RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Printer on Friday 19 September 14 04:16 BST (UK)
-
Hello,
I am hoping someone can help sort out the mystery about Francis Edward Oliver Couzens, known as Frank. He was born in Christchurch, NZ on 17 July 1893 (s/o John Robert Couzens & Hannah nee Paget).
In 1930, in August, Frank arrived in San Francisco, from NZ on "R.M.S. Tofua". He married, sometime before the birth of two children: (*) (1924) and Charles Robert (1926) in Chicago, Illinois. But then the mystery turns, and he is apparently married again, to Florence Drury, but then also arrives in Australia in the 1930's. Then War is declared, and the family are separated, but still living in Sydney, NSW then return to the US. Both brothers enlist in the US late 1940's.
In 1946, Francis arrives in San Francisco from Sydney, NSW, on "Mariposa". Destination Tacoma WA.
What I am wanting to know is any details, and names, of marriages, in Chicago, Illinois, and when did the family go to Australia, and when did they return to the US?
Francis Edward Oliver Couzens died 28 May 1980 Sonoma, California.
Any help and information would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Printer
(*) Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
-
Arrival San Francisco 15.8.1920 on RMS Tofua
Francis Couzens 27 born NZ to Posatello Idaho relative C Couzens 25 Cromwell Park Avenue Auckland
Ciderdrnker
-
Hello ciderdrinker,
Thank you, I put the wrong date of arrival, should have been 1920!
Printer
-
There is a family tree that says the mother of Francis' sons was named Margaret Lewis, who was born in 1903.
That tree mentions that Charles had died, but the older son is listed as private. Do you know if the older son is definitely deceased?
-
Hello shellyesq,
The older son is still living. I am only trying to discover the mystery surrounding Francis E O Couzens and the family early in the twentieth century. No details of living persons are required. Thank you.
Printer
-
Hi
I was looking at this one last night, the following is probably all known to you Printer?, but it does clarify some things for us:
1931 MARRIED: in New Zealand to Florence Amelia DRURY
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/
1939 TRAVEL TO AUSTRALIA, Wellington to Sydney
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1609792
From New Zealand, on ship 'Wanganella', Embarked 13 April 1939
Mr F.E. COUZENS age 44, Signwriter, b NZ
Mrs F.A. COUZENS age 36, D. D., b NZ
Master F COUZENS age 14, b America
Master C.R. COUZENS age 11, b America
1942 SIGN UP WW2:
www.naa.gov.au/
In Australia 14th Dec, Francis Edward COUZENS , b 7 Jul 1893 ChCh NZ, Signwriter, Painter. NOK: Wife: Florence Amelia COUZENS of Ismay Avenue, Homebush NSW. Signs up for 2 years or duration of war, whichever is the greater. Description: 5'2", Brown hair & Eyes, Fair complexion, Tattoo Lt Forearm. Engaged on the Ship 'Penguin', Rating: Constable (GS), from 4 Dec 1942 to 13 Apr 1946. Remarks: 1946 - Approval given for demobilization as convenient when passage arrangements to America are known or --- his normal demobilization date whichever is the earlier vide ….."
1943: NEWS AU
http://trove.nla.gov.au/
May 1943: Eldest son COUZENS, age 18, first ex-cadet of RAAF Training Corps to enlist in US Air Corps as Ground Staff Wireless Operator. Of Ismay Ave, Homebush NSW. Enlisted in ATC July 1942. Enlisted in Air Corps 'last year'; Believed to be in New Guinea.
1944 NEWS AU
http://trove.nla.gov.au/
Sept 1944: Eldest son , first ex-cadet of RAAF Training Corps (son of father NZEF, now member of Homebush Strathfield-Flemington NSW) to enlist in US Air Force by virtue of his US Citizenship.
1946 TRAVEL TO US: Frank, aged 53, married male, Signwriter, arrives in San Francisco with wife Florence A, from Sydney, NSW, on "Mariposa". Going to: brother C COUZENS, in Tacoma. He stated he had last left the US in 1926 and had prior to that, been 7 years in Illinois. Florence was stated never to have been in the US prior to 1946.
So to me, it look like:
1926 about: With or without the (unknown?) mother of the boys - left the US shortly after the second son was born & went to NZ.
1931: Frank married Florence in NZ
1939: The family immigrated to Australia from NZ (that's if this was their first travel to AU)
1942: Frank enlisted in Australia, and his eldest son at least, became an Australian Airforce Cadet
1942: Eldest son, enlisted in US Airforce in Nov 1942.
1943: Frank and Florence are in the NSW Electoral Rolls at Ismay Ave, Homebush
1945: Younger son also enlists in US Air Corps.
1942-1946: Frank is seemingly engaged in service on the "Penguin" - so away from home? The Boys are following their careers in the Air Force. So perhaps not a split family in the way of domestic disharmony, but rather due to the war.
The boys return to the US is very likely to have been via Services transport, and you're unlikely to find a manifest for that via the usual sources available for travel.
Do you know the name of the boys' mother?
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Hello Ambly,
Wow! That has cleared-up a few questions. The boys mother was Margaret Lewis, no idea of date of marriage, or divorce, but would like to know more about her. Do you have the name of the ship in 1939 please? Thank you.
Printer
-
Hi Printer
I added the name of the ship, above - and the source! This should take you to the image of the manifest:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12569-50977-80?cc=1609792
Re: Margaret Lewis. Is the source of this name from the eldest son or if not, has it been proven by other means?
I only ask, because in the US was another family - centered around Detroit Michigan.
The Father & son both named Frank and similar ages to your two. The mother was a Margaret L.
I found them on a Travel manifest first (in the 20's) and thought it was your family, but then found them in 1930 US Census so discarded.
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Hi Ambly,
Sorry, I got carried away with all the details! Great finds when you know where to look. Margaret Lewis shown as mother on birth certificates for both boys. I have copies. The Michigan family not related although the similarities in names etc is confusing. The fact Francis E O Couzens was born in NZ helps. Thank you.
Printer
-
I've just found other info re the Michigan COUZENS too,.
That Margaret L COUZENS, was born in Ontario, Canada abt 1904, married by 1922 to her Frank, and visited her father C H LANG in Canada in 1922.
So that's not your Margaret.
But .... ;D ;D here is your Frank, Margaret and the 2 boys arriving in NZ in 1926 - baby just 3mths old!
They left from Vancouver it seems:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12147-166541-84?cc=1609792
According to this, Margaret was born abt 1902 in America.
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Hi Ambly,
I had just come across that list myself, thanks to your previous posting, and have looked for a possible death between 1926-1931 for Margaret Couzens, but nothing. During the First World War, F E O Couzens was with the N.Z.E.F. When did he go to the US then?
Printer
-
Hi Printer,
Sorry, not sure what you mean ?
During the First World War, F E O Couzens was with the N.Z.E.F. When did he go to the US then?
Not sure if I've understood you correctly - but Frank went first to Australia from NZ in 1939 , has a Service record in Australia dating 1942 to 1946, then after he was demobbed 1946 in Australia he & Florence went to the US, that same year. The 1944 newspaper articles for the elder son, does mention his father was ex-NZ forces and now in service in Australia in Homebush force).
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Hi Printer,
In 1931 in NZ, a marriage:
Donald Andres OLSEN and Margaret Lily May COUZENS
http://wellington.govt.nz/services/community-and-culture/cemeteries/cemeteries-search
Donald died in February 1974 and is recorded as age 64:
Donald Andreas OLSEN on the Wellington Cemetery database.
Margaret died in October 1982 and is recorded as age 72 (born around 1910)
MARGARETTE LILLY MAE OLSEN on the Wellington Cemetery database.
"Lilly Mae" sounds very American - and no record of a birth in NZ under COUZENS or variations....
It is your Margaret - her age is clearly incorrect at death record level, at least:
She and Frank divorced in NZ in January 1931:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01a26/
Cheers
AMBLY
-
There are a couple of trees on a Pay Site with Donald Andreas OLSEN in it, mentions his wife as simply, Margaret . No other details on her at all. There was a son of their union, apparently.
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Hi Ambly,
I am trying to establish when F E O Couzens went to the US, after the First World War, and then when he married Margaret Lewis in Chicago. That's a mystery, he came back to NZ with Margaret and the two boys (1926), then he married Florence Drury in 1931. They went to Australia (1939). What became of Margaret? Details from family members have been conflicting, and time has probably changed the truth! That's what I am trying to clear up. Regards.
-
Hi Ambly,
I posted my reply and then you sent another posting. That's incredible. Thank you. At long last the mystery of Margaret has been sorted. I am so pleased.
Printer
-
Hi Printer,
;D ;D I'm nearly as pleased as you! Love a nice mystery!
Did FEO not go to the US in 1920 on the ship Tofua, as a single man? Or do you now think it's not him?
Her marriage record to Donald will help as it should hopefully name her father? I'm not up with NZ BDM content - would any of the records state her place of birth etc? They may mot have married in Chicago or even in Illinois?
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Hi Ambly,
I need to go for a walk and vote! I am getting my wires crossed. Yes, he did go to the US in 1920. Did you get the reply I sent to your PM?
Printer
-
Hi Printer,
I did, thanks for that - It is so nice to know she'll have the information she been looking for.
Yes, me too! ( Vote) (I live here but all my Genealogy is British, hence my not knowing off hand, what's in a NZ Marriage or Death cert ;D )
Cheers
AMBLY
-
Hi Ambly,
She will indeed. I am pleased with the PapersPast extract. This proved what happened to Margaret, at long last. You have been so helpful and I now have a lot more details to pass on. Thank you. Once again Rootschat never fails to amaze. Regards.
Printer
-
Hello, just wanting to enter the conversation on Donald Andreas Olsen and Marguerite Lily May Olsen (Couzens). I am their Grandson and am currently trying to trace relatives of Marguerite's in the US. Any assistance appreciated.
Rob Olsen
-
What does her marriage certificate to Mr Olsen say about her parents?
-
Hello Rob Olsen,
The parents of Margaret Lily Mae (Lewis) Olsen were Franklin Peter Lewis (1852-1912) and Tennie A. Wright (1872-1920). They married on 15 Oct 1888 in Sumner County, Tennessee. They had two sons, and two daughters that I know about.
I did not know that Ronald Hans Olsen (1930-1982) had married or there were any children. I only knew that he was buried at Whenua Tapu Cemetery, Porirua, Wellington, NZ. Today I found some details of his wife, Clarice E Olsen (1919-1989). However, I do not know her maiden name or place of birth and would appreciate any further information.
After you have made three posts on here, we can send a personal message. I do have details of your gt gt grandparents Lewis.
Regards.
Printer
-
Wow, that's fabulous. So Ronald Olsen had three sons - me (Robin), Tony and Greig. Grieg is deceased (2019) from a heart attack. Clare (Clarice Edna) Olsen, my mother's family name was Pack. They grew up in Plimmerton and there were seven girls and a boy - all deceased. Their off-spring are mainly Wellington region based with some in the Horowhenua, Wairarapa and in the case of Tony Olsen in Perth, Western Australia. Marguerite died while we were living in Queensland, where Ron Olsen passed (suddenly). His ashes were spread at sea off the Queensland coast. Marguerite died soon after Ron (her only son).
I did not get to see her again. Ron was a sailor on the barque Pamir - he went to sea aged 14/15 and did several voyages on the barque to London and San Francisco. Don (Donald Andreas) died in 1974. He was living in Johnsonville at the time. He had previously worked for the Post Office.
Marguerite had a sister Beatrice who had one son named James. They were living in Illinois, I believe. Marguerite worked at the de Havilland factory in Rongotai during WW2. Their house was in Strathmore - Tannadyce Street. As kids we visited there many times.
I could go on. I have many photos and other information regarding Marguerite and Don, including his war service in Italy. I have all his medals and Ron's wrestling medals.
Regards
Rob.
-
Hello Rob,
Wow! That's quite some information. Thank you. I've spent a lot of time today following through, you 'woke me up', as not much more was done in the way of completing details after the initial enquiry.
So pleased that you have clarified the situation with the ashes (Ron Olsen) as I found the Olsen's photo from Whenua Tapu Cemetery, Porirua, Wellington, NZ (FindAGrave). There's also another page for (a) Ronald Hans Olsen, burial - Buderim Crematorium and Memorial Gardens, Buderim, Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia. No details given regarding actual burial or dispersal of ashes. Same dates shown (b 1930 d 7 May 1982).
I think we should wait until your third posting here, and then I will send a PM to you with my email address. Where are you living now?
Regards.
Printer
-
Hi, yes Mum, Clare, stayed in Australia after Ron passed and was living in Buderim before she came back to NZ. We were at Alexandra Headlands when Ron died. Mum came to Brisbane with us and when we came back to NZ she moved to Buderim so it was probably she who did the memorial page. As I said Ron's ashes went out to sea off the coast of Malloolabah (spelling?). They both have plaques at Whenua Tapu. Keen to continue the conversation. We live in Rawene, Northland.
Regards
Rob.
-
Hi Rob,
Thanks, we are in different islands, just a distance of 1339km by car!
I will send an email address to you by PM later. Regards.
Printer.
-
Great, look forward to picking up the thread.
Rob.
-
Hi Rob,
I have sent a PM with details. Check your 'My Messages'.
Printer.