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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: MAPS on Saturday 27 September 14 17:09 BST (UK)

Title: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: MAPS on Saturday 27 September 14 17:09 BST (UK)

Hi there,
             I've been absent for so long I've forgotten how to use Rootschat :-[
I'm trying to find a crew list for the ship "City of London". I was given advice from the ANMM [Aust.] and links to try but I keep hitting the proverbial.
This ship was the barque “City of London”  Capt. Fine, that left Bahia March 13/15th, 1852, destination Sydney. The ship spent three months in the port of Adelaide being refitted according to all the shipping reports I found and then finally arrived in Sydney in October. It was sailing then between China, Adelaide etc.
I tried to find some record of it in England with no luck. Can anyone give me some tips as to how to track down the crew list. Or maybe there's someone who visits Kew and could look it up for me.
Anything would be helpful.
PS. I did find a City of London registered at Singapore and one at Glasgowbut no extra info.

MAPS
Title: Re: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: Rena on Saturday 27 September 14 17:28 BST (UK)
Hi there,
I'm pretty sure a few years ago I read that London archives were intending to destroy shipping records and that Canada had said they'd have them.

Try this link:

http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/shipping.php

Title: Re: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: MAPS on Saturday 27 September 14 22:32 BST (UK)
Thanks Rena,
                   You remembered correctly. The MHA, Canada did take them all but they begin at 1857 so that leaves me out I'm afraid. I need either 1852 or 1853 to see if my Great grandfather was working then on the City of London.

Thanks again ,

MAPS
Title: Re: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: Rena on Sunday 28 September 14 01:17 BST (UK)
Did you actually look at this webpage and follow the link?

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/merchant-shipping-crewlists-agreements-1747-1860.htm

1. Why use this guide?

This is a guide to some of the earliest records of individual merchant seamen, including officers.  It covers crew lists and agreements, originally known as muster books, and log books up until 1860.
---------

6.2 How to find crew lists 1845-1856

To locate crew lists for these years you will need to know the name of the ship on which an individual seaman sailed. This is not given in the registers of seamen's service until 1854. A search on our catalogue of all the available crew lists is only practical for small ports.

Crew lists for this period are in BT 98.

Use the advanced search in our catalogue to search BT 98 by year and name of ship's port of registry. Any search results will be divided into alphabetical ranges according to the initial letter of the ship's name.
Title: Re: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: MAPS on Sunday 28 September 14 17:28 BST (UK)
Hello again Rena,

I did actually try to follow that link but gave up. But because you told me about it I set to and tryed again and finally worked it out. But it seems the records have not been digitised. Maybe I'm still not doing it right but anyway this was what I found ;

View at The National Archives for  free
Reference: BT 98/2496 
Description: Port of Registry: Glasgow Ship's Name: C
 Date: 1851 
Held by:  The National Archives, Kew 
Legal status: Public Record 

Reference: BT 98/2598 
Description: Port of Registry: London Ship's Name: CE-CI
 Date: 1851 
Held by: The National Archives, Kew 
Legal status: Public Record 

Reference :BT 98/3023 
Description: Port of Registry: London Ship's Name: CI-CL
 Date: 1852 
Held by: The National Archives, Kew 
Legal status: Public Record 

I'm am hoping that there is somebody out there who will be visiting KEW sometime and could do the look-up for me.
Thanks Rena for spurring me on.
Title: Re: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: Rena on Monday 29 September 14 00:59 BST (UK)
You definitely need a shipping expert!

I thought I might find something in the old newspapers which had daily shipping arrival/departures but got thousands of hits using the barque's name.  Unfortunately, this name is coincidentally the same as the daily City of London's financial news headline  :)

Undaunted, I decided I might use the Captain's name (which was always given after the name of the ship).  Captain Fine might well have been mentioned in the shipping news but I gave up after viewing "fine" weather; "fine" horse racing, "Fine Art", etc.

I read on one website that crew lists are given in several maritime books.   Unfortunately not one book title was given.  There's several hits for Lloyds on this online library, https://archive.org/details/texts

but although I saw mention of the barque "City Of London" in one book that I investigated, I couldn't find a book which had crew lists in the years mentioned.


This website which purports to have the national archive crew list records says it gives voyage details.  If you're looking for surname "Fine" then there's several candidates.

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/merchant-navy-seamen

Good luck
Title: Re: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: MAPS on Wednesday 01 October 14 16:26 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for all your hard work Rena. Some of what you I did as well and came upon the same problems. As for "FindMyPast" it gives the Seamen but has no index for the ships which would be more helpful to me. Fine was the capt. but not my relation.  I don't even know if John Hill was definitely on the City of London so for me I have to see the complete crew list.
I have just found quite a bit about the C of L on the Antram family tree and it gives me an idea of the sailing routes etc. and the port where registered before 1847. [that's if it's the same ship of course !] Should I put a Look-up message on the forum do you think. For someone who visits KEW ?
Thank again for all your help.

MAPS
Title: Re: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: seaweed on Wednesday 01 October 14 17:49 BST (UK)
The vessel you are looking for is CITY OF LONDON a Bark 385 GRT built in Shoreham in 1836 owned by Walker and Co. Captain in 1852, probably Cornelius John Fine born Middlesex 1818.
She was registered in London.
In addition to BT98/3023 you need to look at BT98/3853 (1854 there are no records for 1853). Be aware that many of these records have been lost or destroyed. Searching these documents is not as easy as it sounds and constitutes a little more than a "look up"
The crew agreements at MHA begin in 1863.
Title: Re: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: MAPS on Thursday 02 October 14 11:59 BST (UK)
Thanks seaweed for your excellent info. I will find a researcher now. [Cheaper than crossing the Channel etc.]

Regards MAPS

Kore rawa e rawaka te reo kotahi
Title: Re: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: keen on Saturday 13 June 15 15:28 BST (UK)
Hi Maps,

Did you find what you were looking for?

I think this vessel was sold and operated out of Singapore as Official No, 40684 in the early to mid 1850's.

I'm looking for a crew list for the vessel from between 1854 and 1858.

Let me know if you had any luck please.

Kind Regards

Andrew aka Keen
Title: Re: Merchant navy Crew lists from 1851-1853, long haul routes.
Post by: MAPS on Sunday 14 June 15 09:29 BST (UK)
Hi Andrew,
                No, I've not got anywhere with this. I had someone look at ships and crews at National Archives and they found nothing. There were quite a few ships all with the same name and sailing out of England but no young crew member named John Hill.

Thank you for taking an interest I really appreciate it !

MAPS