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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: iluleah on Friday 12 September 14 14:49 BST (UK)
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A friend said yesterday " I am so glad I had a childhood before technology took over" ME TOO and I am also pleased I learned to research my FH before then too.
Technology is great BUT many newbies fall into the trap of the misleading TV advertising and have never learned to do real research, many assume everything is online and everything is true and real.
How do you feel ???
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My kids (youngest 15) have grown up with technology and they know a lot of online content is bogus, just as my generation (baby boomer) know you can't always believe what you read in newspapers.
So I think their generation will be fine, it's those of us who've done a bit of online and offline research/living/dating/whatever else that have the most difficulties!
:) Barbara
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Ah, the good old days...
Visits to libraries- card catalogues, looking up newspapers, directories, maps, reading reference books
Visits to LDS libraries- viewing microfiche before internet resources, ordering microfilmed church records
Visits to archives- vital records, deeds, wills, yellowed documents
Visits to cemeteries & graveyards, doing grave rubbings
Writing letters (and actually getting replies)
Taking photographs & waiting to get the film developed
Interviewing relatives in person & looking at old family photographs
... no corrupted online trees, people expecting instant answers to their queries & unpleasant responses when you point out errors.
Definately glad I started researching so long ago :)
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Ah, the good old days...
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I wasn't really thinking the good old days, but I take your point I was just so pleased that I had the opportunity without the influence of technology and as you say instant results not only did I have to learn how to research but also what records are available and when.
I started young, and it helped me understand what research meant making my degree research so much easier, teaching me to be more patient, what to do when I came up against the brick walls ( in FH and life) as well I learn to be more patient and people that know me say I am ;D) and to appreciate eventually what is found.
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A friend said yesterday " I am so glad I had a childhood before technology took over" ME TOO and I am also pleased I learned to research my FH before then too.
Technology is great BUT many newbies fall into the trap of the misleading TV advertising and have never learned to do real research, many assume everything is online and everything is true and real.
How do you feel ???
I fully agree, Iluleah. So many "newcomers" to our hobby are misled by the commercial websites. So many times I have heard, "There is no record, I couldn't find it on (insert commercial site here)".
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Ah, the good old days...
Visits to libraries- card catalogues, looking up newspapers, directories, maps, reading reference books
Visits to LDS libraries- viewing microfiche before internet resources, ordering microfilmed church records
Visits to archives- vital records, deeds, wills, yellowed documents
Visits to cemeteries & graveyards, doing grave rubbings
Writing letters (and actually getting replies)
Taking photographs & waiting to get the film developed
Interviewing relatives in person & looking at old family photographs
... no corrupted online trees, people expecting instant answers to their queries & unpleasant responses when you point out errors.
Definately glad I started researching so long ago :)
Can't agree more, Aghadowey. You can't beat the feel of an archive or library, or the sense of anticipation when you finally get that elusive record in front of you. Even using the LDS microfilm system seems to have died a death, at least here in Australia. The casual conversations, and a group understanding, were things I used to look forward to whenever I got the call that my film was in. The last couple of times I have used their service, I was the only one there.
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Oh yes....I remember it well.....borrowing the LDS 1881 census discs from the library to wade through at home on very basic computer.....you met real people then at the libraries who shared a common interest and helped each other out....and the fight with a dated microfiche reader.
Now they come on here and say they are researching their Family History with often only bare facts of who their Ancestors were and want it all doing for them....but don't want to spend any money!!!!
Carol
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I guess I'm in the minority because when I look back now I hated all the time spent ploughing through microfiche that I couldn't read half the time, up and down like a yoyo looking up the next fiche I needed only to find someone else had nipped into my booked seat and had to eject them. My 'need to know' kept me going and yes, those moments when you find what you've been looking for are great but I still get that feeling even now when it's found online.
I moved to Essex when I married but we had monthly weekend visits to my parents. I always had a place booked in Ipswich Record Office for the whole of Saturday and would arrive with my list of things to look up. Oh the frustration of having spent all day on this and coming away with absolutely nothing! LDS 1881 Census discs - bought my own set.
The media advertising now makes it all sound so easy - these newbies soon find out it isn't. However, like Treetotal, I find it so strange that so many expect to find out everything online on the free sites and are not prepared to pay out any money.
Annette
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I am a teacher at a secondary school in South Australia. One subject that students in their last year have to do and pass is a subject called the Research Project. They pick any topic they want, put it in the form of a question, conduct varied research and then put this into a suitable format. The last thing they do is complete an evaluation of the research processes they have used.
One student last year was not working particularly well in the lesson we were having in the library and was complaining that he could not use the internet for his research as he had exceeded his internet allowance for the month. My reply to the student was along the lines of "That's okay Fred. We are in the library. You don't have to use the internet for your research. There are some books over there. I'm sure you will find some relevant information. Why don't you go over there and have a look for some information that is in the books and take some notes?"
His reply: "Books, you expect me to use books!!!!!"
Kaybron
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I was so thrilled to see what the library had in stock when I started doing my family research. It told me quite a bit about my ancestors and helped me go from there.
I cannot get to anything now as I can hardly walk, so therefore I am also very glad of the internet .
Bev
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My earlier post was not meant to condemn all recent advances for research. I think the internet is wonderful (I've found lots of information that I wouldn't have otherwise, kept in touch with friends and relatives I haven't seen in years and found long-lost connections). scanners and digital cameras are fantastic (going to take my camera out today and photograph a gravestone for a man in South Africa whose family used to live in a home near me), etc.
However, there's much to be said for in-person research. Looking at headstone photos online isn't the same as wandering in a graveyard- I've found many relatives buried in the same place when searching for a particular stone. Pulling down Will Books or other records off the shelves searching for a particular name can be tiring and disappointing if nothing found but when that elusive person is located you get so excited.
Over 30 years ago I was in the basement of a town hall searching through land records. The property I was trying to find was out of town (in the middle of nowhere up a mountain) and I was having difficulty getting my bearings since the boundaries were names rather than roads. A woman doing title searches saw I was having trouble and asked what area it was. When she heard the answer she said her husband's grandfather lived up there now, his family had for generations, and she'd ask him. So I gave her the names and returned to my searching the following morning. She said that the grandfather wanted to see me, so I walked for miles to his house and to cut a long story short he was my grandmother's cousin, owned some of the property I'd been looking for and told me what had happened to the rest of it. Yes, I had the original deeds to the property and maybe could have identified the location online but it never would have given me the family stories I heard that visit and later.
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Kaybron - The schools in WA do this as well as I remember my great nephew had this project which resulted in his parents doing all the work and his father going on with the research after that.
Aghadowey - I am sure most people didn't take offence at what you had written, but you know what it is like - once a person gives their opinion, then someone else does and so on till the subject gets somewhat changed from the original topic.
Bev
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I also am glad I started my research before technology took over, but, I am glad I live in an age where technology is available.
I was privileged to be able to access many original records in the past that in these days of technology are not easily available to the researcher here in the UK..
Original civil registers at County Record Offices, enumerator's returns of census (CERs) , bundles of wills, original parish registers.
Some of these are accessible online but the online records also mask details.
Perhaps the most obvious are the statisticians marks and additions on CERs or the problems of bleed through and discolouration on parish registers which were often clearer when viewing the original.
Even the pressure of pen strokes on a register gave clues as to the confidence or lack of confidence of the writer, sometimes the only clue as to whether someone may be literate or not.
Caution had to be used even then as there were many bogus or incorrect trees available to view even some official sources contained errors. Even the Heralds in the 16th and 17th centuries were not above inventing a lineage to please a client, others were happy to accept hearsay without other proof. Old does not mean accurate.
However we must not forget most of those resources used in the past are still available today.
Parish registers on microfiche and microfilm may be purchased, a number are even available in churches for inspection. Archives are full to overflowing with records that have not been microfilmed or digitised which the public can view.
Perhaps the real reason I am glad I started my research before technology took over is nothing to do with technology and more to do with education.
I was lucky to attend a school that taught me how to acquire knowledge for myself and how to check the accuracy of presented facts rather than accepting everything at face value.
When all is said and done the internet is basically a library or archive of information.
It is still up to the individual to question the value of the information held.
We must also be aware why the information was acquired and compiled as the reason could distort the meaning of the record.
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Aghadowey - I am sure most people didn't take offence at what you had written, but you know what it is like - once a person gives their opinion, then someone else does and so on till the subject gets somewhat changed from the original topic.
Bev
I can't see that what I posted was 'off-topic' :-\
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I only started researching when information was already appearing on the internet. That is almost a shame, when I read some of the entries here, as you are successfully conveying the sense that I have missed out a lot.
On a practical note, I would have to travel all over Britain, Central and Eastern Europe to visit all the archives and repositories I would be needing, so I am very glad that the internet is available (even the certificates I've bought were ordered and paid for over the internet :) )
Bob
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I can't see that what I posted was 'off-topic' :-\
It wasn't. I think perhaps Bev meant this in a more general sense. When they get longer, all topics tend to veer off the original path .... in particular when people begin to repy to comments in the middle of a topic, without reading all of the previous replies. One of the "joys" of all forum discussions :(
(also meant as a general comment :) )
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Guy, I think you have summed it up perfectly.
Aghadowey, I took Bev's reply to mean that it is so easy for a thread like this to veer off topic, not that your post was off topic.
So how's those Yankees...... ;D
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The research project done in Australia is done here and is called Extended Studies.My grandson in his pre GCSE year has been working on this .He chooses his subject,researches and presents at the end a thesis .He has a mentor at school to guide him .My grandaughter did it in her final A level year over. 4 months .Again choosing her subject and producing a piece of work of so many words.I think they find out so much that it might be difficult to cut it down to a set number of words.
Technology is fine and I'm glad that my youngsters introduced me to the world of the Internet.I doubt whether I would have kept in touch and exchanged family photoes and certificates if Ud had to send by snail mail.I do worry however about the amount of tine children spend on their iPods.My daughter just back from a family holiday in China said that as soon as their group arrived at a place the youngsters were trying to get a signal.
I find it so useful for on line shopping when I don't feel like traipsing round the shops
Ringrose
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The internet is great and makes access to some records a lot easier.
But it is only a tool, useful to give access to some records.
It is not the be all and end all.
Practically it is the first thing to try, and that allows you to check the records that are on there with greater ease than "in the old days"
But if that draws a blank, then surely the next step is to think about what other records there might be, and other ways to access them ( visiting record offices, LDS films etc), rather then concluding there is no record that can solve your particular dilemma, or worse still, just accepting a record from the internet that vaguely matches without doing any further research (either via internet or otherwise) to back it up.
So often we see people seeing " the internet" not as a tool, but as their Master.
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I am a teacher at a secondary school in South Australia. One subject that students in their last year have to do and pass is a subject called the Research Project. They pick any topic they want, put it in the form of a question, conduct varied research and then put this into a suitable format. The last thing they do is complete an evaluation of the research processes they have used.
One student last year was not working particularly well in the lesson we were having in the library and was complaining that he could not use the internet for his research as he had exceeded his internet allowance for the month. My reply to the student was along the lines of "That's okay Fred. We are in the library. You don't have to use the internet for your research. There are some books over there. I'm sure you will find some relevant information. Why don't you go over there and have a look for some information that is in the books and take some notes?"
His reply: "Books, you expect me to use books!!!!!"
Kaybron
;D ;D ;D Not just in Australia! On asking one student why they were printing off reams of internet information in the library in lesson time ( not something encouraged because of costs/wastage) I was told they were 'excluded' from the library computers for miss use for two weeks and their computer was broke at home, so next part of the lesson after break was started with "switch off the computers and now we use other resources".........the moans!!!!! ;D However the majority of them had never used any other research resources, hadn't a clue how to, so not only a useful learning for them but me too.
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Pinefamily,
That was exactly what I meant to say regarding the message to aghadowey- I will have to read carefully whatever I put down in future, but it made sense to me! I didn't want to upset him, as a matter of fact he has helped me considerably at times.
What I was referring with the 'off topic' was like a childhood game where one person whispers a sentence to the next person, who then turns to the one behind them and so on, till when the last person gets the message it is totally messed up.
No more jokes for me!
Bev
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Not to worry, Bev. SHE is not offended ;D
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Years prior to the accepted usage of a PC for home/office use I purchased a BBC computer together with a selection of games (educational) which my 2 daughters then aged about 7/10years learned keyboard skills. When at junior school they each in turn showed the teaching staff how to use.
Moving forward to adulthood their skills with the keyboard have stood the test in time, both having good jobs within the computer related industry.
Brian
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OOPS Aghadowey!
Done it again
Bev
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I identify what Berlin Bob says, I started my research at a time when the census were beginning to appear online as were parish registers etc. So I am thankful for the internet which has helped me with my research.
However I have just finished a dissertation as part of my Masters in Genealogy and I spent a number of days at our local record office poring over and transcribing a whole host of old records. I absolutely loved it. Not only were they handwritten and signed by real people, there were so many different types of record that are not available online - mortgages, deeds, inventories etc. I even got to see the signature of one of my ancestors who lived in the 16th century. He was my great x 11 grandfather. Wow! The smell of the parchment and the rustle of it. The internet can never replace that!
Kerry
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............... I spent a number of days at our local record office poring over and transcribing a whole host of old records. I absolutely loved it. Not only were they handwritten and signed by real people, there were so many different types of record that are not available online - mortgages, deeds, inventories etc. I even got to see the signature of one of my ancestors who lived in the 16th century. He was my great x 11 grandfather. Wow! The smell of the parchment and the rustle of it. The internet can never replace that!
Kerry
Yes a completely different experience that teaches us so much, not the 'instant' world we have all become so used to having.
I love the internet it has opened other avenues, for one Rootschat would not be here without it.
I would not be posting a letter today to a 90 year old lady who I have know for 15 years and would never have found her ( or her lovely husband sadly now gone) if it wasn't for other people online researching the same line as 'us' and gave me her address, she is not online even though I purchased a second hand computer for her and spent hours teaching her, she just couldn't get the hang of it.
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snip Wow! The smell of the parchment and the rustle of it. The internet can never replace that!
Kerry
Be careful what you wish for. ;)
The internet is nearly there the rustle of the parchment would be easy to replicate but do we really want smelly internet?
Think of the adverts, fish & chips, curries, bacon, yes not bad but damp musty parish registers, or even worse Bishop's Transcripts soaked with rain water and rats urine ; I don't think so.
In a similar way I don't miss exiting a church or indeed an archive with my hands black from the muck and dust of 300 years of grime and soot.
It was not always, Yes sir take a seat and we will fetch the files for you. ;)
Cheers
Guy
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Haha Guy, I have to laugh because that is exactly what my OH says most weeks when watching WDYTYA. "Yes sir take a seat and we will fetch the files for you." He thinks I'm useless at family research because it takes me ages to find the right file. ::) ;)
Nope I don't think I fancy smelly internet, some of those smells don't sound very nice at all.
Kerry
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Hi
My mums dad, my granddad, was born in village called Waleswood near Rotherham Yorkshire in 1866, later moved to Sutton cum Duckmanton in Derbyshire, and died age 91 in 1957 in Clowne Derbyshire when I was seven years old. He never learned to read or write, had been in farming most of his life, and a partime fireman with his sons fighting fires in the Sheffield blitz in WW2 even though he was in his seventies by then. I used to listen for hours to his old tales of his life in the 19th and 20th century, the technology advances through his life time, his grandfathers and his fathers from listening to them when he was a child back in the late 1860's/1870's. My mum b 1908 also used to listen to her Gt granddad tales, past it on to me, she died in 1995 age 87, had being doing ancestry most her life time and I've been doing it over 55 years or 60 years if you count my infant years with granddads tales.
I'd say technology is ever on going ! as my granddad found it from horse en carts days 1800's, Victorian industrial might, Victorian railways lines we still use today, development of telephones, light bulbs, radio, TV, to flying planes and atom bombs dropped on Japan also more !
Granddad saw a lot in his life time and died only 12 years before man walked on the moon in 1969 ;D
:)
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I have loved reading this thread, as a director of a LDS family history centre it is so sad to see that they are nearly always empty, well at least at ours is. The wonderful lady who I work with has taught me everything I know and I love hearing her stories of the hours she put in to research. It is a delight when someone new comes in and has a passion and desire to get started, sadly a lot of church members are not interested.
Gail.
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Possibly slightly "off-topic", but definitely refering to the advance of technology. here in NSW, the Higher School Certificate, English exam is starting today. There has been much complaining from some that the exam has to be written in Shock Horror "longhand", no computers allowed :o :o :o
Some are complaining that the students writing is illegible, not too suprising as they don't do it.
I find that I can write longhand much quicker than I can type
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Possibly slightly "off-topic", but definitely refering to the advance of technology. here in NSW, the Higher School Certificate, English exam is starting today. There has been much complaining from some that the exam has to be written in Shock Horror "longhand", no computers allowed :o :o :o
Some are complaining that the students writing is illegible, not too suprising as they don't do it.
I find that I can write longhand much quicker than I can type
I was sat on a bus last year and some teenages were talking in a mix of hiphop and mobile phone text abbreviated talk in a Yorkshire slang. I think one of them had complained about his tennis elbow with holding his phone to his ear alot or his larger can to his mouth and might need a sicky day off work. ;D
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I have loved reading this thread, as a director of a LDS family history centre it is so sad to see that they are nearly always empty, well at least at ours is. The wonderful lady who I work with has taught me everything I know and I love hearing her stories of the hours she put in to research. It is a delight when someone new comes in and has a passion and desire to get started, sadly a lot of church members are not interested.
Gail.
Hi Gail,
I think I mentioned the same thing earlier in this thread. Largely due to the commercial family history sites, the wonderful LDS family history centres are becoming almost obsolete. My usual one has cut back the hours it is open to view a microfilm, and I was talking to a Mormon who came knocking on our door the other day, and he told me there was not such an emphasis on them doing their family history.
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Shame on him! :)
We have just had our twice yearly General Conference and one of the leaders spoke just about that, doing family history, telling stories to our children. For me family history and the work we do is all about what the Church teaches. A non member friend asked me what we do in the Temples that are all over the world, I explained briefly and her reply was "oh, you put families together"
It is sad to see the FHC being empty, but it makes it all worth it when someone comes in regardless of their beliefs.
Gail.
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I have loved reading this thread, as a director of a LDS family history centre it is so sad to see that they are nearly always empty, well at least at ours is. The wonderful lady who I work with has taught me everything I know and I love hearing her stories of the hours she put in to research. It is a delight when someone new comes in and has a passion and desire to get started, sadly a lot of church members are not interested.
Gail.
Thank you Gail, that is nice to hear, I am loving reading peoples thoughts too.
The person who helped me start researching is my oldest friend, she is a LDS, so maybe the newer members of your temple don't research now however there are plenty who still do and are prepared to help others do the same. I am just so pleased I was taught to research real records and warned about the 'technology' available back then, that it is a clue only ( IGI) which is exactly the same as the 'collections' and transcriptions online now and to use them as a clue to find the real records.