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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Dubchick on Wednesday 17 September 14 17:03 BST (UK)
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Anybody know anything about a John Murphy (a Victualler) of 19 Lower Camden Street. Dublin. His Son also John married a Julia Farrell. I have their marriage record but would love to know more about John Senior (Victualler). Think he died between 1857 and 1864.
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to help with the time frame
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ba968a0094951
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John juniors marriage cert 1858 says parents Definite which i presume means deceased so he probably died between 1850 and 1858
http://www.dublin1850.com/dublin1850/xdubdir63.html#Murphy
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Thanks Daithi,
I seen that trade directory for 1850 and also some Thom's Directories up to 1859 that shows a John Murphy Victualler at 19 Camden st.
So maybe John senior died just before the 1858 marriage, maybe Thom's 1859 directory information was ready to print.
No records indicate that John Jnr was ever a victualler.Have some of his children's birth certificates and all list him as a car/cab owner or a dairyman.
His wife Julia died 1880 following childbirth and John died around 1898 he had a dairy at 61 Synge Street at that time.
The Diary remained in family hands until the 1930s until their son George Murphy died at 61 Synge street.
Think I'll check glasnevin deaths up to 1859. Else I've exhausted this Murphy line.
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Just for information, there is a newspaper article of October 1860 which reports that Mr Murphy's premises at 19 Lower Camden Street were completely destroyed in a fire. They were clearly rebuilt, as there are later references to it being a Spirit Establishment. The article clearly describes him as a victualler.
John Murphy's name against the address "19 Camden Street, lower" also appears in an April 1847 newspaper in a long list of ratepayers seeking a public meeting about the Dublin Improvement Bill, so he was there for quite a while.
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Thanks Gaffy,
Fascinating stuff. Do you know what newspaper?
John Murphy Jnr died in 1898 aged 68 so was born around 1930.
Have three great grandmothers all maiden names Murphy so get stumped sometimes. And one of those Murphy's married a Murphy.
::)
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Thanks Gaffy,
Just found some information on Freemans Journal 11 October 1860 about that fire at 19 Lower Camden Street. Thanks for the tip off regarding the date had been looking at the british newspaper archive for a while and couldn't find it.
DESTRUCTIVE FIRE
Yesterday morning, at a quarter to two o'clock a fire was discovered to have broken out in the shop of Mr. Murphy, victualler, 19 Lower Camden-Street. The flames spread rapidly, and soon caught the upper section of the house, which was soon enbeloped in flames. The police engine was in prompt attendance, and rendered good service under the direction of Mr. Inspector Boyle, who found that the premises in which the fire had originated could not be saved, and he wisely directed the efforts of his men to prevent the extension of the flames to the adjoining houses. several of the insurance and parish fire-engines were also on the spot. The fire wa got unde by four o'clockm, but Mr. Murphy's house was entirely destroyed. The Righ Hon, the Lord Mayor attended by Mr. crofton, of the pipewater department was present and remained until all dnager was over. Mr. Murphy, we can learn, is insured at "the National" for 800l. The causes which led to the fire are not known.
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Dubchik
See also The Irish Times 11/10/60 where a Mr Murphy (provision dealer of No.32 Denzille Street) was stated to be the owner.
Your attention is drawn to the Law report in edition of 5/2/1861 ......Murphy v National Insurance Co.
Lindner1264cod
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Thanks Felizquaxer,
I checked the freemans journal for 05/02/1861 and found a report about the Insurance.
Does anyone know if I can access the Irish Times Archive at the Dublin City Archives for free.
Just looked at their online access prices and they are a bit steep.
Regards
Dubchick
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Hi everybody,
I know I'm very late to this chat by a few years, lol!, but I'm looking for some info. on these people also. Does anybody have a birth certificate for a Mary Anne / Mary Murphy, a daughter of John Murphy jnr.? I have found birth certs for some of John and Julia's other children but I cannot locate this one. Mary is my GG grandmother. Thanks in advance for any replies!
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baptism 20th April, 1864 at 46 Poolbeg St
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633491#page/245/mode/1up
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Hi Gab_meister.
My great grandmother was Anne Teresa Murphy. She had a sister Mary who married John Butler. Mary seemed to have lived in Howth for a while but I can't find any more. There was also a sister Lizzie that married a Norton they has a diary farm in Sillogue. Their brother George never married and died at his home at 61 Synge Street. George's will is on he National Archive website. He left some money to my great grandmother.
Julia's parents Morgan Farrell and Roseanna White were from Eadestown and they had a dairy at 10 Cuffe Street. Don't know about John Murphy but I think he may have come from Harolds Cross or. Rathfarnham but I cannot prove for sure.
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Hi Dubchick,
Thanks so much for your prompt response! I have found a baptismal cert for who I believe is my GG grandmother Mary Anne Murphy. She was named as Marianna Murphy and born in 1859 in 32 Denzille Street to John Murphy and Julia Farrell. I know that she married John Butler and that they had six children and lived in Howth for a while. John Butler was from Belan, Moone, Co. Kildare and they settled there eventually sometime between 1906 (when their youngest child was born) and 1932 when their daughter Eileen married. Mary and John Butler are buried in Moone along with most of their children and descendants.
I knew that Mary had siblings called George and Elizabeth but I had never heard of Anne Teresa Murphy until now! How interesting! I also did not know of Morgan Farrell or Roseanna White before. Thank you so much for your help! Much appreciated!
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Marriage of John BUTLER of HOWTH and Mary Anne MURPHY of 61 SYNGE ST on 23 April 1895
Father Edward BUTLER John MURPHY
Mother Mary FENNELL Julia FARRELL
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=harrington-street_mf_1865-1912_ma_0317
Baptism same address
Josephina MURPHY
Date of Birth 8 March 1880
Address 61 SYNGE ST
Father Joanne MURPHY
Mother Julia FARRELL
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=harrington-street_mf_1865-1890_ba_0361
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Is this the correct marriage for John Murphy & Julia Farrell?
Marriage of Johannes MURPHY of 19 LR CAMDEN and Juila FARRELL of 51 CUFFE ST on 16 May 1858
Father Johannes MURPHY Pelagai FARRELL
Mother Maria Rosannae
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1822-1880_ma_0122
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Yes that's them. Pelagai is Morgan.
St.Pelagius is also know St.Morgan.
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Dubchick
The Irish Times for 25/10/1900 Page 5 Police Intelligence Column contains a reference to a Teresa Murphy.
In addition I have 5 references to Morgan Farrell , shall we say relating to his activities, which can be yours upon request.
Felixquaxer
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Dubchick
The Irish Times for 25/10/1900 Page 5 Police Intelligence Column contains a reference to a Teresa Murphy.
In addition I have 5 references to Morgan Farrell , shall we say relating to his activities, which can be yours upon request.
FelixQuaver
Oh yes please. Found some articles in the freeman's journal before re: weights and measures act, death notices for him and his wife but not 5 references. Would love to see please.
My great grandmother's name was Anne Teresa she was know as Anne. She was married in 1894 so her surname was different by 1900. So the Teresa Murphy in 1900 wouldn't be my great grandmother.
Thanks again
Many thanks.
Felixquaxer
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I have found a baptismal cert for who I believe is my GG grandmother Mary Anne Murphy. She was named as Marianna Murphy and born in 1859 in 32 Denzille Street to John Murphy and Julia Farrell.
No image on either of these records
Marianna MURPHY
Date of Birth 1859
Address 32 Denzille St
Father Johanne MURPHY
Mother Julia FARRELL
Sponsor 1 Patrito IVORY
Sponsor 2 Margareta FARRELL
Is this her brother?
same address
Joseph Michael MURPHY
Date of Birth 1860
Address 32 Denzille St
Father John MURPHY
Mother Julia FARRELL
Sponsor 1 John FARRELL
Sponsor 2 Bridgt FARRELL
baptism 20th April, 1864 at 46 Poolbeg St
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633491#page/245/mode/1up
Could this be her brother same address - no image
John Joseph MURPHY
Date of Birth 1862
Address 46 POOLBEG ST
Father John MURPHY
Mother Julia
Sponsor 1 Denis FARRELL
Sponsor 2 Agnes FITZWILLIAM
My great grandmother was Anne Teresa Murphy. She had a sister Mary who married John Butler. Mary seemed to have lived in Howth for a while but I can't find any more.
Is this Anne Teresa Murphy?
Anna Teresa MURPHY
Date of Birth 8 May 1874
Address 10 LR SUMMER HILL
Father Joannes MURPHY
Mother Julia FARRELL
Sponsor 1 Emilia RYAN
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st_lawrence_mf_1853-1880_ba_0700
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1862 Dublin Street Directory
https://www.libraryireland.com/Dublin-Street-Directory-1862/1117.php
49 Poolbeg Street
Murphy,John, Dairy
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Herewith as requested:
61 Synge Street
28/5/1897 Page 7 (pc) John Murphy Fined Refused to sell a sample of milk
11/2/1899 Page 9 (Advert.) John Murphy (Dairyman) died 26/11/1898
21/7/1899 Page 8 (Advert) For Auction Estate of late John Murphy Held for 99 years from 1/10/1888
10 Cuffe Street
23/2/1872 Page 5 (PI) Morgan Farrell Charged Sold adulterated milk & 26/10/1872 2 (PI)
again
23/1/80 Page 3 (PI) Morgan O'Farrell (Dairyman) Fined False Measures
23/8/1880 Page3 (PI) Morgan Farrell Fined Kept manure on premises more than 2 days.
7/3/1885 Page 3 (PC) Morgan Farrell Fined Unclean cattle sheds
Although Murphy is not an uncommon name, there was an Eliza M. at 50 Cuffe St in 1886 and in Denzille St. there were Mrs M. ,Patrick J. an M. Murphy and a Margaret M. between the years 1870 and 1900 there. I introduce these only it is easier to note them and discard them later rather than try to find them down the road.
I hope that some of this is of help to you.
Felixquaxer
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Hi Felix Quaser,
Thanks very much for that.
Just the sale of John Murphy's property at 61 Synge St in 1899 is baffling as his son George continued to live there until his death in the 1930s.
Do you know if I could find out if it was partially sold.
I did find the one for Morgan Farrell he said the measure was faulty but that his wife gave customers a 'tilly' which is an extra sup of milk!
Morgan lived til an good old age.
I'll will have to try and find out more.
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Maybe it was withdrawn
George seem's to be the only tenant both 1901 / 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003726921/
you may have this Cornelius Murphy and Bridget Farrell 1868
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1868/11476/8218329.pdf
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003726921/
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Strangely that address is not listed on the Electoral Roll 1899
http://databases.dublincity.ie/burgesses/browse_years.php
Edited to add Refering to 61 Synge St
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Hi Dathai,
Gotta love rootschat!
Thanks for that I have most of them. Morgan's son Denis is also on the 1901.census. this showed his place of birth as Wicklow. I went on to find most of the baptismal.certificates except Julia's in Blessington. With their place of residence given as Eadestown.
Morgan and Roseanna's marriage was also in Blessington.
The plot of land for sale in the advert was quite large for Dublin City Centre
Looking at Synge St and Pleasant Place now. There looks to be around 5 new dwellings on the lot. They are not Victorian like most of Synge St. I reckon they were built after the 1980s At least 2 are on Synge St they look like modern versions of the Victorian Villas and 3 at the back in Pleasant's Place.
My dad remembers his father showing him a yard there when he was younger.
George Murphy died at 61 Synge St on the 24/12/1934. The National Archives website states Administration of the Estate of George Murphy late of 61 Synge Street Dublin Dairyman who died granted at Dublin to his sister Annie(my great gramdmother)
Effects £1781 4s 4d.
So I don't know if it was sold after that.
Annie lived in the Greenview Dairy in Greenhills for another 10 years.
Maybe a visit to the land registry is next!
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Dubchick
Thank you.A tilly was an extra splash of milk for the cat when milk was sold loose (and it did taste good) It is of course part of our vernacular coming from the Gaelic "Tuilleadh" (see Bernard Share's Slanguage) .Tilly is also part of the English Language meaning "a tenacious clay. (see the O.E.D.)
Re 61 Synge Street. Thoms 1941 shows it to be Bolger's Garage with Bolgers living next door in No.60 (Similarly for Thoms 1962) I have to guess what you mean in yours of yesterday about partially sold.Yes, in those days it was quite common for the owner of the freehold(i.e. the greatest interest in land that it is possible to hold under the Common Law ...with us as the legal system since 1607)to grant a lease for a predetermined period for such consideration as he saw fit.
Here Synge Street was part of the Synge Estate and ithey or possibly their successors in title granted the lease of 99 years.
Before I write more will you let me know whether you wish to trace this as far as possible as the Land Registry may not be the best place to start
Regards
Felixquaxer
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There seems to have been a disagreement amongst George's three sisters over his estate when he died. See Irish Press 02 Feb 1935 (attached).
Mary was living in Moone, Co. Kildare at that time (her husband John Butler was born in Kildare according to their Census reports from Howth).
Does anyone happened to have found a birth/baptismal record for Lizzie Murphy (later Norton)? I'm researching on behalf of one of her descendants.
copyright image removed
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1899 to Patrick Norton
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1899/10381/5779728.pdf
1911 age 30 ?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Merchant_s_Quay/Redmond_s_Cottages/66325/
1901 ?
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birth 1876 at Rutland Place to John a cab owner and Julia Farrell
30
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03046/2116521.pdf
baptism mothers name transcribed when searching as Nelia Farrell
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1872-1880_ba_0378
possible 1901 staying with a White family
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Ushers_Quay/South_Earl/1301317/
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Interesting that Eliza is staying with a White Family. Her grandmother was Rosanna White who married Morgan Farrell.
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At that date of census she had a daughter Julia Esther born 1900 sadly she died 1920 along with a sister Monica
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Yes Monica registered Lizzie Norton's death.
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Hi Dubchick & gab_meister,
Another third cousin here :) Elizabeth Murphy/Norton was my great-grandmother.
Her daughter Monica was my great-aunt and I knew her growing up.
Have started researching the family history in earnest over the past year or so and just discovered this chat/thread, which has been very helpful to me. So thank you to all contributors :)
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You are very welcome. There are lots of newspaper articles on the Irish Newspaper archive about Morgan Farrell and John Murphy. Also George Murphy who died on Xmas Eve in Synge Street.