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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: ojs_uk on Friday 03 October 14 13:51 BST (UK)
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OK, I am doing a favour for my godfather, who would like to find out about his grandfather. I am pretty stuck, so I would be grateful for any suggestions.
I have a birth cert. for Thomas Boylan, born 21st May 1898 in Blackfriars.
Father is James Boylan (a mason), batchelor, mother is Sarah Boylan (née McLachlan / McLaughlan)
I also have found the marriage certificate for them on 6th Jan 1897, both residing in 12 North Street, Glasgow. Sarah was a book folder, her parents were James McLaughlan (deceased) and Margaret McLaughlan. James's parents were Lawrence Boylan, a mason, and Charlotte Boylan (née Brown).
I have found Thomas Boylan, living with his mother in the 1901 census at 30 Taylor Street. But no sign of the father.
I found Sarah (b. 1864) living with her mother in 1891 at 114 Trongate.
What I've not managed to do is find any sign of James Boylan on a census. My godfather says that his father never spoke about his father, or of any relatives on that side of the family, though he believes that he was born in Ireland.
Has anyone got any suggestions on where I could look for more information? Are there immigration records from Ireland to Scotland at this time? Where is James Boylan, before and after the birth of his son?
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Hi,
There is a Laurence Boylan on the 1871 Census at Tradeston Glasgow. He is 35 and not born in Scotland, by the look of this -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBPV-PLG
and a James Boylan in Tradeston too age 10 and not born in Scotland.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBPK-NQX
Maybe worth looking at original Census on Scotlands People.
What age was James when he married? And who were the witnesses (just in case the names offer any clues).
Looby :)
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Just realised - There is a Charlotte Boylan at Tradeston on the 1871 too :D
Age 37 not born outside Scotland.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/VBPV-PLP
Looking quite favourable for your family ;)
Looby
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Hi
There is a baptism for James's brother at Familysearch
Francis Boylan 8.12.1869 High Chruch Glasgow to Larence Boylan and Charlotte Brown.
This is the family in 1871 7 Eglinton Place Glasgow
Lawrence Boylan mason born 1836 Ireland
Charlotte born 1834 Ireland
Thomas 1861 Ireland
Michael 1865 Ireland
Francis 1870 Ireland
They are not on the other censuses so must have gone back to Ireland and I'm assuming James must have been born there.
Michael is baptised at Raithmaines Dublin 20.10.1864 on Familysearch again
You could try the 1901 and 1911 census of Ireland online and perhaps buy the birth cert for Francis at Scots people.
Sorry not to do it for you but I'm on a library computer and it's abput to shut down.
Ciderdrinker
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
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I'm sure there is a James born 1861 on 1871 Census in Tradeston . Maybe he is with another family or maybe he is not Laurence and Charlotte's son - but it's odd that they are there and he's not.
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Another suggestion ojs uk,
Have you tried variations of spelling Boylan - Boylen, Boiling, Bolling etc?
:) Looby
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James Boylan age 10 in 1871 Tradeston is not with anyone else named Boylan. He is with someone called Mary.
Just trying to work out by alpha surname now on SP.
Apologies should have said not with any of the family first names. He's also with an Ann, think that James needs to be eliminated first?
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You guys are so great. I really love this forum!
I should have added the extra information from the marriage certificate. I take it I can't post it up here for copyright reasons, right?
But James was 38 years old in 1897 (so born 1859), which would fit in nicely with the Tradeston James Boylan. The witnesses were Michael Cordon (RCC) and William Woods. No idea of a connection with either of them. There is quite a bit of writing under the witness part that I am struggling to make out.
What my godfather was wondering, was where in Ireland this family could have come from. The only potential link there is the Dublin baptism, but something to search for.
Thanks so much for your help so far!
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James Boylan age 10 born Ireland is at 5 Eglinton Place Govan Glasgow on 1871.
But he is the son of
John Boylan age 45 Bricklayer
Mary Ann Boylan age 31
James as above scholar
John age 6 scholar
All born Ireland.
As near neighbours of Laurence and Charlotte I wonder if they are related ??
Looby :)
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Hmm, it is getting interesting.
I took your advice and got the birth record for Francis from Scotlands People.
It is definitely the same family, that James mentions in his marriage cert.
The father is Lawrence Boylan (a journeyman mason). The mother is Charlotte Boylan (née Brown). It also has the marriage information - 11th November 1858 at "Castleblarney", Ireland. (Edit - actually, it looks more like "Castleblayney", but the join is right on the y)
I'll try to follow-up on this through the Irish records, now I have a concrete place to start. But it still leaves 2 unanswered questions:
- Where was James, before and after the birth of his son? Back to Ireland?
- Who are his biological parents? It is John and Mary Ann, or Lawrence and Charlotte. If the former, why was he living next door in 1871?
I had a look for the birth of John Boylan in 1865, but couldn't find the right one. He could have been born in Ireland, of course.
I'll keep you posted on what else I can find.
Thanks again! :)
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Hi again.
James is recorded as John and Mary Ann's son - not to say that means he definitely was (mistake made or a lie ?? Lots of people were economical with the truth on Censuses :) ) or it could be a different James.
John Jnr is recorded with Ireland as his place of birth.
Finding them on 1881 would be something to move on to,
Is James listed at time of marriage as a bachelor? He is no youngster for first time marriage at 38. And are his parents recorded as deceased on the marriage cert.
Looby :)
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Hi all ,
Just to add this possible reference -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F5LT-379
ev
Added - I now see Ciderdrinker had already found that.
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Mmmm - there is a death in 1901 that could be of interest.
Charlotte Boylan other name Brown at Govan Glasgow aged 56 ??
This would mean Charlotte was born circa 1844/1845. The Charlotte we've found in 1871 was born circa 1834 . Could these be one and the same person?
Looby :)
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And there's a Laurence Boylan death in 1899 at Govan - age 53.
D.o.b approx. 1845/6 - again about 10 years out from you chap - but another interesting co-incidence .
Maybe whoever was registering these deaths had no clue how old the people were ! :-\
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There is a Laurence Boylan aged 47 born Ireland in Dunbartonshire on the 1891 Census.
Just looking at the index.
ev
Added -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KSFR-KC1
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Hi again.
James is recorded as John and Mary Ann's son - not to say that means he definitely was (mistake made or a lie ?? Lots of people were economical with the truth on Censuses :) ) or it could be a different James.
John Jnr is recorded with Ireland as his place of birth.
Finding them on 1881 would be something to move on to,
Is James listed at time of marriage as a bachelor? He is no youngster for first time marriage at 38. And are his parents recorded as deceased on the marriage cert.
Looby :)
Hi Looby,
Yes, James is recorded as a Bachelor (at 38) and Sarah a spinster (at 36). Agreed that this is unusually late. His parents are not listed as deceased, but his father-in-law is.
I grabbed a copy of the Census for 1871 for both Lawrence / Charlotte and John / May Ann / James. It doesn't add a lot of information, which is not listed above - and no birthplaces except for Ireland.
I've had no luck on finding anything on the Castleblayney marriage yet, so far.
Thanks,
Owen
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There is a Tawrence Boylan born 1835 outwith Scotland on the 1881 Census at West and Old Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire. A mistranscription perhaps?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KMKJ-PS5
Also Charlotte Boylan born 1833 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KMKJ-PSR
and a Thomas born 1862, a Michael born 1865 and a Francis born 1871 - all born outwith Scotland apart from Francis who has Lanarkshire as his place of birth.
Would assume these people are altogether but original Census would need to be looked at.
Sadly :'( no James!
Looby
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Hi
I think Charlotte may be found in the Govan Poorhouse in 1901 as a widow. This perhaps shows that you may have to think, as suggested earlier, about variations in transcribing the surname Boylan. One site has her as Charlotte B Borglin and another as Charlotte B Boylin.
The 1881 census has the family living in Old Kirkpatrick, Dunbartonshire. One site has transcribed the surname as Baylan. Another has Boylan but has transcribed Lawrence as Tawrence! 1891 has a Laurence Boylan, a mason still in Old Kirkpatrick but seemingly on his own, age 49. The age given for Lawrence in 1881 is 46. The 1891 Laurence is a widower just to complicate matters further.
William
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Hi,came across this and thought perhaps this may be your James Boylan father of Thomas.
Death:
James Boylan
age 32
died:12 August 1898
buried:St Peter's Dalbeth cemetery, Glasgow
Death:
James Boylan
age 27
died:1898
Hamilton,Lanark
Griffiths Valuation 1848-1864:
Lawrence Boylan
townland: Henry Street, Castleblaney
parish:Muckno
county: Monaghan
Hope this helps,Kim
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Hi,came across this and thought perhaps this may be your James Boylan father of Thomas.
Death:
James Boylan
age 32
died:12 August 1898
buried:St Peter's Dalbeth cemetery, Glasgow
Death:
James Boylan
age 27
died:1898
Hamilton,Lanark
Hi Kim,
Thanks a lot, especially for the interesting Griffiths valuations link. I had already found the 2nd death, and got a copy of the register, but this James Boylan was a railway platelayer (not a mason), who was single. His parents were Thomas and Mary, so I have discounted that one.
I have tried to find the 1st one you mention, but I can't find it on Scotlands People. Where did you come across this one?
I know this is really cheeky, but could someone with access please confirm that Thomas's mother Margaret, sorry Sarah (thanks for the correction), still has the status 'married' rather than 'widowed' in the 1901 census? Census roll is CSSCT1901_283. Address is 30 Taylor Street.
Thanks again all, for your continued help and suggestions!
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Hi
Think you mean Thomas's mother Sarah in 1901 at 30 Taylor Street. They are shown as boarders. She is recorded as married and with occupation of paper bag maker.
William
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Hi
Think you mean Thomas's mother Sarah in 1901 at 30 Taylor Street. They are shown as boarders. She is recorded as married and with occupation of paper bag maker.
William
Thanks William - I did indeed mean Sarah (Margaret was her mother)! Forgive me, its been a long day ;)
Thanks for the info though, which suggests James was still alive at that point.
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Hi again,
What a pity about the 1898 death of a James Boylan, although obviously the age was a good bit out.
What I'm finding a bit odd is that other than the marriage cert you have and Thomas's birth cert we don't actually have any other trace of James. :-\
Looby :)
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Hi, found the 1st James Boylan on Scotlands people in the Catholic records.Is there any possibility that James may have emigrated and told Sarah he would send for her and didn't? Hope this helps,Kim
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Thanks again for the recent thoughts and updates.
I am wondering about two possibilities - either, as Kim suggested, he emigrated and his wife never saw him again, else James was a middle name, and he was also known as something different, possibly death registered with the different name?
I agree it is strange that we only have these 2 records of him.
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Hiya,
Yes it's very possible that James Boylan emigrated and either died or disappeared!
I think you need to find him on a Census because all you have is his marriage cert (when you would assume he would have provided the information) and his name on Thomas's birth cert.
I think it's odd that we have found his "parents" Lawrence and Charlotte and yet we haven't found him with them on the 1871 /1881/1891 Census.
Looby :)
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Oops - Just rechecking information on this thread and noticed I've made a wee error. Sorry :-[
In 1871 James Boylan aged 10 with parents John and Mary-Ann is living at 7 Eglinton Place which is the same address as Laurence, Charlotte and their 3 sons. This address would more than likely have been a tenement split into small flats. The families are definitely not in the same household as I have looked at original for James. The other Boylans although at same address must be on the next page ::)
Having 2 Irish Boylan families in one building, I would strongly suspect the 2 were connected. It also makes me wonder about this boy James who at 10 must have been born circa 1860/61. I wonder what became of him??
Looby
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Hi ojs & fellow rc's,
Sorry to hijack thread :P
Tonight I have been searching one of my branches (not direct line) & have found who I think is my relative Rose Ann Gunn (1915 - 2003) who married Martin Boylan (1910 - 1988) in 1953 in Holytown, Lanark.
Martin Boylan's parents were Martin Boylan & Catherine Dunn
Martin was born & died in Hamilton, Lanark.
Just wondering if this could be same family ???
I can't access Rose Ann's birth online as it's too early & ditto the marriage & death records so not 100% sure she's my relative but thought I would post what I found as the name isn't common & the reference to Hamilton seemed a coincidence.
Annie
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Hi, the 2nd James Boylan I found in the Catholic records on SP but it doesn't say much.
Death:
James Boylan
age:28
lair # 357
section #13
division W
doesn't give cause of death or his relation to the owner of the lair.
I could find no marriage for Laurence Boylan & Charlotte Brown 1842-1882, no birth of son James Boylan to Laurence Boylan & Charlotte 1842-1882. I did find 34 births for Sarah daughter of James McLoughlin but would need mother Margaret's surname to try and narrow it down and same for marriage of a James McLoughlin and Margaret as there are 46 of those. The mother's maiden name may help find a record.
Hope this is useful,Kim
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Thanks Kim.
It should say Margaret's maiden name on the wedding entry, but I can't read it. I've put it as an attachment to this post, if anyone else can make it out...
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Thanks Kim.
It should say Margaret's maiden name on the wedding entry, but I can't read it.
Her maiden surname is also McLaughlan
Annie
ADDED.....Witnesses: William Woods, Michael Conlon & Margaret O’Donovan