RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: mazeppa on Wednesday 01 October 14 22:58 BST (UK)

Title: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: mazeppa on Wednesday 01 October 14 22:58 BST (UK)


Have illegitimate child Bapt August and November 1833, both churches C of E and in same town.

Any ideas please ?

Mazeppa
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: redtonyt on Thursday 02 October 14 08:26 BST (UK)
Not easy to speculate without some more information, such as names, town etc.  ???

Tony :)
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: mazeppa on Thursday 02 October 14 09:37 BST (UK)
Charlotte Thompson Skardon illegitimate daughter of Sarah Susanna Skardon b c1812

Bapt - 5th August 1833  St Leonard's  Deal Kent

Bapt - 15th November 1833 St George's  Deal Kent  ( Sarah Skardon of Middle Deal Rd )

St Leonard's is directly at one end of Middle Deal Rd, St George's  'spitting'  distance from the other end, now I'm wondering if there may have been a query over which parish Sarah lived in at the time. She married at St Leonard's  1837.

In anticipation,
 Mazeppa

           
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: MargP on Thursday 02 October 14 10:02 BST (UK)
Hi

I can see the christening record for the 5 Aug, on Familysearch, but not the one for the 15 Nov, can you give your source for the second one.

Margp
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: mazeppa on Thursday 02 October 14 10:14 BST (UK)
Thanks MargP

Found both on FindMyPast, Nov15th  Bapt - Archive ref  U3/67, don't know what other details to give you, would like to show the bapt records, but, alas, have never succeeded in uploading anything.  :'(

Mazeppa
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: MargP on Thursday 02 October 14 10:20 BST (UK)
Thanks MargP

Found both on FindMyPast, Nov15th  Bapt - Archive ref  U3/67, don't know what other details to give you, would like to show the bapt records, but, alas, have never succeeded in uploading anything.  :'(

Mazeppa
Hi, I have found them, on the one for the 5 Aug, under Sarah's name it has, TA 13 Nov, so to me, there was something amiss with the first one, hence the second one.
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: mazeppa on Thursday 02 October 14 10:28 BST (UK)
Noticed that, no idea what TA meant/means though, perhaps it was a parish issue if the Nov one was at a different church.

I wonder what costs were involved for Bapt in 1833, could have been a big financial burden if two had to be paid for.

Mazeppa
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: MargP on Thursday 02 October 14 10:32 BST (UK)
Noticed that, no idea what TA meant/means though, perhaps it was a parish issue if the Nov one was at a different church.

I wonder what costs were involved for Bapt in 1833, could have been a big financial burden if two had to be paid for.

Mazeppa
Hi, I think that you only paid if it was a private Baptism 
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: ShaunJ on Thursday 02 October 14 10:41 BST (UK)
My guess is that the baptism was originally booked in for 5th August but didn't happen until 15th November. T/A = "Treat As" or "Take As"

There's another one of these on Sept 21st (Edward William Buddley Perkins).

The parish clerk completely missed a couple of baptisms that happened on November 6th and they didn't go in the register until the following January (numbers 1541 and 1542: Harrriet Ann Smith  and Elizabeth Atkins)

Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: mazeppa on Thursday 02 October 14 10:59 BST (UK)
That's not good enough, did they not realise that 180 odd yrs later we'd be researching all this !

The possible mistake makes sense, just leaves me wondering, why a different church in November, unless of course, as happens now in some areas, one vicar covered several churches, and November 15th was St George's turn . . .

Mazeppa
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: AJ100 on Thursday 02 October 14 14:38 BST (UK)
My records show Charlotte Thompson SKARDON baptised in both St Leonard's and St George's to Sarah Susanna SKARDON of Middle Deal (now Middle Deal Road).
St Leonard's had been the only church in Deal up until the late 1700's when St George's was consecrated as a Chapel of Ease, due to the expanding population. It was, in effect, an extension of St Leonard's and all the records were taken as being those of St Leonard's. Thus, the church records are duplicated in the earlier years and did not become separate until St George's became a separate church in its own right some years after this baptism.
The difference in the dates would be down to sloppy bookeeping - the baptism is likely to have been at St Leonard's, that being the earliest entry since if Charlotte was baptised later at St George's it would make no sense to record her as being baptised 2 months before.
Regards

AJ
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: mazeppa on Thursday 02 October 14 21:01 BST (UK)
Thanks AJ, very informative and interesting,  great to add to the knowledge base.
Think I'll look for some old images of Middle Deal, get an idea of how they lived.

Cheers,
Mazeppa           
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: miw on Friday 03 October 14 23:51 BST (UK)
Hi
Don't know what TA could mean but I have seen 2 entries made where the first was a 'private' baptism (probably at home when it was feared that the baby would die) and the second 'received into the church' obviously at the church later when the baby was stronger.
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: Guy Etchells on Saturday 04 October 14 07:56 BST (UK)
Noticed that, no idea what TA meant/means though, perhaps it was a parish issue if the Nov one was at a different church.

I wonder what costs were involved for Bapt in 1833, could have been a big financial burden if two had to be paid for.

Mazeppa

Baptism is a sacrament the C of E and the Catholic church do not charge for sacraments.
To do so the priest would be guilty of simony.

There were times in history when a tax or stamp duty was placed on the registering of the event but not on the event itself.
Cheers
Guy
PS I should note that a few parishes do claim a historic right for a fee for baptism and indeed burial but such claims are of dubious standing.
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: Guy Etchells on Saturday 04 October 14 08:19 BST (UK)
My guess is that the baptism was originally booked in for 5th August but didn't happen until 15th November. T/A = "Treat As" or "Take As"

There's another one of these on Sept 21st (Edward William Buddley Perkins).

The parish clerk completely missed a couple of baptisms that happened on November 6th and they didn't go in the register until the following January (numbers 1541 and 1542: Harrriet Ann Smith  and Elizabeth Atkins)



Are you sure the letters are TA could they be DN - Duo Necessaria?

Cheers
Guy
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: mazeppa on Sunday 05 October 14 09:30 BST (UK)
On closer inspection it could be DA.

I am never able to upload images, wonder if it's because I use iPad ?
Title: Re: Baptised Twice in same year 1833
Post by: Connie Sparrow on Thursday 30 October 14 13:58 GMT (UK)

I wonder what costs were involved for Bapt in 1833, could have been a big financial burden if two had to be paid for.


I believe there were no charges for a baptism itself.  There was once a tax of 3d for each baptism, marriage and burial in the mid/late 1700s for all except paupers but that had stopped by 1833.