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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Brian Boggs on Monday 08 September 14 04:58 BST (UK)
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I have been researching this ship for about thirty years and am trying to find the names of the un named children and single girls on this ship There were 195 children on board and only sixteen were named. Since 1983, I have reduced the number of unknowns from 179 to 69. The following people i have not been able to identify the children:- John and Mary McCulloch/McCullogh 3 males and 3 females ( parents from Tyrone, he a stonecutter); Mathew and Alice McIlroy 3 females (parents from Tyrone, he a cooper); John and Mary Kelly 2 males and 2 females he a farmer from Tyrone); John and Rose Ingram from Fermanagh he a blacksmith, 3 females;
As this is getting a bitlengthy, I will not add the other parents and missing children's names but I will post the full list of children's names found later.
In addition, I am missing nine single girls'names out of twenty on board.
Alick Osborne, surgeon on the ship sent a full list to the Colonial Emigration Office prior to leaving for Australia. The records were copied for the AJCP but it appears that this list is missing from the records copied (why I don't know)
The list that I have i found in the quarantine papers in 1985 and this list is the one that all current information has been gleaned from by archivists here in Australia. This post is enough! More later.
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"Mathew and Alice McIlroy 3 females (parents from Tyrone, he a cooper)"
BDM deaths
14335 / 1894 MCELROY Charles parents Matthew / Alice Waverley
764 / 1861 MCELROY Sarah parents Matthew / Alicia Sydney
3168 / 1878 MCELROY Matthew age 78yrs died Paddington
1376 / 1873 MCELROY Alice age 74yrs died Sydney
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NSW birth/baptisms that i could find, might be more
1555/1841 MCILROY JOHN father MATTHEW mother ALICIA
2489/1843 MCILROY CHARLES father MATHEW mother ALICIA
The Australian (Sydney, NSW : 1824 - 1848)
Wednesday 21 September 1842
McIlroy Matthew, house, Surry-Hills
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/37116655?
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More on the Adam Lodge passengers:-
I am going to list more of the unknown children and passengers:-
1) David and Margaret Cameron from Belfast, he a carpenter and died September, 1837. She remarried George Murray 1831. An unknown female Protestant religion.
2) Henry (b1813) and Julia (b1813) Callen from Donegal, he a stone mason; One male and one female unknown, Children born here ? George 1844. Mary Anne 1852
3) Charles (b1807) and Rose Meehan, he a Stone Mason. A female unknown, Catholic religion
Wollongong area? Protestant religion
4) James (b1813) and Mary Kildea from Donegal , he a blacksmith. Female born on ship 17th May 1837. Catholic religion
That is enough for this time
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Mathew & Alice McIlroy are likely to be the Parents of Charles McElroy Died Waverly in 1894 aged 51.
Charles McElroy... & Emily Elizabeth (nee Gorman) known as Elizabeth lived at 20 Belmore st Sydney. Married in 1865.
They had 6 or more children....
Florence b,1866
Michael A b.1869
Margaret Alice b.1870
Emily E (Nellie) b..unregistered (was 3rd eldest daughter)
Charles Augustus b. 1877- died 1939 Waverly
Edith Grace b.1879
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Thank you for reply on 23rd November. At present, the story on McElroy is as follows:
Matthew, a cooper, born 1800 and his wife Alice both Catholics from County Tyrone arrived on the Adam Lodge with their three female children in Sydney in 1837. The children on arrival were most likely Sarah, born 1833 died Cumberland 1861 aged 28 yrs ; and maybe Margaret who married John Crenaga in 1863 and either June, Bridget or Mary who had marriages to Henry Buck 1864; John Gillies in Sydney 1875 and William Thompson at Armidale in 1866 respectively .
Matthew McIlroy had a house in Surry Hills in 1842
Alice, the mother died 1873 at age 74 in Sydney; Matthew the father died 1878 in Paddington in 1878.
Two sons, John baptised 1841 and Charles born 1843 were born in Sydney and on the voyage out, John, a son, died on July 13th aged 1 year and 6 months
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Thank you,
You have helped me remove a great Heritage splinter !
If I ever find you I'll buy you a beer !!
Great stuff, not sure where you get all this but I appreciate it...
For accuracy I have Matthew & Alice (McILroy also McAlroy) (also Mathew & Alicia)
who boarded "Adam Lodge" with three Children (all Girls?? say you ..)
Unfortunately on the day they arrived in Sydney Harbour Matthew McIlroy aged 14 months died.
as per Alik Osbourne's Log 1837.
"July 13: "Fine weather at 10am pilot on board. Died this morning Matthew Mcilroy (sic)
aged 14 mos. Buried at 11am. At 2pm died Mrs Egan of pleurisy. Anchored in Neutral bay"'.
Maybe little Matthew was no listed ? maybe only two girls ?
MY GGF X 4 Matthew & John his older brother were Registered Births in NSW.
My gut feel is they appeared to settle as a "Sydney town family"
If you could share any info links on the girls I'd appreciate it..
Regards
John McElroy
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Hi there,
I think the surname has been mish-mashed even further .... McAHOY....
I suspect they are indexed as MCAHOY at the online index of Miscellaneous Immigrants at NSW State Records.
http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/indexes-online/indexes-to-immigration-and-shipping-records/index-to-miscellaneous-assisted-immigrants
From other resources :
I think that a list of Mechanics and etc on board the vessel “Adam Lodge” should be available at the State Records Office of NSW, with their references as Volume 4/2378 and No. 37/6632
37-432 Matthew McALROY per Adam Lodge 13 July 1837 to Sydney, a passenger, a Cooper, Catholic, Read and Write, aged 30, native place: Tyrone
37-433 -Alice McALROY passenger, per Adam Lodge 13 July 1837
37-434 Child McALROY, passenger, per Adam Lodge 13 July 1837
37-435 Child McALROY, passenger, per Adam Lodge 13 July 1837
37-436 Child McALROY, passenger, per Adam Lodge 13 July 1837
Cheers, JM
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Sorry Error to Confuse you.....
"MY GGF X 4 Matthew & John his older brother were Registered Births in NSW." ???
I meant to type
My GGF X 3 CHARLES & John his older brother were Registered Births in NSW.
Regards
John
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Cheers Majm....your too clever..!
Made me laugh-- I can almost imagine a illiterate Irishman.
Standing in a que announcing his name in a thick Irish Derry accent ..."McElroy"
No wonder the spelling variations !!
Regards
John McElroy
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Yes, well, all I did was use that online index and just entered the ship's name.... and then scrolled through to the "Mc" entries....
and had a good giggle at "Mac" .... "A HOY" but my resource has Matthew as literate. If standing in a queue, giving verbal responses to questions, then the ledger is facing the clerk who asks the questions. Not too many people, even today, can read clerks' scribblings upside down and from a height, even if they are University Professors....
Cheers, JM
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My new mate Majm,
How do you know he was literate ???..I'm intrigued.
I clearly need to work the State index better, as I couldn't find Adam Lodge at all (not listed)....I was scrolling through a 100 ships on the index & Trove looking for names & guessing dates..
Without you guys I'd never of known about Adam Lodge ?
I did find Alice in a police report in 1846...being deservedly assaulted for rudeness..(laughing).
Any more info links would be appreciated on Matt & Alice in Ireland ?
Regards
John
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Go back to my earlier post .... see the reference nos from the State Records .... well I have some (many) offline resources NSW-centric, and I also have offline indexes. I looked these up and typed up from those. I am presuming they are based on the State Records NSW reels that I cited.
There is also a fairly newish index, the Biographical Database of Australia some parts of it require annual subs, but other parts are free ....
Here's a link http://www.bda-online.org.au/
As I understand it, in response to the question "Read/Write" on these lists, "R" means read only; "Both" means read and write and "No" or "None" means cannot read or write. It also presumes that one cannot write unless one can firstly read.
Cheers, JM
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Once again, thank you for your reply. I must confess to confusion on little Matthew McElroy aged 1 year and 6 months at 4 am on July 13th The reason for the discrepancy in the names (I said John, the Surgeon Osborne listed him in his returns as John and of course he is named Matthew in Osborne's Journal of Occurrences.
The reason I have collected my information was that I started researching the Adam Lodge passengers back in 1980. At that time no list of passengers existed as confirmed by Madgewick in "Immigration into Eastern Australia". No internet so all information was gleaned via hard slog in Tamworth and my paucity of information is there to see. A chance discovery of a passenger list at the Rocks in the Quarantine Papers in 1983 lifted a great deal of the mystery on the ship's passengers.
However, the list was not complete. Missing from the list was the names of about 160 children and 20 single females which I am still pursuing today. At present i have the names of all but about 12 of the children and am missing about the same nuumber of single girls. I have a researcher looking for the list of passengers sent to England just before the ship sailed. Keep your fingers crossed because if it is found, it will be complete
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Thank you Brian (& Majm),
Without you, I would never have found out how the McElroy's got here, I was stuck on Charles !!
So I;- for the McElroy's --appreciate your tenacity !!!
I'm still unsure how you know there were girls in the "McAlroy" or "McAhoy" family list ?
Regards
The Bloodline !
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The shipping list supplied by surgeon Alick Osborne to the Colonial Architect in 1837 I found at the Rocks in 1983 lists as follows:
Family number 37, McAlroy, Matthew. Age 30 from Tyrone. Catholic religion can both read and write, Conduct on board good and no relatives in Australia. He is a cooper. Now a rather strange entry-the two pounds deposit has not been returned to him but probably an omission of sureon as he claimed all passengers had deposit returned in Sydney.His wife Alice and three children, all females listed against her entry but no notes regarding beaviour, education etc. This list should be available but because it was not found until 1983 unlike most of the other list, it appears to have escaped the wide dissemination to other sources like the other passenger lists
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Just wondering if anyone has come across the name Irvine in relation to the Adam Lodge? I note that there are a number of Irwin's in the passenger list, which from what I understand is interchangeable with Irvine.
I'm looking for a Rebecca Irvine who married a John Sims in Sydney in 1848. The form granting them permission to marry indicates she arrived on the Adam Lodge a free individual. She would have been born around 1825.
Many thanks for any advice.
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Are you looking at the actual form or at a transcription of the form? ... the long-hand script can be very much just a scribble at times, and in my view IRWIN and IRVINE can be mis-read either way. The NSW BDM online index has the marriage as IRVINE, but I know that it was not until the 1930s that any index by surnames was available for NSW BDM staff. The current index was originally prepared by volunteers working under natural light and coping with the fragile records back to 1787, bound up into volumes by around 1912, and subject to much thumbing through, ink bleeds, torn corners, missing pages etc since their original preparations.
If your 1848 document says she arrived free on the Adam Lodge, then I think that if it is the Permission to Marry, that would be reliable. :)
I can see John and Rebecca were married at "NL" - That would be St Andrews, Church of England, https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Documents/early-church-codes.pdf
I can see the birth and baptism for Sarah Rebecca :) daughter of John and Rebecca SIMS, born 4 February 1849 and baptised 4 March 1849, See NSW BDM baptism record for 1849, volume 34A, line 28. John SIMS was a stonemason. The baptism ceremony is recorded in St Philip’s C of E, Sydney by Rev William COWPER.
I will try to check further, but it may be some days before I have spare moments to get to my own offline resources for that decade after the ceasation of convicts to NSW and before the gold rushes ...
ADD
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/about-us/history-of-registry.aspx
JM
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Did she come out with folks, siblings?
Added: I note that there are a number of Irwin's in the passenger list
Yes, but none are a ‘Rebecca’
Jamjar
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Thanks so much for your help and advice Majm!! The form is in long-hand so difficult to read. Agree the two names can be easily confused.
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Not sure Jamjar. The permission to marry does not mention her parents. It clearly indicates the Adam Lodge. Is the passenger list complete?
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WoolleyNZ,
Don't forget the Adam Lodge came again in 1840 ...
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WoolleyNZ,
Don't forget the Adam Lodge came again in 1840 ...
From NSW State Records:
1840 Feb 14 ADAM LODGE Page 001 1837_1841
1841 Aug 30 ADAM LODGE Page 001 1841_1866
Can’t see her on the 1840 or 1841:
http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?Page=NRS5313/4_4781/Adam%20Lodge_Adam%20Lodge_14%20Feb%201840/4_478100044.jpg&No=1
http://indexes.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.aspx?Page=NRS5316/4_4788/Adam%20Lodge_30%20Aug%201841/4_478800177.jpg&No=1
Jamjar
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Where was her death registered? Did it give folk’s names?
Jamjar
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The only Rebecca showing on the Adam Lodge 1837, on NSW State Records - Index to Miscellaneous Immigrants:
Adam Lodge OSBORNE Rebecca - 13/07/1837 COD 394 144 [4/2378] - NRS 905
Others:
OSBORNE Catherine
OSBORNE James 19
OSBORNE Robert 28
Jamjar
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Is the passenger list complete?
You need to go back and read the first post on this thread, which refers to the passengers being unnamed on the 1837 voyage.
There were 83 males, 81 females, 20 unmarried females and 195 children. From the first post it appears that the only names recorded were those in the quarantine papers.
Debra :)
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Thanks for the clarification regarding the list.
This is all a bit messy as Rebecca re-married shortly after her first husband passed. She married a John Cooper in 1858. She then emigrated to Christchurch NZ around 1880 according to her death certificate. Passed away in 1894 and is buried with her daughter Martha Dunn (nee Sims), Martha's husband Charles Dunn, and their son Joseph Henry Dunn (my great grandfather). Martha and Charles married in Sydney.
Rebecca's death certificate lists both her husbands and places of marriage as Sydney. Indicates her place of birth as Ireland, but not the actual location. Her parents are listed as Robert Irvine and Sarah Noble.
Any help really appreciated as I'm struggling with this one!
WoolleyNZ
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Hi,
Re: Rebecca
Is there any indication on the Permission to Marry for the 1848 marriage of Rebecca's then age.
On the parish register for that 1848 marriage, in the white space to the left of the signatures for the bride and for the groom ... is there any handwritten number ... ie has the clergy recorded the then age of either party...
Re the 1837 voyage Adam Lodge some info that needs validation...
A NSW chap named James IRWIN was written up in a book released in 1888 (marking centenary for NSW) : 'Australian Men of Mark - Illustrated with Authentic Portraits' ... available on CD ... perhaps your local family history group has it?
James was born 1833, Ireland, and came on the Adam Lodge with his family. His dad was an engineer and blacksmith. This dad was 'at once employed by the Imperial Government' including on the building of the Darlinghurst Gaol. Next he worked for himself, setting up a forge at Maitland (circa 1840) then 1847 moved family to upper Williams River ... NO MENTION of any female family members ... but the 1833 born lad, James ... he worked for his dad, gained good knowledge of the trade, set out on his own to the goldfields, firstly around Hanging Rock, then 1876 Barrington goldfields .... £37,000 in gold in 2 1/2 years, used this to promote the South Pacific Petroleum Co in the North Island of NEW ZEALAND ... Also had interests in the silver mines (in NZ)... By 1888, he had retired to Forest Lodge (suburb of Sydney near Glebe - near Sydney Uni) ...
JM
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:D :D :D I have Found the Application to Marry
John SIMS,33, and Rebecca IRVINE 23 :) It clearly shows arrived free per Adam Lodge, but NO mention of which voyage.
Scribe's handwriting clear to read, I notice that the application immediately above shows one of the parties as arriving Asia (6) ... and immediately under Rebecca's one of the parties arriving on Mangles (7) ... BUT no mention of which voyage number for Adam Lodge. Sometimes the lack of a voyage number actually has been taken to indicate it was the first voyage to the port for a vessel.
So I do understand why it is thought Rebecca IRVINE may have arrived on the 1837 voyage of the Adam Lodge. If 23 in Jan 1848 then she was a lass of around 14 in 1837 ... possibly came unaccompanied... perhaps one of the missing lasses mentioned by the Original Poster. Perhaps best if you consider sending a PM to them. :) although they have not been online here since 2015. :)
JM
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Thanks for your help JM. I'll try and PM him.
WoolleyNZ