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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: nethercs on Saturday 06 September 14 05:03 BST (UK)
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Looking for the Marriage of Annibal VISTARINI and Anna GALLIMBERTI.
Said to have occurred in Fosano, Piedmont in 1852
(I have 3 references to their marriage in Piedmont. One says 17 May 1852, one says 18 June 1852 and the other just says 1852.)
Anna is said to have been born in Fosano Piedmont, abt 1830 d/o Charles GALLIMBERTI & Louisa TOGNO (or TOGNOCA)
This couple emigrated to Australia in 1853. The references to their marriage are from their children's birth certificates. References to her parents are from the certificates for Anna's later marriages in Australia.
Thanks
Steve
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Fossano in Cuneo is probably the place you're looking for.
There are some records for the area online but it doesn't look like records for Fossano itself are actually online (yet?):
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/1392991
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I think Fossano is correct.
Fossano is a town and comune of Piedmont, Italy, in the province of Cuneo. It is the fourth largest town of the Province of Cuneo. (Wikipedia)
So yes, in Piedmont, in the province of Cuneo.
I had looked online and not found anything.
Regards
Steve
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Hi,
I have sent an e-mail to the Cuneo State Archives here in Italy requesting a copy of the Marriage Certificate, which will show d.o.b and parents and maybe more, depends. As soon as I get it will let you know and can translate it for you if necerssary.
There are very few online Italian records. Use either the town hall where the event happened or the State Archives of the province, depends on year.
Takes time, so a little patience.
Steve
(Italy)
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Excellent, thank you
I look forward to hearing from you
Steve Nethercote
Melbourne Australia
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Just a note to let you know I am still waiting for the doument.
Will give another couple of days and then will drop a reminder.
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the update.
Regards
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Just got an e-mail from the "Beni Culturali" of Cuneo, Piemonte.
There is no record of a marriage for a Vistarini and or Gallimberti in the year 1852 for the Comune di Fossano.
Now to take it further, the info you have is from a Birth certificate. Is that Italian or Australian?
Can I see the documents?
Sending you a PM with my e-mail.
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Sent that PM.
Being curious I tried to find a town "Fosano" instead of "Fossano" in Italy and it does not exist.
But curiosly found this:-
FOSANO is one of the districts of the town of Gambarogno on the shores of Lake Maggiore in the Canton of Ticino(Italian Switerland).
Don't know if this relates or not.
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Thank you for your e-mail and all the extra details. I have replied.
So for our Forum Members:-
As The Beni Culturali do not have a note of the marriage I have written directly to Fossano and also posed the question - Is it possible the marriage took place only in Church and was never registered with the Authorities.
Have also written to Lodi to obtain the Birth certificate of Annibale Vistarini.
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Have just sent you an e-mail and for our Forum members here is an update.
The Comune di Fossano do not have the records as they start from 1866. Suggested I write to the "Curia Vescovile" ( Diocesan Administration) in Fossano. Have written to them now and see what transpires.
There is a possibility they married only in Church and thats why the records are not available through the normal channels.
Still waiting to hear from Lodi.
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Sent you an e-mail and herenis annupdate for our forum members.
Just got a reply and they do not have any records amd they searched five before and after the year.
So thats about everybody checked. State Archives, Fossano Town and the Docese. I am thinking maybe they married somewhere else or was it they were never married amd said they were.
Not sure now where to look.
Steve
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That's unfortunate, Steve. All the same, I'd just like to say thank you for going above and beyond on this and other threads in this forum.
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Many thanks Steve for all your efforts. Italy is a mystery to me, although some years ago I spent a month holidaying in Tuscany and really enjoyed it.
Could they have married somewhere else? Yes it is possible. Most references to the marriage on their children’s birth certificates just say “Italy” for the place of marriage. One goes further to say “Piedmont, Italy” (Vistarini EHL 1855 BC.pdf). It was assumed by family that this was referring to the region of Piedmont of which Fossano is a town. (Fossano being Anna’s place of birth according to her Australian records.) But perhaps we should have read it as the marriage occurring in the town of Piedmont.
Not sure how big a haystack Piedmont (the town) was in the 1850s, but as a regional centre it might not be a small town.
As I think I said before, whether they married in Italy or not is the mystery. They claimed to have married on their children’s birth certificates. But after they split up Annibal acts as if they were married and Anna acts as it they weren’t. Annibal had 10 children with his 2nd partner, but never married her (presumably to not be a bigamist). Anna married in a Catholic church and claimed never to have been married although she had 4 living children. On another occasion Anna claimed on a legal document that the father of her children was dead (which was not true.) On the balance of probabilities I think that they married in Italy, but I don’t have the evidence.
Regards
Steve,
Melbourne, Australia
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Hi Steve,
Just sent you an e-mail. For our forum members an update.
Piedmonte or Piemonte in italian is a region and not a town.
Had a think and have now written to the Archives regional office of Piemonte
(Direzione Regionale per i Beni Culturali del Piemonte) to see if they know anything or can throw some light on the subject.
By the way what does (Vistarini EHL. 1855 pdf) mean that you mentioned?
Steve
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"(Vistarini EHL 1855 BC.pdf)." was a note to myself. It is the file name of the birth certificate I was referring to and only meant for me. I meant to delete it from the outgoing message.
Regards
Steve
Melbourne, Australia
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Hi Steve,
Just had a reply from the State Archives of Piemonte and not good news.:-
In referance to your request we comunicate that the State Archives do not conserve State documents relating to B.M.D. These records up to 1865 can be found in the Historical Archives of the towns or Parrochial Registers. From 1866 these documents can be found in the Register Offices of the various towns. It is necerssary to know the exact location of the marriage of Annibale Vistarini. As an example if he was married in Turin you would need to write to the Historical Archives of Turin or the Archives of the Archbishop of Turin. The Archbishops records start from 1823. End of message.
As a matter of interest there are 8 Provinces in the Region of Piemonte making up a total of 1206 towns. Which is the Province and or which is the town?
At this point I would say it is a needle in a haystack.
Anything I can do for you?
Steve
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Thanks Steve, you have been fantastic in your efforts. Its sad that we didn't find the answer we want. But even not finding the marriage is progress in a way. We now know that the marriage wasn't in Fossano and we have an idea of the effort that would be required to make a complete search. That haystack is too big and the possibility that there is no needle in the haystack is too significant to warrant taking the search further.
Many thanks for all your efforts.
Regards
Steve
PS: If you ever want some help with Australian or New Zealand research I can assist.
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Hi Steve,
Last update for our forum members.
Reply from Lodi for the Birth certificate of Vistarini Annibale. Given the year 1824, the records are held by the "Curia Ecclesiastica" and you need to know the name of Church where he was baptised/christened. Given that they will be able to release a copy Birth certificate.
So sorry to say another dead end.
Steve
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Thanks Steve for all your efforts. Everything is a result, even if sometimes we don't find the answer we hoped for. We have learned a bit more and that is all to the good.
Regards
Steve
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Hi Steve,
I am a descendant of Annibal Vistarini and have been trying to track down a birth certificate or further details without much luck so far. Looks like you have put a fair bit of effort in too! I would be interested to know if we are related; I have been adding lots of names to my family tree in Ancestry.com.au in the last year or so.
Ps my relationship goes like this; my father's mother was Esther Mary Vistarini, her father was Achilles Vistarini, his father was Annibal Vistarini. Not sure which of Annibal's ladies were Achilles' mother - do you know, perchance?
In any case, I would be pleased to hear from you.
Cheers,
Shane Pieper
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Hi Shane,
No I am not related.
This was a research I was doing on behalf another forum member as I live in Italy.
I have a posting "Italian Research" on the forum where people write to me requesting certificates, documents etc in Italy and I try and obtain them - sometimes successful and sometimes not. I made this posting because there is not a lot of Italian info on the internet. Its easy for me to write to the various bodies here for info.
If, however, I can be of any help to you in your Italian research, please let me know and I will try my best for you.
Steve
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Thanks for that clarification Steve, I noted several Dickinsons and Vistarinis at links on RootsChat so assumed you might have a connection to the Dickinsons. How fortunate you are to live in Italy! I spent almost a fortnight in the tiny village of Ameglia (near Sarzana) in 2012 and hope to explore Piedmont one day.
It looks like I need to find out the specific church and town where this elusive marriage occurred before there is any hope of tracking down any documentation. I have recently been in contact with some bearers of the Vistarini name so I will check with them and see where it goes.
Thanks for taking the time to reply,
Regards
Shane Pieper
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Hi Shane, I am replying because i started this conversation some time ago when I was researching the Vistarini families as part of my research into families connected to the Nethercotes. (Myrtle Vistarini married Claude Nethercote in 1915.)
I was going to attached a copy of the chapter I wrote on the Vistarini and Dickinson families for the Nethercote-Pell Family History. However it is too big for the Rootschat server - 2.5 MB. I can email it to you if you send me your email address.
Steve Nethercote
snethercote@optusnet.com.au