edith", then without stopping he went on to say that we called her Eadie or Ede.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Malcolm33 on Friday 10 October 14 19:50 BST (UK)
   When I see a middle name that is more often known as a surname I tend to search for a possible ancestor with that name.    It can be a trap.   Apparently Alex Salmond's middle names of Elliot and Anderson have nothing to do with his own family but it is a tradition in his family to name children after the local Church of Scotland Minister.  (Source Wikipedia).
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Countryquine on Friday 10 October 14 20:31 BST (UK)
Bunty seems to be for Mary in this neck of the woods
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: jaybelnz on Saturday 11 October 14 10:42 BST (UK)
I was told a Bunty was a hand reared lamb.  So its a pet name!
I think that is just lovely!  I really do, and it's a lovely complement to her parents!
Aww .. I'm all overcome!

Jeanne :)
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: lisalucie on Thursday 16 October 14 17:54 BST (UK)
My great grandad Noah was one of 5 (I remember some of them)... They all had shortened/abbreviated names... Isaac was uncle Ike, Joseph was Jo, Sarah Ann was Saran and Harriet was lace (???). Grandad was always called nipper but that's cus he was the youngest x
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: suey on Thursday 16 October 14 18:24 BST (UK)

where is the 'B' in William.

 ??? Because it's better than Willy perhaps.

My husbands family has two Ellen Alicia's both perfectly nice names but both were known as Nellie!

My mother was Edith but hated being called Edie so reverted to her middle name, can't say I blame her. ;D
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: muckandtwigs on Thursday 16 October 14 19:40 BST (UK)
I wonder what they will think in the future about some of today's names? I see in today's paper a lady has called her twin girls 'Frankiee' and 'Georgie'   ( that's how they are spelt.)
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: osprey28 on Thursday 16 October 14 23:17 BST (UK)
I had an old Aunt who was called Mirran.   It wasn't until a long time after her death that I got her birth cert and found her name was actually Mary Anne.

Osprey
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Mark1973 on Friday 14 November 14 14:04 GMT (UK)
On my Irish side we use the last 4 letters instead of the first 4 in William, Liam  ;D
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Malcolm33 on Friday 14 November 14 19:38 GMT (UK)
On my Irish side we use the last 4 letters instead of the first 4 in William, Liam  ;D

Turn it around and you've got mail :)
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Billyblue on Saturday 15 November 14 00:29 GMT (UK)
Another variation for Sally.

Indexing a Queensland country newspaper from 2002 for Ryerson Index the other day, I came across

BREDHAUER, Dorothy May Alexandra (Sally).

??? ??? ???

Dawn M
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Minimoo on Sunday 16 November 14 16:53 GMT (UK)
My father who was Charles Arthur was always known as Douglas or Doug. I have never known why.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Jed59 on Tuesday 18 November 14 20:24 GMT (UK)
Mum's cousin was always knows Uncle Joe......his name was William Edward//   seems his wife didn't like thiose names and decided  on Joe!
Also another cousin of hers was called Mary but it seems   either she or someone else couldn't say that as a child ..it came out as Mamie!
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: spices on Tuesday 18 November 14 20:29 GMT (UK)
We had been looking for husbands cousin DUNCAN could not find any records-- Why not you might well ask, his name was LANCELOT
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 19 November 14 08:17 GMT (UK)
One of my great uncles was always known as Mont - so I thought it was short for Montague. Discovered later his name was actually Hungerford! Never knew why, the family was from Berkshire but not that close to Hungerford.  Certainly could never see how that became Mont.
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Kevinshouse on Sunday 28 December 14 15:48 GMT (UK)
If correct names were used all the time this family history research would be so easy  ;D
I am called Susan and have never introduced myself as anything else (my mother would correct everyone and anyone who had the nerve to call me Sue with the words we call her Susan ,she is not an indian!) but yet people refer to me as Sue. In my family I am Susan, but after 50 odd years I have stopped correcting people, that is why I gave my daughters short names
Kind regards Susan
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: lydiaann on Monday 29 December 14 12:45 GMT (UK)
My mum was called Dorothy.  When she joined Affleck and Brown (Manchester) as a young apprentice in the early 1920s, Dorothy was one of the most common names around and in the residence where the apprentices were housed (and the older, single ladies of the store) was no different.  All the alternatives had been used: Dot, Dottie, Doll, Dolly, Dorrie, etc. etc. - so they named her Toni!  Go figure!

Happy New Year y'all!! :D :D

lydiaann
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: suey on Monday 29 December 14 16:11 GMT (UK)

Recently learned that someone's wife who has always been known as Gladys is actually Lucy  :-\ :-\  I know which I prefer :)
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: catfordcrooner on Monday 29 December 14 16:35 GMT (UK)
Was Barry originally a name in it's own right, or was it a shortening of Barrington or something else?
Bal, Baz, Bazza
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Marmalady on Monday 29 December 14 16:50 GMT (UK)
Was Barry originally a name in it's own right, or was it a shortening of Barrington or something else?
Bal, Baz, Bazza

Certainly a name in its own right now

Possibly from the Welsh town of Barry Island?
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: conahy calling on Monday 29 December 14 17:20 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01efn/

Some info on Barry surname on this link
It also mentions Barry Island
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Jebber on Monday 29 December 14 19:47 GMT (UK)
And another link.

http://baby-names.familyeducation.com/name-meaning/barry
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Jed59 on Saturday 03 January 15 22:57 GMT (UK)
Robert Peel gave his name  to the Police force ..initially "peelers"  but then Bobbies.   Bob /Bobby is the abbreviation for  Robert but recently it seems to have become trendy to use  Rob; as indeed  "Rick " instead of "Dick" for Richard.
"Bobby Shafto's gone to sea....Robert Shafto was an 18th-century British Member of Parliament, who was the likeliest subject of a famous North East English folk song and nursery rhyme "Bobby Shafto's Gone to Sea". Wikipedia
also "Bob's your uncle"  from  when Robert Cecil, lord Salisbury, in 1887 appointed his nephew to  the post of Chief secretary for Ireland. the rejoinder is "and Fanny's your aunt"  ie your career can't fail if you have the right relations
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Billyblue on Sunday 04 January 15 02:51 GMT (UK)
Was Barry originally a name in it's own right, or was it a shortening of Barrington or something else?
Bal, Baz, Bazza
Certainly a name in its own right now
Possibly from the Welsh town of Barry Island?

A family friend who's known to us as Barry / Bazza, is actually Barrington.
And a neighbour's landlord Barry is "just Barry"    :)  :)

Bob /Bobby is the abbreviation for  Robert but recently it seems to have become trendy to use  Rob; 
also "Bob's your uncle"  from  when Robert Cecil, lord Salisbury, in 1887 appointed his nephew to  the post of Chief secretary for Ireland. the rejoinder is "and Fanny's your aunt"  ie your career can't fail if you have the right relations
Recently?  My brother Robert who was born 1930 was always known by the family as Rob (except of course when he was in trouble, when it was Robert!   :P   :P)
And of course my stock answer to "Bob's your uncle" is "no he's not, he's my brother"
[he's now deceased, aged 81, from leukemia.  Didn't know till then that adults get leukemia too, it's not just a childhood cancer   :'(  :'( ]

Dawn M
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Bellejazz on Sunday 04 January 15 07:24 GMT (UK)
My husbands brother Robert gets Bob, he hates "Rob". He was alway Robert to his mum though  ;)

On a side note, I found out recently that "Jessie" is often a nickname for Janet (that one had me going for a bit with Jessie on some sources and Janet on others, and me thinking there was two of them when it was only the one!).
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: Guy Etchells on Sunday 04 January 15 07:55 GMT (UK)
My Aunt Margaret was known as Bunty or Bun by her family.
On looking at family photos she was a little plump as a child when compared to her two sisters, so that is possibly the explanation.
Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: Why is William, Billy?
Post by: edward1977 on Sunday 04 January 15 14:06 GMT (UK)
I am a Edward that goes by Teddy, not at a a fan of Theodore. I can see where this will cause someone some confusion in the future since my father and my grandfather are Edward as well.