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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Kirsty Skill on Tuesday 09 September 14 12:11 BST (UK)
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I Have found 2 separate things for Richard William Sykes..
Mundia family tree saying he was born in 1824 died in 1894
then what I presume is a census form. but says he was born in 1831.
both have the correct family members...
Just wondering what one you guys think is the real birthdate???
any help is much appreciated..
Hopefully someone here is also searching this same family line :)
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Hi
I think we need a little more information to enable us to perhaps answer your question correctly.
Where was Richard William Sykes born ?
and who did he marry ?
Parents names if you know them?
that way we can track backwards and try to help answer your query.
Kind Regards Judi
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Just wondering what one you guys think is the real birthdate?
I wouldnt just "think" either, Id try to do some proper research of my own!
You talk of correct family members, so presumably you know aboiut his family. Can you give us the details (what you KNOW, not what someone else has put on a tree) of his family, plus tell us what censuses you have found him on.
Then perhaps we can pinpoint him on the censuses, and work back to find a christening for him - that era is before civil registration so we probably wont get an exact birth date.
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Hi there. the information I have for Richard is :
Born 1824 Alnmouth, Northumberland, England
Died 1894 beeford Yorkshire. England
Spouse: Christaina Lokie (unsure of spelling of last name as this was on mundia site.)
B:1824 D:1915 Beeford Yorkshire
Richard and Christaina married 1845
Children :
Henry Sykes 1846-
Mary Ann Sykes 1848-
Elizabeth Sykes 1850-1915
Thomas Sykes 1852-
Robert Lokie Sykes 1855-1933
Christiana Sykes 1857-
Jane Sykes 1859-
Margaret Ellen Sykes 1861-1915
Matilda Sykes 1866-
The above information is Of MUNDIA...
Second lot of information is
1 Nornabell St, Southcoates, Yorkshire
Richard William Sykes 50 Boarder Tailor (Jour) b Alnwick Northumberland
Thomas Mayes Head M 35 Bratoft, Lincolnshire, England
Mary A Mayes Wife F 33 Buford, Yorkshire, England
John W Mayes Son M 10 London New Cleveland, London, Middlesex, England
Margret E Mayes Daughter F 2 Buford, Yorkshire, England
Richard W Sykes Boarder M 50 Alnwick, Northumberland, England
John Boden Lodger M 40 Coalbrook Dale, Shropshire, England
off Family search...
Moderator comment: edited.
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Have no information on who his parents are. that's where im stuck.
hes my grt grt grt grt grandfather..
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census is 1881
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Lets get something definite to work from -
Here is 1871 census
South side of road, Beeford, Yorkshire
Richard William Sykes 47 tailor bn Northumberland Almouth
Christiana 47
Robert 16
Jane 12
Ellen 10
Matilda 4. Wife and children all bn Beeford
(A tip - your post looks like it has been copied and pasted from another site. This is not permitted, you have to type out the info yourself as I have done for 1871. It is also a lot easier to follow!)
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Oh okay I didn't know that :) thanks for the tip. and yes that seems to be the same Richard.
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1861 census
Richard W Sykes 38 born 1823 ...... Lacebury, Northumberland, England Occupation Tailor
Christiana Sykes 37 Beeford, Yorkshire, England
Henry Sykes 15 Beeford, Yorkshire, England
Mary Ann Sykes 12 Beeford, Yorkshire, England
Elizabeth Sykes 10 Beeford, Yorkshire, England
Thomas Sykes 8 Beeford, Yorkshire, England
Robert Sykes 6 Beeford, Yorkshire, England
Christiana Sykes 4 Beeford, Yorkshire, England
Jane Sykes 2 Beeford, Yorkshire, England
George Ayers 22 servant Newbald, Yorkshire, England
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Free Reg has William Richard SYKES bap 11 Dec 1823 at St Mary the Virgin Lesbury, Northumberland, abode Alnmouth. Father Richard, Mother Elizabeth, father occ Mariner
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1851
Richard William Sykes 30...born 1821 Alsmoor, Northumberland, England...Tailor.. Parish Relief
Christianah Sykes 28 born Beeford, Yorkshire, England
Henery Sykes 5 born Beeford, Yorkshire, England
Mary Ann Sykes 3 born Beeford, Yorkshire, England
Elizabeth Sykes 8 Mo born Beeford, Yorkshire, England
George Lalie 30 born Burlington, Yorkshire, England ...Lodger
Petchell Suggett 34 born Garton Ness Nolder, Yorkshire, England...Lodger
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Working back one step at a time, here they are in 1861
Main Street, Beeford
Richard W Sykes 38 tailor bn Lacebury Northumberland
Christiana 37
Henry 15
Mary Ann 12
Elizabeth 10
Thomas 8
Robert 6
Christiana 4
Jane 2
Wife and children bn Beeford
And then back to 1851
Beeford
Richard William Sykes 30 tailor parish relief bn Northumberlamd Alsmoor
Christiana 28
Henry 5
Mary Ann 3
Elizabeth 8 months
Snap Judi2632 - Im too slow!!
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Free Reg has William Richard SYKES bap 11 Dec 1823 at St Mary the Virgin Lesbury, Northumberland, abode Alnmouth. Father Richard, Mother Elizabeth, father occ Mariner
Good find, certainly looks like him from the birthplaces given in the censuses.
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Free Reg has William Richard SYKES bap 11 Dec 1823 at St Mary the Virgin Lesbury, Northumberland, abode Alnmouth. Father Richard, Mother Elizabeth, father occ Mariner
FamilySearch has the same baptism.
STG
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Awww this is awesome. thanks guys. Is there anyway I can find out any other information about his parents ?
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Looks to have had a sibling
Hannah Sykes baptism 23 Jul 1826, St Mary the Virgin, Lesbury, Northumberland parents
Richard ( Occupation Mariner) and Elizabeth
abode Alnmouth
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To find out more about them . . .
You can look for them on censuses, look for chr of other children, look for their marriage . . . . .
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Just a thought at the moment, no evidence yet to back it up pending more research, but I wonder if the whole family moved to Yorkshire, as there is this possible 1841
1841
Flamborough Yorkshire
Elizabeth Sykes 50
Margaret 20
Hannah 15
Elizabeth 12
Mary 9
None bn in county
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Cool thank yous very much. im just a beginner at this family history stuff. so the help is much appreciated.
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could this be his mother elizabeth with her daughter Hannah in 1851
Elizabeth Sykes 64 born 1787 widow Grimsby Lincolnshire coast guards Officers widow transcribed as Gumsley, Lincolnshire, England
Hannah Sykes 24 unmarried Alexanish, Northumberland, England..looks like alnmouth to me on original
Mary Ann Sykes 4 Granddaughter Scarborough Yorkshire, England
living at Scarborough
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1871 for Mother Elizabeth and daughter Hannah Sykes .....
Hannah Abbott 40( nee Sykes ) Widow ....Admouth, Northumberland, England ( Alnmouth)
Mary Ann Sykes 24 daughter Scarborough, Yorkshire, England
Elizabeth Walles 19 Daughter
Samuel Walles 16 son
Henry Walles 14 son
George Walles 9 son
Amelia Abbott 2 daughter
Elizabeth Sykes 93...mother Grimsley, Lincolnshire, England
living in Scarborough
the surname of the Walles children should read Waller
Hannah sykes marred George Waller in Scarborough in 1859 ( Scarbro 9d 488) ref number
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Hannah Sykes ( formally Waller) then married Benjamin Abbott in 1865 ....Scarborough 9d 491
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1861 census for Hannah Sykes and family........
George Wealer ( Waller)32 Melaway, Scotland
Hannah Wealer ( Waller) nee Sykes 29 Scarborough Yorkshire, England...should be Alnmouth northumberland
Mary Ann Sykes 14 Scarborough Yorkshire, England ....Illegitimate daughter of Hannah Sykes
Elizabeth M Sykes 9 Scarborough Yorkshire, England
Samuel Sykes 7 Scarborough Yorkshire, England
Henry Sykes 5 Scarborough Yorkshire, England
George Wealer ( Waller) 3/12 Scarborough Yorkshire, England
Elizabeth Sykes 80 Lodger mariners widow ....................Hannah Sykes MOTHER
Margaret Cooper 25 Lodger Scarborough Yorkshire, England
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Brilliant work, Judi.
I was pretty sure you were on the right lines, then "mariners" widow clinches it!
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Ancestry has scan of Richard and Christiana's marriage cert attached to a public member tree. Residence of both was Beeford at time of marriage. Witnesses were two members of Lokie family. Neither has a father mentioned.
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Just noticed that on the 1851 census for Richard William Sykes and christiannah
the George Lalie aged 30 Lodger is in fact
George LOCKIE aged 30 born 1821 Burlington, Yorkshire, England.....Gentleman servant...........may well be a BROTHER to Christiannah.
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A George Lockie is one of the witnesses to the marriage, the other is a bit faint but I think it's John.
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And if Richard senior was in the Coastguard service, the National Archives has lists of personnel. Digitised and downloadable.
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Using Richard & Hannah Sykes's birthplace as a guide, I looked for Richard snr in the Establishment books at Alnmouth. He was posted there as a boatman in June 1821. I think he had previously served on the revenue cutter Stag at Grimsby, probably as a seaman. (See TNA references ADM 75/3 and ADM75/74 downloadable free as part of the Digital Microfilm project - big files! )
Unfortunately there is nothing in the book to say where he went next - not even discharged or dead :-\
These are some of the earliest coast guard records. It is possible that he might be listed on the Stag's log or musters.
Nell
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Oh wow!! all this information is amazing thanks very much guys. muchly appreciated.. I have Richard William sykes death certificate. he died at the age of 72 from heart diease.. his daughter Elizabeth was present at the time.
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hey there Nell
does it happen to have Richard SNR birthdate??
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Hi
From Alnmouth he had the following postings:
13 Oct 1827 Craster - ADM 175/5 pdf 212
4 Aug 1830 Bacton - 175/5 pdf 210
6 Aug 1831 Greenhithe - 175/5 pdf 276
10 Jan 1832 Ramsgate - 175/5 pdf 346
27 April 1832 Clackton Wash - 175/5 pdf 107
6 Aug 1833 Flambrough - 175/6 pdf 659
Discharged 21 Sept 1839 - 175/6 pdf 582
Stag's Muster Book: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2189940 (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2189940)
but this can only be viewed in person at the NA.
Martin
Coastguards of Yesteryear
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1841
Flamborough Yorkshire
Elizabeth Sykes 50
Margaret 20
Hannah 15
Elizabeth 12
Mary 9
None bn in county
So assuming Margaret, Elizabeth and Mary are siblings to Hannah and Richard William and matching with Richard snr's movements we should be looking for baptisms in Grimsby for Margaret,
Elizabeth in Craster and Mary in Ramsgate or Clackton Wash.(is that Clacton, Essex?).
Marriage for Richard snr and Elizabeth likely to be Grimsby
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May just be a coincidence because location is not where I expected.
Ancestry has baptisms for Elizabeth Sykes and Mary Ann Sykes on 9 Nov 1831 at Woolwich. It is noted that Elizabeth was born on 22 Aug 1828 and Mary Ann born on 29 Nov (1831), parents Richard and Elizabeth, his occupation sailor, abode Rope yard Rails.
The family should be in Greenhithe at this time, but that's only about 13 miles from Woolwich, but it does seem a good fit otherwise.
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And Familysearch has Margaret Sikes (sic) bapt 1 Nov 1819 Grimsby, father Richard, mother Elizabeth GS film number 432515, Batch number: C01135-2.
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Hi
Given that the family were in Flamborough Yorkshire in 1841 and the last child listed was Mary born approx 1832 and the father Richard was not with the family in 1841 and may well have died, this could be the death of Richard Sykes (Senior) from Family search
Richard Sykes
Burial Date 16 Feb 1840
Burial Place Flamborough, York, England
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Yes that certainly fits well, less than 6 months after discharge from Coastguard service. I wonder if there was a compulsory retirement age that he reached in Sept 1839, or he was discharged for ill health.
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death reg for this burial - quarter 1 1840 Bridlington district vol 23 page14
As Sikes
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possible marriage for oldest daughter Margaret
Q3 1841 Bridlington district vol 23 page 25
(free bmd)
Possible spouses: Thomas Cowen, James Nicholson, William Stratton
The fourth one was called Hudson Edmond, he was married to a Mary in 1851, with no sign of a second marriage in between, so it looks like he married Mary Clubley, so can be eliminated.
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this could be Margaret sykes marriage
Thomas Cowen born 1819 aged 22 years old married Margaret Sykes aged 21 years old on the 3rd July 1841 in Flamborough york England
His father Thomas Cowan her father Richard Sykes
From Family Search
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And Q4 1841 birth registered for Richard Sykes Cowan in Bridlington district vol 23 page 19. So he came along quick!
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Richard Sykes Cowen
Baptism 12 Sep 1841
Place Flamborough,York,England
Father Thomas Cowen
Mother Margaret
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Can't seem to find any census records for Cowan family in 1851. Maybe they emigrated.
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snap
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on the 1841 census Thomas Cowen was living with or next door to the Sykes family
just for the records ..... which may well explain the early arrival of their son Richard Sykes Cowan
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Theres' a single mark after Mary's name and a double after Thomas, I think that is separate household but in same house. I think he might have been the lodger. Surprisingly no occupation listed for him, although he is of working age.
Probably reached a dead end with the Cowans.
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does it happen to have Richard SNR birthdate??
Sorry, no - I would have included it if it had.
Nell
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You's probably have to get a copy of death cert to be sure of that. Of course age at death depends on best knowledge of informant. But as he was survived by his wife, likely she was informant and she'd know better than most. I don't think early death Certificates would have details like where he was born though.