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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Waterloo24 on Wednesday 17 September 14 10:25 BST (UK)
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Hello There
After receiving lots of help on this site with researching my maternal Grandfather family and whilst waiting for a bundle of documents to arrive in Australia I am now looking at my maternal Grandmothers family and am hoping again for some help from far cleverer people than myself.
I have learnt to stick to facts but will provide a little family story as well ;D
My great Grandmother was Mary Ann Gordon 1879 - 1964 ( married George Tiller). She defiantly had a sister Lucille (Lucy Ann) ... that I know for certain. They both ended up living in Preston.
Census indicate that there were also brothers called Alfred, John, James and William
I know the family moved around a lot and their father was french. Family story is that they had to keep moving as "people were looking for him". Something to do with the war and the French Army ??
I think I have traced them moving around the UK and suspect her father is William Gordon born in 1841 a British subject in France. I thought his wife was Margaret Goroy but I am confused as a few families seem to claim Margaret in their family trees and some even have her moving to America which my Great Great Grandmother did not do.
I don't really know where to go to find out any more or to start validating William and Margaret. Would love to find out why William left France and who is parents were.
If I need to post somewhere else please just shout at me :)
Many Thanks for reading
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Had a good scout around & there's not much for them is there.
Can't find a marriage or births for any children.
However I did a search for an Alfred born 1870 Dewsbury & came up with this one:
Gourdin Alfred Sep 1870 Dewsbury 9b 610
Definitely a French name & it was common for foreigners to Anglicise surnames.
Might not be him of course but if it is at least you will have mother's surname.
A couple of others:
Sep 1874 Gourdin Harriet Dewsbury 9b 727
Mar 1878 Gourdin Lucy Louisa Kensington 1a 89
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Also this marriage:
Marriages Mar 1868
GOURDIN Marc Prescott 8b 825
On the same page:
Hannan Margaret
McNamara Ann
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That is indeed a find :-)
Firstly that is exactly how my mum used to pronounce it when she was imitating her grandmother.
Dates tie in with my census research.
Maybe ANOTHER birth certificate to order ... I think I am keeping BMD in business on my own of late !!
Many Thanks
Had a good scout around & there's not much for them is there.
Can't find a marriage or births for any children.
However I did a search for an Alfred born 1870 Dewsbury & came up with this one:
Gourdin Alfred Sep 1870 Dewsbury 9b 610
Definitely a French name & it was common for foreigners to Anglicise surnames.
Might not be him of course but if it is at least you will have mother's surname.
A couple of others:
Sep 1874 Gourdin Harriet Dewsbury 9b 727
Mar 1878 Gourdin Lucy Louisa Kensington 1a 89
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& this one:
Marriages Jun 1897
Gourdin Alfred Preston 8e 1210
On the same page:
Heaps Ellen
Turner Alice
1901 has Alfred Gordon born Dewsbury married to an Ellen.
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Marriages Mar 1868
GOURDIN Marc Prescott 8b 825
On the same page:
Hannan Margaret
McNamara Ann
This is the one to get
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Sorry I don't understand this one .. is the name Marc ?
I am certain you will be right but can you explain why this one is the biggie.
I understand the Dewsbury and Preston link on the others ;D
Marriages Mar 1868
GOURDIN Marc Prescott 8b 825
On the same page:
Hannan Margaret
McNamara Ann
This is the one to get
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Prescot is about 10mls. from Warrington where the other children were born.
If Alfred's mother's name in Hannan then this is their marriage.
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Excellent .. so Alfreds birth certificate first then if it ties in this marraige certificate.
Thanks a million ;D
Prescot is about 10mls. from Warrington where the other children were born.
If Alfred's mother's name in Hannan then this is their marriage.
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is it possible that this is a relation
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
Baptism: 30 Jul 1815 Collegiate and Parish, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Hannah Gourdin - Daughter of John Gourdin & Martha
Abode: Manch
Occupation: Fustian Cutter
( fathers forename unclear )
I wonder if John was actually Jean - and he came here after the Napoleonic Wars , which coincidentaly ended the year this Hannah was baptised ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars and a Fustian Cutter was responsible for preparing heavy cloth - Military Uniforms - and that`s why the French Army were "looking for him " this French Connection may go back longer than you think ??.... 200 years ??
added- the French for Martha is Marthe .....it might be worth trying www.familysearch.org for a marriage in France 1800-1815 for Jean Gourdin to Marthe ??
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The surname Gourdin (and variant Gourdain) is mostly found in the north of the country, as well as over the border in Belgium. However, unless we get lucky, it will be hard to search without a more exact location (there is no equivalent of freebmd for France).
French families often swap around first names (people will have baptismal names) so "Marc" at marriage and "William" to family is not unusual, e.g.:
official first names: Jean Pierre Olivier
normally went by: Olivier (or Oliver)
So yours may appear as William Mark/Mark William/Guillaume Marc/Marc Guillaume in various records.
Note: a son appears on Australia WWI records as "William Mark Gourdin" (father William), born Preston.
His birth appears to have been registered in Preston as "William Mark Gordon".
A second note on naturalisation status/"british subject" - this was often not accurately reported on the census. It might not be what he himself reported but that somebody assumed "Gordon" must be a British name when totting up statistics. I don't see any trace that he actually naturalised.
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Family story is that they had to keep moving as "people were looking for him". Something to do with the war and the French Army
I wonder if he was a Legionnaire & deserted ?
If Margaret Hannan appears to be the right mother bear this one in mind:
RG 9; Piece: 2743; Folio: 54; Page: 18
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Thanks you all so much for your thoughts.
Being in Australia I am only just reading them now ;D
Gosh this indeed could turn into a complicated affair. However it could also turn out to be an interesting one.
I always had a bit of a feeling about the Legion Deserter theory but that may just be my romantic imagination running away with me.
The BS info is interesting too. I think I will start with Alfred s Birth certificate and see where it takes me.
Thanks again so much to you all
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Let us know how you get on.
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Will do ... Thanks again for your help :)
Let us know how you get on.
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FINALLY got the birth certificate from the UK and the parents are indeed Mark Gourdin and Margaret Hannan.
I shall now order the previously mentioned marriage certificate in the hope that gives me some insight into birthplaces etc.
Sorry to be a bit dim but I am bot sure what I am looking at here ???
If Margaret Hannan appears to be the right mother bear this one in mind:
RG 9; Piece: 2743; Folio: 54; Page: 18
Thanks x
Family story is that they had to keep moving as "people were looking for him". Something to do with the war and the French Army
I wonder if he was a Legionnaire & deserted ?
If Margaret Hannan appears to be the right mother bear this one in mind:
RG 9; Piece: 2743; Folio: 54; Page: 18
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It's the ref. no. for the 1861 census for Margaret Hannan.
Her father is Martin but you will need to see the marriage cert. to see if it's the right Margaret.
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He could well have been conscripted into the army:
Numbers were filled out by limited conscription by lot, the burden of which spared the middle and upper classes who could afford to purchase exemptions. This unequal system continued until the Franco-Prussian War of 1870.
Unfortunately the marriage certificate will not tell you where hew as from but it will at least tell you his father's name. Have you managed to find this family in the 1891 census? I can't seem to spot them.
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Thanks for clearing that up ... I will order the marriage certificate. It takes about 4 weeks for them to get here which is painful.
I cant find them in 1891, I can find my Great grandmother Mary Anne and Lucy in Preston in 1901. Margaret is with them as a widow.
I am sure there is a military link somewhere but have no idea in what respect.
Thanks again x