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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Spidermonkey on Thursday 11 September 14 22:23 BST (UK)
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I really liked this episode. I thought that Mrs Berry was very natural and genuinely interested in her family. I also liked that they looked at several generations (not in huge amount of detail, but even so!).
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I must admit I enjoyed this one. I think she was n't expecting what she got though.
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Yes I liked this one too, it told a story.
Its funny how the other week when they ran out of genealogy they resorted to an ice cream making lesson that really grated and yet the bread making session in this episode seemed well placed.
I guess it just goes to show its how you tell the story that matters and this week they got it right. Well done WDYTYA.
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Loved it, best so far.
The difference between the ice cream and bread making sections is that Tamzin isn't known for making ice cream but Mary is known for her baking skills.
Hope rest of series up to this standard.
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I liked this one too. It seemed to get back to more like the old format. Mary seemed genuinely interested in her family and seemed to be interested in the information that the researchers found
Chris
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Loved it, up there with BB :)
Frank.
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Sorry I fell asleep... :-\
Let's face it, I don't think Mr Houghton had the workhouse inmates best interests at heart when supplying their bread. Looking at those accounts any way you cut the cake he was up to no good. Sorry Mary.
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I thought it was typical of the sort of person who wants to act as an apologist for their ancestors. It was clear that one side of the family was profiteering by selling adulterated bread to the workhouse (she excused this by saying the man was "an entrepreneur" which presumably excuses him being on the Parish Council which awards the bread contract and thereby allows him get the contract). On the other side of the family was a woman who had four illegitimate children (Oh no, surely there must be a husband...), and when the Berry family ended up in the workhouse (possibly being choked by the adulterated bread from the other family line) she declared that they were 'nice people' who clearly didn't deserve to be there. Made me cross, the whole lot of it. I felt sorry for the parts of the family who fell on hard times, but it made me cross the way MB kept trying to claim that it was really not their fault... that the workhouse people who couldn't eat the bread must have been deliberate trouble-makers... etc etc etc. [Rant off] ;D
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I enjoyed this episode; but I agree wholeheartedly with Greensleeves. Although MB did say she was making excuses for her ancestors! Anna
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Highlighted the fine line between being comfortably well off and the workhouse.
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This episode made me roll my eyes! I was annoyed how she made these sweeping statements like how the baker must have been a good man and how she asked if the woman with four illegitimate kids was a prostitue! (Oh no the taint of illegitimacy - note my sarcasm lol).
Then I fell asleep x
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Has anyone been able to find out what happened to Christopher Berry? We had Mary's death certificate but Christopher was forgotten after the bankruptcy. Did he manage to establish another business. The assumption was Mary his daughter went and lived with him but no proof was offered.
I enjoyed the episode but lots of gaps and assumptions about what happened.
Panda
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Also I think that the way they now (the programme makers) are specifically looking for a similarity between an ancester and the celeb is over shadowing the rest of the "digging" for want of a better word.
In my opinion there's too much time spent on "oh great grandad such and such liked dogs! So do I...I've inherited so much from him".
We can all find things in common if we look for it, I don't think it means it's inherited or in the genes. (If it is I'm gunna end up a drunk or down a pit lol)
Rant over x
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Has anyone been able to find out what happened to Christopher Berry?
There's a death notice for a Christopher Berry aged 55 in Cambridge Chronicle and Journal 24 June 1831, he died on 15th June aged 55. His death was in St Stephens, Norwich and he is still described as a printer. I got a bit confused whether he was Christopher the elder or younger. Only saw part of it, OH came back from work in the middle of it. But have whole episode on video, so will watch later.
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We can all find things in common if we look for it, I don't think it means it's inherited or in the genes. (If it is I'm gunna end up a drunk or down a pit lol)
Rant over x
Your post made me laugh out loud - thanks!
Regards
GS
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Your post made me laugh out loud - thanks!
Regards
GS
[/quote]
Lol no problems x
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In my opinion there's too much time spent on "oh great grandad such and such liked dogs! So do I...I've inherited so much from him".
Agreed.
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Hi All
Well, I enjoyed this episode. My 4x grandfather was awarded 5 loaves a week as outdoor relief when he fell on hard times as a Framework knitter and his wife had just died so he had 5 children to look after. That was around 1840. I found it really enlightening to realise that people were even making money out of the destitute by doctoring the bread and that the contract was given on the basis of who you were and not best value for money.
As an aside, my daughter trained to be a baker, wonder if that was because the family only had bread to exist on at that time.
One of the children who was granted this bread, later became a bit of a philanthropist and I found a report of him having an enormous christmas pudding made which was then distributed to the poor of the area. There were queues outside his door.
Sheila
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i enjoyed this episode, too!
And, of course, Mary was defensive about her ancestors! Aren't we all?!
Just adding my usual 2 comments:
1. They reckon that for each 1 hour episode, some 9 or 10 hours of filming are left on the cutting-room floor!
2. The production team are NOT genealogists! They are looking for entertainment value!
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Liked the fact that - at least in part - we returned to the old format.
Yet again, could have done without the baking interlude. Do the BBC really have to pander to the lowest common denominator every time? I don't watch Bake Off or any other cookery programmes (I find them boring in the extreme), so why inflict it on me in the guise of family history? I vaguely remember, a few years back, a series of programmes (don't know if it was BBC or ITV) which had celebs trying out their ancestors' occupations. The only one I can remember is Deidre from Corrie trying her hand at farming. It obviously didn't catch on as there was never a second series. I hope the BBC take note of that - it ain't necessary. We all knew a baker baked bread for goodness sake!
Also, nice lady but a bit dim????? ???
Jill
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i enjoyed this episode, too!
And, of course, Mary was defensive about her ancestors! Aren't we all?!
No. I accept that what my ancestors did or didn't do has nothing to do with me. Some were probably very nice people and others were probably awful, just as you get in families today. There is no point getting upset or defensive, it is history and nothing you do or say can change it, so why pretend it didn't happen?
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FWIW I agree with you Jan, but then we've been doing FH for a long time!
In my experience, people new to Family History tend to only want to see the good points about their ancestors, and will quite happily ignore the bad?
How many times have you found people reluctant to discuss FH, because they feel they have something to hide? ::)
My in-laws are a case in point!! :o
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Think this episode is my favourite (so far) of the series.
Mary's 'journey' into the past was interesting and varied. Yes, she seemed to want to think the best of her baker ancestor, but she did accept that he'd probably pulled strings on the Council to get the bread contract.
I was intrigued by the other Mary Berry's story and wonder what didn't make the show. Would have like to have known what happened to her father Christopher. But hey ho...they have to fit the story into an hour. I agree with others they could have cut out the baking the bread section, that just pads out the show.
But it was nice to enjoy an episode that was more like earlier series.
Looby :)
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I enjoyed it too, esp as I have a weaver-turned-baker ancestor at the same time. Interesting to know they had difficult working conditions and shortish lives - mine made it to 73 though.
I thought Mary Berry was quite fair in her assessments - her ancestor probably did win the workhouse contract through his contacts, but that doesn't mean he was out to provide bad bread. Getting hold of unadulterated flour was probably not easy in those days, and bread soon went stale without preservatives. A poor batch could have been caused anywhere along the line. Another of my ancestors face a prison sentence for supplying hams unfit for human consumption - that's much worse!
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Best one so far .Good to see that she went back generations and on both sides.We did find out why her family were in the workhouse whereas with Sheridan no interest was shown.
I like to go back as far as time and interest will allow .
Mary is a natural in front of the camera .....a delight to watch.
Ringrose
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I think we have to accept that these programmes are now made more for the general public to enjoy than just for family historians. They are shown at peak time to attract a wide audience. When we begin to research our family history we see our ancestors through rose coloured and it's only through time and experience that often the story is not quite how we would like to believe. I enjoyed Mary Berrys story.
Chris
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I thought this was excellent too. At first I thought it was simply going to follow what has been a strong theme in this series, finding an ancestor with something in common with the celebrity. Fortunately we moved on from the baker to another strand in Mary's family.
I thought she did feel a bit dubious about the baker, especially when it was revealed what an extra- ordinarily large amount of money he made from supplying bread to the workhouse etc. I suppose she gave him the benefit of the doubt, as we all might. I wanted to know more about how he became a builder as well, it seems a strange combination but he had to put all that money to work somehow! Perhaps he was what we would call a developer now.
As for the four illegitimate children, that does suggest to me that the mother had an ongoing relationship of some kind.
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Despite the bits I wasn't so keen on, I enjoyed the episode and watched all of it - not something I could honestly say about some of the other episodes.
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I enjoyed this episode, one of the best in the series so far.
As I understand it the programmes are, and always have been made for entertainment. I don't think the BBC has ever claimed they were produced for the "serious historian".
However, if it has encouraged some to take up the rewarding pastime of family history research, then surely that's a good thing.
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I wonder how many have taken up Family History because of WDYTYA, only to give up when they find out how much time and effort you have to put in not to mention cost.
I would have liked to have known how Mary's direct ancestor left the workhouse and went on to have his own family eventually leading to Mary and her brothers.
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Wasn't her direct ancestor another Mary Berry who was Christopher's oldest child? It was assumed she wasn't one of the six who went into the workhouse with mum because of her age.
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Sorry, senior moment ::)
Had forgotten the other Mary Berry was her direct ancestor.n
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Interesting points made about how we view our ancestors. It's human nature (mostly) to think the best of them. But I also think lots of us look at them not so much through rose-tinted glasses, but rather from a modern eye - we try to look for comparisons in times that are/were so incredibly different.
I really enjoyed this episode, but a work colleague said she found it very annoying as she felt Mary Berry came over as rather a snob.
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I liked the Houghton Baker making bread for one Workhouse,
Her other ancestors were immates of another Workhouse
Such contrasts made this episode interesting
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I did find it interesting -- ish
:)
xin
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Mrs Tenacious I totally agree with your work colleagues opinion. ;)
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To me she didn't seem like a snob but like someone who was with a very particular set of values. She is 79 after all and from what seems like a pretty traditional middle class background and she is bound to look at things with the view of the values she grew up with.
I think it was very telling the way she reacted to the elder Mary Berry having children 'out of wedlock' as she put it. We take that very lightly now but when she was a girl most women in that situation would have been social outcasts, so she probably views it in that light.
I don't think she was being a snob about it and I didn't think that she looked down on the elder Mary Berry, I think it just resonated with her in that way.
I appreciate not all 79 year olds will feel that way, but I think a lot would.
I did think she was an apologist for the baker though! ;D
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One of the better episodes I thought. It was interesting and didn't dwell too long on just one person. I thought Mary was lovely and nothing snobbish about her at all. She comes from a middle class background and speaks well; don't judge her on that.
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Mixed thoughts on this one, although I did think it more thorough than previous programmes. It has prompted me to obtain the death certificate of my great grandfather - a baker - who died age 45. I had not appreciated that bakers gernerally died at a young age, so am interested to see what my ggf died of!
Rather felt for Mary in her feelings for the earlier Mary. "Our" Mary has experienced the loss of a child, and her feelings were quite genuine in my opinion.
FS
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Rather felt for Mary in her feelings for the earlier Mary. "Our" Mary has experienced the loss of a child, and her feelings were quite genuine in my opinion.
FS
I watched a programme about Mary Berry, and she spoke of the loss of her son when he was 19, it was heartbreaking viewing.
Frank.
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I got the impression that MB was quite disconcerted to find that the Canon (?), who she mentioned as an ancestor near the start of the thing didn't surface from the solid Victorian family that she had anticipated! That was a part of why she came over a bit snobbish, I suppose. Mind you, I knew nothing whatever about her until the start of the programme - she came over to me as rather a WI of the old school type.
Her interpretation of the Baker as an "entrepreneur" or whatever rather than a bit of a spiv, was interesting, and I suppose understandable, we all want to think the best of our families, I suppose, but she did sound a bit naïve about the reason for those children having no named father!
But it was a lot nearer to the original format than some of this series, and far more interesting in that she did seem to be finding out things that she hadn't known prior to the start of the research, - and of course, that it did go back some generations.
I do find the "acting out of grandpa's job" bits rather a waste, but - well, I suppose they have to put in more mass-appeal! Certainly better than most in this series.
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Mixed thoughts on this one, although I did think it more thorough than previous programmes. It has prompted me to obtain the death certificate of my great grandfather - a baker - who died age 45. I had not appreciated that bakers gernerally died at a young age, so am interested to see what my ggf died of!
Rather felt for Mary in her feelings for the earlier Mary. "Our" Mary has experienced the loss of a child, and her feelings were quite genuine in my opinion.
FS
My g.grandfather was a baker, originally from Lincolnshire he moved to Manchester somewhere between 1861 and 1871, he died in 1910 aged 67 from Bronchitis and Heart Failure, neither of which I would have thought would have been related to being a baker - although perhaps the flour could have caused bronchitis. None of his children became bakers, although one of his granddaughters (my mother's sister) became a confectioner/baker. She died aged 91.
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Just got around to watching it on 'catch up'. I enjoyed the social history content but couldn't understand why they didn't check the 1841 census for Mary with her illegitimate children.
In the 1851 census they didn't show that Mary's sister Sarah was living with her which gives a false impression of a single mother struggling with her 2 children.
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In the 1851 census they didn't show that Mary's sister Sarah was living with her which gives a false impression of a single mother struggling with her 2 children.
That wouldn't make such an interesting story though. :D
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Often we - people who are serious about family history - see things on the census that are never pointed out, or information on death certificates etc. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who noticed instantly that there wasn't a father's name on the birth certificate Mary was shown, yet Mary apparently didn't notice that until it was pointed out to her.
Lizzie