RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Thursday 30 June 05 23:14 BST (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
I've often wondered whether, when I've had to pay out hard-earned money on some piece of evidence in the search for my ancestors, whether I've had value for money or not.
If it takes two goes before you get the right BMD certificate, then that's £14 - and you can buy a quite decent book for the cost of those two pieces of paper...
If you go to High Holborn and order a copy of a will there you might get as many as 43 pages (as I did once) if the will is a long one and it costs only £5, the same as you'd pay for a will that contains just a single page - now that's what I call value...
And you can spend a huge amount of money asking for a search at an hourly rate, and end up with absolutely nothing that adds to your knowledge...
So what do fellow Rootschatters feel has been good value, and what has felt rather like "money down the drain"?
Keith
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Hi Keith
I must admit that I think most of the things I apply for in search of the family tree gives me good value as I experience the great highs and lows (four certificates before you find the correct one!!)
My worst "investment" was on a site that offered me a "lifetime" of lookups for a set fee.
After 2 lookups my mails were not replied to so the lookups cost me over £7 each!!
What was presented as a bargain.....wasn't!!
I am now a bit more cautious!
Sue
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Keith,
I would feel I got better value for my money if I could recycle those 'wrong family' certificates - yes, I do post them on the BMD exchange on rootschat, but so far they sit idly waiting - too bad there wasn't a better way to recyle them - perhaps the GRO would take them back???? ;D ;D ;D - for free, of course!!
I quess it bothers me to thinks some one else may be shelling out money for the exact same cert. that I couldn't use!
drakes
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Hi Keith,
a number of years ago I paid for a census lookup in an attempt to find my great grandmother aged six. When the image arrived my great grandfather, aged 8, was living next door ;D
That was real value for money ;D
On the downside I spent a lot of time and money researching George Fisher of Pontefract Yorkshire when it should have been George Fisher of Deeping St James Lincolnshire.
All the information regarding the Pontefract family is posted on RootsChat for free but, as yet, I have no takers. ;D
Regards
Darcy
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The poor value for money is where you have to stump up a fee to join something before you can discover whether they've got anything of value to you. This is happening now with local Family History societies. I also carp about Family History Online where you can shell out to look at an entry but the information is useless because, e.g., it can only give you one person in a census and not the family. Sometimes the best value is not the cheapest. I've spent £30 or so a time on getting a professional to find military records and it's been worth every penny.
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Not directly in reply to the main question but, having read some of the answers it might be worth a rethink of my aversion to professional researchers, but I still think its a shame and spoils the fun.
Best bargain wasn't mine, it was the person who received it from me. I ordered the certificate of what I thought was great grandfather, both first and middle name being right I thought it was a certainty, but when it arrived he was about 20 years too old. When I went to the messageboards to offer it, there on the very top of the board, was a message from a searcher looking for this very man!!! How was that for coincidence. :D
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My Best buy was a NSW Death certificate transcription - $AU15 - gave where born, parents (Scotland) when, where married & to whom (Australia) when arrived in Oz and the name and age of 11 living children & the number of dead children (3).
My worst but was a NT (Aust) death certificate for $ 31 which said "There is no record of the death of this person". I had an Army record, last known address given as Darwin (1938) & Death date on the file(1940). I guess he moved.
I also spend lots of cash at ScotlandsPeople and think it is good value. My pet hate is 1837online - their indexes are rather pointless - unless you already know an exact date.
Trish
Trish
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What a great thread!! Thanks, Keith!
I agree about the aversion to professional researchers, it may become necessary for me but I have had such fun following many trails (some of them dead ends) and meeting some lovely people along the way! I will not use one until I am confident there is something to be found that can't be found from here. I am aware of paying out a lot of money and getting nothing.
Best value of all, by a country mile, is Rootschat! Only costs whatever one's ISP charges to get on the Net. And I couldn't even begin to calculate the value of the help I have had and am still having, and the sheer joy of being a member of such a great community!
Other good value things for this Aussie. The local U3A genealogy group. Only costs the membership fee for U3A, very cheap, and I have had some great leads and a couple of bus trips to Brisbane with them. And the local LDS centre. Good resources, free and very helpful. I now give them a donation every time I go because I can't in conscience keep using their resources for nothing.
And the online pre-1858 will ordering service from the National Archives. I have bought two wills. One was short and not very informative but the other gave lots of terrific information that I wouldn't have got elsewhere (as well as some mysteries I am still trying to solve!) Yes, it is the luck of the draw whether your money gets a short will or a long one.
I agree about the "wrong" certificates - I would feel better if someone needed them!
I agree with Trish that NSW certificates are tremendous value, but not 1837online. I also do not think that the National Archivist is worth the money for what you get.
MarieC
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Marie,
I couldn't agree more about what a wonderful idea Rootschat has become - everything else that one has to pay for is in stark contrast. I don't know how much money we've all helped one another in saving, and since it's inception I've managed to push backwards along many of my family lines; and have got to know all kinds of good people on line.
All the posts here so far have been really interesting, I suppose the value of particular, special discoveries just cannot be measured in monetary terms. I still think the wordy Wills at £5 a time are amazing value - hope they don't see this post and start charging by the page now...!
Keith
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We all agree that 1837online is lousy value - how many times have we spent a fiver and an hour not finding what we were looking for. We can only hope it's soon redundant. However, it's a worrying example of what can happen with poor transcription / indexing. Pages are wrongly indexed but when you look at the image it's perfectly clear. The same is true of Ancestry transcriptions at times, and you feel they must be done by someone who doesn't know the geography and doesn't have English as a first language. So the outsourcing of transcription to Asia is going to lead to more waste of money.
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Hi ST
Its the index concept of 1837 that makes it useless. If I have a man alive in 1851 and dead in 1861, I will get 40 or more hits on 1837. 35 of them will probably NOT have the name I am looking for. If FreeBDM was complete & I did the same search I would get 5 hits.
Being a bit thick it took me a double dose of 1837 before I realised how it works. I found it difficult to imagine that it really did work that way. ??? ??? ???
Trish
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Certainly the best I ever had was when in England in 1998/9 obtaining wills that totally opened up my husband's family for him. And that was before the price went up!! It's so long ago but (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm sure we only paid 35 pence or something similar.
The worst - same period - Nenagh, Ireland. Local history society. Went in gave them the names and ages of parents, names and ages of children. Hoping we might get the maiden name of the wife/mother. Yes they were happy to oblige - payment of twenty pounds up front. Come back in half an hour! Lovely we thought - off and had lunch - came back - they gave me a typewritten sheet with the names of children and their baptism dates. They were given the years for kids so it was a real difficult search. Still didn't come up with a maiden name for mother or marriage.
Found this to be pretty standard in Ireland. The attitude seemed to be if you are Australian or American then you can be ripped off.
Irene, Australia
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Just got to make a comment in defence of 1837online!!
It seems folk are disappointed with it because they treat it as a database i.e key in a name and it throws back what it's got on them.
But it isnt a database - it is a chance to view the actual indexes of ALL registrations of births/marriages/deaths throughout the country, without having to go up to London to do it in person.
If you go in person, you physically trawl through the books. On line, therefore, you do a virtual trawl through.
The reliability of Databases depends on how well the info was enterred, and most are incomplete at present. They are invaluable as a starting point, but I fail to see how anyone can 'do' Family History with any degree of accuracy, without using the BMD indexes at the FRC. And, therefore, I would have thought putting them on line at 1837online, thus making them so much more readily available to folk not near London, could only be a good thing!!
I'll get off my hobby horse now......!!!(Sorry)
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Hi lizdb
I can see your point and have used 1837online with success for my less-common names, but when it comes to JONES, EVANS etc!! ::)
I enjoy a trawl through real records with the best of them - but can't afford the luxury with literally hundreds of hits.
Scotlandspeople is much easier to use in this sense.
My best value? Gloucestershire FHS membership which has given me so much in the way of local knowledge - and their 100th edition magazine compilation at £5 is years worth of reading!
Worst value? Some of the Family History magazines which contain little of value and their free CDRoms which have trial products that fall over after 10 days!!
Arranroots ;)
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Point taken - agreed that 1837online would be prohibitively expensive for random Jones/Smiths etc!!!!!
But then - if you go in person and have no info other than Jones or Smith, then the index books would not be a practical source.
We live in this world of clicking a button and expecting an answer. Family History just isnt like that. It can take years of searching, following up 'possibles' only to find they are a red herring, etc.
The various internet databases that have appeared in recent years are brilliant - dont get me wrong on that . But, because we have success in finding one bit of info from them, we get spoilt and expect the next bit to come in the same way! And before you know where you are it is easier to accept an instant piece of info, even if it doesn't seem completely accurate, (making excuses of age on census being wrong, or age at marriage being wrong, or mistranscription of name), rather than searching for all possibilities.
Whoops - seem to have got on to my other hobby horse!!
I'm just not having a good day - and where else can I let off steam in the same way as good old rootschat!
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Oh lizdb!
Sorry to get you going again - you right, of course!
I hope your day improves - it is the weekend! (uniform to be washed, demanding family around all day, reduced access to Rootschat - roll on Monday!! LOL)
;D
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Hi LizB Tis my hobby horse too - but I will admit 1837 is easier than trawling through the St Cath's films that my local LDS centre has on offer! I found another centre that has the index on microfiche - a much more useable option & my alternative to 1837.
Irene mentioned the cost of wills - I had an email yesterday from a distant relative who said when he went looking for wills some years ago, it was 25p to read them and 75p to get a copy! As he was looking at a large number he read them & did his own transcription of the information he wanted.
In Qld, Australia where I live the local archives have wills over 30 years old. You can read them for free & copying is $1 per page. One of the nicest features is that post 1890 the Will papers contain a copy of the death certificate, so for $1 you get a copy of a death certificate (about $24 through the BDM Registry). The disappointment is that at some stage (I don't know when) wills for small estates did not have to be registered so only the wealthier of my forebears appear in the indexes.
Trish
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Well this one has got us going hasn't it!!!
Trish I too am in Queensland and wouldn't it be lovely if the English death certificates gave as much info as some of our Australian states? I am currently awaiting two UK death certificates which may or may not have ages at death = which will at least give me something. The Australian ones have given parents (most states) etc. Depending on period all sorts of stuff. Worth the money.
So therefore my other gripe is UK Death Certificates!! Hardly worth the money are they?
Irene
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Geniedi has a posting on The Lighter Side that some people may want to take advantage of...............20% discount card for Ancestry.
Sue
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Irene
Interested in what you had to say about Ireland! I enquired of a researcher about some fairly basic research, that I cannot do from here because the resources are not online, and I was quoted something like $320 (= about 128 pounds) which I thought was a real rip-off! I did not go ahead with it. It seems as though this might be a fairly common attitude.
I agree with you about death certificates too. It would be wonderful if English ones were as informative as Australian ones.
Also have to agree about 1837online. If you do not have precise years or uncommon names, you spend a lot of money very quickly. I find it much better to go to the good old LDS and trawl through GRO microfiches! Very timeconsuming and not good for the eyes, but you eventually find what you want!
Marie
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some years ago, it was 25p to read them and 75p to get a copy!
I can remember Wills at 25p! There - now you can put all my moans down to 'age' !!!!!
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...yes , but then 25p was 5 shillings and that was nearly 3 weeks pocket money!!
;D ;D
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Hi, I would like to say that i am sure that for reasearch that a photocopy or emailed scan of BMD certs. would be fine for most folks? Am i wrong? After all what we want is a piece of paper with the info on?!! Does it matter if it is a copy of a copy?
in which case what we need is a cert swap shop?! Where we can list ALL the certs we hold and allow peeps to order a copy of them from us!? That would cut out the middle man! No Payment involved of course! D x
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I was recently horrified to discover how much three sisters (second cousins of mine) had paid about 5 years ago to a firm of "Professional Researchers" to discover a little more about their ancestors. All they got for £250 were two marriage certificates, one birth certificate and a death certificate, which had been searched for and sent away for, all beautifully mounted and presented in a book.
To cap it all, they'd been given two marriages that were both "possibles" for their great-great-grandparents. And did the sisters want to pay more money up front to continue with these lines of research?
Thanks mainly to people on Rootschat I soon discovered that NEITHER of the suggested marriages were the correct one, and I've been able to tell my cousins that they can save any more money-haemorrhaging by being patient just a little while longer, and waiting for me to neatly put together and send them their tree in the post very soon...
Keith
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There was me thinking family history research has never been easier cheaper and more convenient than it is today.
We now have thousands of CD resources, parish registers on fiche wills etc. on the internet at the touch of a button and what does it cost peanuts.
Gone are the days of have to save six months to afford the train fare and incumbent,s fee to search the parish registers, today vast tracts of resources are available in ones own home for a fraction of the cost of even twenty years ago.
Just think, prior to 1976 there was no IGI available in the UK, there were only a handful of Family History Societies and as there were few FHS there were limited numbers of transcripts of parish registers census indexes etc. and what few there were were limited to a print run of 100 to 150 copies worldwide.
As someone once said "You have never had it so good". ;)
Cheers
Guy
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Keith,
I would feel I got better value for my money if I could recycle those 'wrong family' certificates - yes, I do post them on the BMD exchange on rootschat, but so far they sit idly waiting - too bad there wasn't a better way to recyle them - perhaps the GRO would take them back???? ;D ;D ;D - for free, of course!!
I quess it bothers me to thinks some one else may be shelling out money for the exact same cert. that I couldn't use!
drakes
I've often thought that it would be a good idea if the GRO/ local registry office provided a service whereby you told them if you wished to be informed should someone buy the same certificate as you. Thereby putting 2 relatives in contact. I know it doesn't prevent us buying copies of the same certificates but at least we get to meet a cousin out of it!!
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That's a brilliant idea Amy K
Sue
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I agree that using 1837online can be expensive if you are searching for a 'common' name (Jones, Smith even Harris) However whilst searching the 1861 census yesterday I had a fantastic stroke of luck when searching for one of my Harris line.
I used the advanced search and put in Thomas Harris with one of his children who I knew was aged about 10 and bingo up came a couple of matches. I clicked on the one I thought was nearest (Liverpool) and there was the family. Thomas - occupation Tailor that was a tick, wifes name Ellen - a second tick and there was John the third tick. So there he was with the added information that really had me over the moon. He was born in Carnarvon Wales. I have finally found the Welsh connection, albeit with a different branch of the family.
Now all I have to do is find them on my 1871 CD's cos they are not living at the address there were at in 1861. ???
So I would suggest if you are searching for a common surname use the advanced search and just put in the odd bits of info you have. You never know you may get lucky.
Jean
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This is my final gripe on this subject!!!!! Twelve years on from paying a lot of money to a chap in England (he is now deceased I believe- or has moved on (address) or doesn't acknowledge correspondence) I am now discovering that what he gave me was a load of old ****. OK he got it right back three generations but that wasn't hard seeing as I fed him info.
Now I am "paying" again. To right the wrongs!!
But then I guess twelve years ago I was somewhat naive about what people promised (even if they did advertise in Family Tree Mag.).
Now I do as much for people gratus because I subscribe to various sites and I ask for nothing - he asked for heaps!! And stupid me paid it!!!
Irene, Australia
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It's all a case of Caveat Emptor, eh ::)
Just a word on Irish rip-offs - or not!!
I think that our expectations of Ireland are often perhaps unfairly coloured by what we know is available in our home countries and/or England and Scotland. And also by our misunderstanding of the nature of family history in Ireland (so often oral rather than written).
A long time ago I was really peeved (I now realize quite unfairly) by what I got from the official Co Mayo (South Mayo) family history centre at very significant cost - especially as I'd provided virtually all the factual information myself from the very informative certs of, and newspaper extracts in, Victoria, Australia in the mid-1800s.
And yes, I think they'd geared their charges to the US market at the time (we do live in a market-driven world).
Some time later I ordered in all the relevant Mayo films to my local LDS FHC. There was nothing more to be found! And what was there was virtually unreadable. A little later again, for various reasons, I realized that the people at the centre had done everything they possibly could do (probably quite time-consuming as they'd also told me that a particular Henry BURKE was not mine and had provided townland maps) and that they were really heavily involved in the family history of the region, that they wanted to help and to find out as much as they could, and that it was costly to run their operation. And that they didn't understand our expectations (and didn't even begin to understand our suspicions).
If there's nothing to be found, search as they will (and for as much time as they will) they won't be able to find it ....
As for the good news!
Well, Irish individuals re Co Donegal (amateurs and professionals) have been wonderfully helpful at no cost. Yes, I ended up buying a book on Glencolmcille written by one but the return to him would have been minuscule.
And a professional Irish researcher, well-known on the Internet, gave far more than I expected (or was good for his business) re my query; yes, he no doubt hoped I'd employ him though I haven't yet but the preliminary information he provided was fantastic and far beyond what he needed to have done.
And for some years I was helped by a chap in England who has worked wonders for so many people here in Adelaide and elsewhere in Australia - one posted off AUS$s on trust and waited for the outcome. Always brilliant! He charged only for the certificate which he sent but inevitably came up with all sorts of peripheral wonderful information all written out in the most beautiful copperplate.
Like everthing, it's up to the buyer to be discerning ....
JAP
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Good to have the other side put, JAP! You have indeed been fortunate recently - I am quite envious!
But - it's all very well to say, "Let the buyer beware", but when you are here in Australia and you want some research done in England or Ireland, even, it is very difficult to know, in perusing a list of names, who will give you good value and who won't. The people I know here are beavering away on their own account and haven't used professional researchers, so it is difficult to ask for recommendations. I have the name of someone who is a friend of a friend in England, but she wants fifty pounds upfront before she starts, so by the time I can judge whether she is worthwhile, I will have shelled out that money, either for good value or not - I cannot tell. I imagine this is what happened to Irene.
Your point about Ireland being geared for the American market sounds likely. I still think the quote I got sounded very expensive for what it was. And again, they wanted the money upfront so I couldn't pay part of it and evaluate what they were finding!
MarieC
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Despite having said that I had made my last comment on this thread I can't help myself and must say more!!!
I have had wonderful stuff from a researcher who has only charged for his "transportation costs" and "photocopies" but we did come to grief some time back when he said he had engaged someone to recover money I owed him.
My main argument was that if I give him details on someone and he goes and takes numerous photocopies of the same stuff from many angles and charges me the equivalent of three dollars Australian per page - when they are all the same - tell me nothing more than I told him - then I get cranky!!!
Acts of Genealogical Kindness - seems more to me like - let's make some money here!!!! Three dollars Aust. a photocopy!!! It must be very expensive in the UK to take a photocopy.
That's my experience.
Irene
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Interested in what JAP had to say and perhaps the info on the chap who was so good could be shared! I for one would welcome the chance to engage/employ an honest researcher in the UK!
Irene
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All these examples of uneven charges makes me think that, with genealogy such a burgeoning business, there ought to be some sort of regulating body about what researchers can charge, and how they ought to behave - a bit like the Law Society for the legal profession; or at least some kind of person/organisation/fall-back like the Ombudsman. Or perhaps there is some kind of regulation already in place, that I haven't heard about...
Keith
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All these examples of uneven charges makes me think that, with genealogy such a burgeoning business, there ought to be some sort of regulating body about what researchers can charge, and how they ought to behave - a bit like the Law Society for the legal profession; or at least some kind of person/organisation/fall-back like the Ombudsman. Or perhaps there is some kind of regulation already in place, that I haven't heard about...
Keith
Not sure about the Law Society as a good example Keith. The people who charge the most for photo copies usually belong to such a society.
Trish
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There is, it is the age old law of consumerism and the law of supply & demand.
Consumer choice will quickly place any firms that vastly overcharge out of business.
Whilst those that charge realistic rates and provide a good service will prosper.
Cheers
Guy
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Having subscribed to Ancestry, and been unable to find some ancestors in 1901 (knowing they might have already left for Canada), I found a possible on Official 1901 site, apparently not listed in Ancestry.
The image showed the wife - husband away - maybe even the advance party to canada, but several children, including a married daughter and two granchildren, so this was worth it.
I agree with both positive and negative comments on 1837online, also TheGenealogist offer similar service.
There is another new site, which does have some indexing in the records - sure I saw the URL on this site!
Bob
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Trish,
It's just that when my father died a few years ago the solicitor dealing with his probate, etc. wanted to charge my mother truly exhorbitant fees; until, that is, a cousin of mine who just happened to be visiting from Canada - she lectures on aspects of the law all over the world - had firm words with him and threatened him with the Law Society.
The solicitor very quickly more than halved his demands, as he was fearful of the consequences from on high.
Perhaps I should have used other examples than this organisation...
Keith
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Not a problem Keith - I was tongue in cheek ;D ;D ;D but you must have been lucky that the threat worked. Here, it seems to take forever & has to be really way off beam before the society does anything.
Regardless of the law of "supply and demand" I think we will always find some things better value than others and it seems even among ourselves we see different products in a different light.
Trish
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Hi again, Trish,
...and it does seem from the comments on this thread so far that it really is much harder, living in Australia and New Zealand, for example, to pick and choose who or what is going to give value for family research from the other side of the world. I never forget how lucky I am to be able to jump on a train to London, be there in less than an hour and then have my pick of the Family Records Centre, the Probate Office in High Holborn, The National Archives at Kew, the London Metropolitan Archives, the list could of course go on...
Keith
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Hi Keith
We have some good resources in Oz - but the distances are rather larger than in UK. I did a "family trip" recently - good excuse for a holiday - but 1 day at the archives or a local family history centre doesn't allow for much research! (We tripped though about 5 of my "family towns" in 8 days.) The best anyone with european ancestry in Australia can do is get back to 1788 without going outside the country & many arrived much later than that. I also use the LDS centres which are the best resource for events outside of Australia.
But I am somewhat envious of your access to resources. Still saving for the trip.
Trish
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Hi Keith
I just turned green since you reminded us of all the resources you can easily visit...!
I do get to England, now and then, when I can afford to go, as I have family there. Next time, it will definitely entail a few days in London to visit some of those places!
I'm close to exhausting the resources of the LDS and family history societies here. Apart from taking chances on a researcher (tricky, as we have seen), getting to London seems to be the only answer! :D
MarieC
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The best value I've had was a book out of the local library and a train ticket to Kew!
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Reading AmyK's suggestion of the GRO putting people in touch with each other - I don't see the Government doing anything that cost them money and didn't make them a huge profit so I don't think that would work somehow! ;D ;D ;D
What did interest me however was DebPat's suggestion about copy certificates:
Hi, I would like to say that i am sure that for reasearch that a photocopy or emailed scan of BMD certs. would be fine for most folks? Am i wrong? After all what we want is a piece of paper with the info on?!! Does it matter if it is a copy of a copy?
in which case what we need is a cert swap shop?! Where we can list ALL the certs we hold and allow peeps to order a copy of them from us!? That would cut out the middle man! No Payment involved of course! D x
I wonder whether anybody has thought to start a new Board for these "Copy Certificates" as opposed to "Unwanted" ones. Does anybody else think it would be a good idea, I'd be willing to share copies of those which I have since by doing so I'd be likely to be meeting a relative if they asked for it.
Mary
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I think the idea of a board for copy certificates is an excellent one............provided the person/spouse etc.wanting it is in the family tree you have researched.
I would hate giving copies to "professional researchers" to save them money!!!!
Sue
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Getting back to the original question – I've found my Ancestry.com subscription well worth the money. I don't think I'd have got very far without it.
And if anyone's looking for Family Tree software for a Mac, Reunion 8 is excellent (just as well – there's not much else available!)
Jane
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I've always found Ancestry good too.
What annoys me about 1837 online is that if you lose your credits they are not saved until you pay for more...........you lose them completely.I lost 33 credits yesterday as I thought they expired tomorrow.....I could have done some lookups for other people.I know it's my own fault but they will not be saved when I pay again.
With Scotlands people I can use the credits I have "lost" next time I buy some more..............and I can always see what I have researched before and photo copy entries again without charge.They are saved for me.I don't mind "losing" my credits as I know I will get them back.........if you see what I mean.
Sue
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I would like to add my vote for ancestry. I am on the site every day and I could browse for hours ( but my work keeps getting in the way ;D )
It also took me a long time to get used to 1837 online, and I only use it if I am sure of narrow parameters of date (did I spell that right ?)
I also love FreeBMD but my searches often fall into the gaps they still have. (Keep up the good work guys)
I have to add that without my computer, I would never have started on this family history search.
:)Mary
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Reading AmyK's suggestion of the GRO putting people in touch with each other - I don't see the Government doing anything that cost them money and didn't make them a huge profit so I don't think that would work somehow! ;D ;D ;D
What did interest me however was DebPat's suggestion about copy certificates:
Hi, I would like to say that i am sure that for reasearch that a photocopy or emailed scan of BMD certs. would be fine for most folks? Am i wrong? After all what we want is a piece of paper with the info on?!! Does it matter if it is a copy of a copy?
in which case what we need is a cert swap shop?! Where we can list ALL the certs we hold and allow peeps to order a copy of them from us!? That would cut out the middle man! No Payment involved of course! D x
I wonder whether anybody has thought to start a new Board for these "Copy Certificates" as opposed to "Unwanted" ones. Does anybody else think it would be a good idea, I'd be willing to share copies of those which I have since by doing so I'd be likely to be meeting a relative if they asked for it.
Mary
Such a board would be illegal as copied certificates would be in breach of the copyright on them
Cheers
Guy
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It can be a very expensive buisness With Ancestry i pay for 3 months then leave it for 3 months until new bits uploaded to site i 1837 is a waste of money, GenesReunited is good value at £7 Family relatives could be better but expensive search One of these sites could be accessed for free but think they have changed loop hole Last Year i Spent over £200 on family Research
a lot cheaper than palying golf
Jim
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It can be a very expensive buisness With Ancestry i pay for 3 months then leave it for 3 months until new bits uploaded to site i 1837 is a waste of money, GenesReunited is good value at £7 Family relatives could be better but expensive search One of these sites could be accessed for free but think they have changed loop hole Last Year i Spent over £200 on family Research
a lot cheaper than palying golf
Jim
It seems that forum members do not take advantage of the ability to access the Ancestry site from Family History Centres and some libraries, true one loses the convenience of home access but it is free.
Cheers
Guy
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I find Ancestry good value for money, especially for the 12 months subscription. For a little over £1 a week, it provides great entertainment (as well, of course, as supporting more serious endeavours!).
I was surprised when the 1861 census suddenly 'appeared' on Ancestry, without any great fanfare. You'd think they'd trumpet it a little more. My subscription is due in October, but one of the FH magazines has a 20% discount card valid until September, so I'm going to cancel my old subscription and join again (early) as it will represent a saving.
I'm hoping they'll sneak 1851 and 1841 on (as they've promised) sometime before the end of the year.
Paul
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Paul, which magazine has the discount card, might be worth doing the same as you?
and where did you hear about 1851 and 1841? whhooo I can't wait!
Newbie
ps I think Ancestry is good value too.
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hi Newbie,
which magazine has the discount card,
Your Family Tree, the 20% offer is valid until 15 Sept 2005 on either a quarterly or annual subscription.
Hope this helps,
Sharren
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Hi newbie
Sharren's right, but someone else has pointed out that they may not accept the card if you already have a subsctiption. Still, I suppose I could always join under the name of Kezia Mason! :)
The news re 1851 and 1841 was, I think in the July issue of Your Family Tree (ie the one that came out in June!) or the one before that.
cheers
Paul
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Is there a technical reason why 1837online credits expire or is it purely greed on their part?
If the latter, may I suggest a petition may be started here to send to them to get them to change their annoying policy. I'm sure they would take note with 16000 forum members/potential/existing customers watching.
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I don't know about 1837, but I am inclined to think money-making.
I had a v annoying experience recently with Ancestry.
They offered an upgrade to Family Tree Maker in a Windows XP magazine free disk. I liked the look of it and so upgraded - $29. Ouch, but I gritted my teeth.
Imagine my horror when the next screen displayed after my credit card had been accepted was their "shop", advertising Family Tree Maker upgrades at $19!!!
I immediately sent off an e-mail protesting, but have not even had the courtesy of a reply!
Caveat Emptor as JAP would say.
Arranroots ;)
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The practice of time-limiting one's purchase of units is pure greed. The 1901 census was the worst example. Pay £5, spend half of it and watch them gulp down the rest because you can't use it up there and then. They've now extended the time limit to a week - wonderful. I don't know of a pay site that doesn't do it.
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Hi everyone
I have had a couple of problems with Ancestry in the past but basically I think they are worth the money, one of things I have found which is good, to my cost, is that they appear to be only site that adds age to death cert details. (When they actually have the details of the death that is)
I have found deaths registered on 1837online for instance and ordered the certs and found to my annoyance when I was looking for a 82 year old the cert was for a 3 year old. If it had been on Ancestry I would have known this straight away.
If only Ancestry could get all deaths on!!!!!!
Kerryb
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I've been a member of the Society of Genealogists for a couple of years now. When I went down to London quite frequently I considered it good value, as there is a great deal to look at in their Charterhouse Buildings site; however, my visits are quite rare these days. I pay just under £50 a year, and this also entitles you to a certain number of credits each quarter on their British Origins website.
But even on here these credits get gobbled up in 72 hours if you haven't used them all - I hadn't paid enough attention recently, and came back after a pause to discover that I'd missed the deadline by less than an hour...
Keith
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I thought I'd like to add a bit of a positive note re Random acts of Genealogical Kindness.
I have no end of kindness from 2 people in particular, one in Scotland and one in America, who snail mailed me free of charge a heap of photocopies and info on my rellies. I was quite prepared to pay for these as postage alone to NZ is not cheap. but that was not necessary and I can't thank them enough for their help.
Having said that, a Canadian contact just sent me a list of websites that "may be able to help" they didn't, I'd already checked them.
So I guess like a lot of sites it's the luck of the draw with researchers.
I have also just used Genfindit for an Irish birth...wonderful..at last a chip out of the wall and only had to wait a week. Having been "done" before now by a so-called Irish researcher ripping me off for over £100 with a list of places "I could try" I was a bit wary, but in the end the $60A was well spent I think and I will use them again.
Just a few thoughts to add to the brew, ;)
Sylvia in new Zealand
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I've already 'fessed up, on another thread, the thousands I'd spent :-[
And read this thread with interest.
To me, there are 2 ways at looking at a bargain.
Time and Money. And it's a seesaw.
In the past people would spend many many hours at their local LDS or library or travelling to a Record Office.
The current boom in family history is a self feeding monster, and profits are made. On both sides.
The more records become "convenient" the less time intensive it is. So we convert time cost into financial cost.
I would say that no complaint can be made as the true cost of this information has not really changed. Though, for those living distant to the source of the records it has become cheaper.
It has never been free in the true sense of the word.
As for bargains my top one is a day trip to Carlisle Records Office.
~ £30 petrol
~ £ 5 photocopying
(free parking no entry fee - no lunch too exciting)
Got 5 wills copied, plus more noted.
>> All BMD records held by Wigton Parish church on film.
>> Quarter Sessions to see my oldies rioting
>> All census records (many indexed to aid a wider collection of poss. rellies)
>> Newspapers for obits etc
Generally a fabulous haul and a real sense of detective work and joy at discovery. Exciting to touch paper for a change. ;D
I also think the GROScotland is also a bargain. £17.50 for all the BMD (to present day) inquests through the RCE (records of corrected entries), 1871 to 1901 census all indexed and on line. My first trip added +250 names to my tree... IN ONE VISIT!!!
Both these examples are the balance between time and money. Scotlandspeople is more expensive but add on travel costs to Edinburgh then it doesn't look so bad.
And I have a small correction to make - sorry Irene ;D
So therefore my other gripe is UK Death Certificates!! Hardly worth the money are they?
Irene
You mean English and Welsh - not UK.
In Scotland you get all parents named with deceased (or not) and occupation - providing the informant knew any of this. You also get the informant's relationship.
So Scottish certs can actually be a mini family tree in themselves, on one I had 7 family members named; Deceased, his 3 wives, his father, mother and informant his married daughter. So with the census I got his daughter's new family. Cost? £1.20
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You should all pray for Scottish rellies if you want a quick family tree! Well as far as 1855!
Bye for the noo,
Pam
;D
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I completely take all the points about paying for convenience, and how much it would have cost pre-internet, if indeed records were accessible at all. I don't even mind too much when somebody seeks to make a profit out of providing access to records. What I object to is the farming out of records like BMD and census to the highest bidder, which then seeks to maximise its profit by ripping off the customer. Take 1837online. Instead of transcribing records into a database it just scanned the images and indexed them (badly). Leicester University have done the same with directories (admittedly on a smaller scale) and have managed to produce a system where you can actually search the images - for free. I can only hope that plans to put the 1911 census online will learn the lessons of this.
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I agree about the acts of Genealogical kindness.
Some people do look ups for free
Other areas no-one does , and the local fhs sells records at very expensive prices.
However the curator of Armidale museum in NSW Australia was extremely helpful about an ancestor who was once mayor, and University of Philadelphia Medical School were helpful with an ancestor who was a student.
I am especually thankful to my american and Candian cirrespondants
Bob