RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: karen58 on Tuesday 02 September 14 11:41 BST (UK)
-
Hi
I have a burial record for Hannah PITCHFORTH, nee HANSON, buried 14 Feb 1833 at Woodhouse, Christ Church. The records lists her place of abode as Sunny Bank.
Hannah married Joseph PITCHFORTH, 20 Jun 1830 at Huddersfield.
Hannah was born at Fartown and Joseph was born at Fixby. Joseph was living at Cowcliffe by the 1841 census and remained their until he died. So I have been trying to find something in these areas.
The only place I can find near the Cowcliffe/Fartown area is the Sunnybank preschool on Saddleworth Road at Greetland and I'm certain that is not it.
Does anyone have what Sunny Bank could be?
Anything would be appreciated
Warm regards
Karen
-
There are Sunnybank Roads in Mirfield and Brighouse - neither are very far from Fartown. I think there's one in Halifax too, from memory. Obviously quite a common local placename, so there may have been others in the area.
-
There's also one off Edgerton Road (near Huddersfield Royal Infirmery), which might be nearer than the Mirfield or Brighouse Sunnybanks.
Mike
-
Hello Mike
Thank you for your help. There are a few Sunny Bank Roads and conceivable Mirfield and Brighouse Roads could be the correct location.
Warm Regards
Karen
-
Karen
There was a Sunny Bank in Cowcliffe. It was a Farm and land which was sold for housing in the 1960's. The last farmers were Armitages. It is now called York Avenue estate and is to the right off Cowcliffe Hill Road. There is a Birklands Road to the left and almost opposite a road to the right. Huddersfield the nearest town is just short of two miles away. At the top of Cowcliffe Hill is Cowcliffe/Fixby Park/ Fixby. I live on Fixby Park and have done a lot of history on the area.
The Pitchfords are mentioned on the Perambulation on the 26th October 1809 when it says 'they turned Westward by the wall on the South side to a house occupied by William Pitchforth and forward' We have worked it out to be somewhere near North Cross road or near the Shepherds Public House which is dated about 1838. It's not the original building but I believe on the same site. Wyn
-
Wynb is right!
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html
In the link page above
Enter in the search box top left Knaresborough drive, Huddersfield
then right click on -go
A list of house numbers for Karesborough drive will come up in blue
Right Click on one of them
Next page
on the right menu, you will see - All Available maps
Under the words -All Available maps - you will see the 1854 map box-right click on the blue box -Enlarge map -Right Click this box
Next page
In the left to middle big box -a big view 1854 black and white map will have appeared
Your cursor will have a + plus sign on it-click once and a closer view will appear with a minus sign on the cursor now.
(A magnifying glass my help here.)
Using the slide bars find the extra big * Huddersfield * lettering across the map
Under the letters H and U in HUDDERSFIELD you will see SunnyBank farm
Above the letter F in HUDDERSFIELD across the map you will see Christ church Woodhouse.
Hope it helps.
-
Hello Wynb and dobfarm
Thank you so much for your help, I am very grateful. This information is very helpful indeed and I feel confident that this is the Sunny Bank referred to on the burial register.
I have been searching that map for weeks now without success - only eye strain. I don't know how you did it. You are both brilliant.
You can do away with the magnifying glass by hitting the control key and the + key on your keyboard two or three of times, to enlarge the image on the screen. This helps a lot. To revert to normal image size just hit the control key and the - key two or three times.
Thank you again
Warm Regards
Karen
-
Hi Karen,
Glad you know the keyboard keys method to zoom in/out
Though I thought is would be easier to say have a magnifying glass, than explain the keyboard method on top of and not to take your attention off the more important old maps usage instuctions to find that farm.
regards
Dobby
-
Karen
Perambulation means "walking around". In traditional English law, it is used specifically to mean "determining the bounds of a legal area by walking around it", meaning physically walking around the region in question. It was land owned by the Thornhills who owned Fixby Hall. Robert Oastler and then Richard Oastler ( Factory King) were the estate managers during William Pitchforths life.
Most of the roads didn't have names so they used people's homes or well established trees and Boundary stones and points of the compass for the direction they walked, to define the area. I do have a copy of the document if I can send it you. I am new to all this.
Wynb
-
Hi Wynb
Thank you for offering to send me the document.
Below is a link to a rootschat page that gives instructions on how to attach files. The instructions are midway down the page under the heading: 2) Adding an image to a posting
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130922.0.html (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130922.0.html)
There are restrictions on file size. If the file is too large I think there are other options - I will investigate.
I also have attached a file on this reply - hope it works. The instructions tell you to hold your breath and cross your fingers. I am also biting my bottom lip for good measure.
The attached file is an 1841 census document for William Pitchforth. As you will see, the census is for the Township of Fixby in the Parish of Halifax, yet William lives in Cowcliffe.
This is confusing me somewhat and am hoping you may cast some light on this.
According to the baptism registers, William's six children were born at Fixby and his wife's burial register (1846) records her place of abode as Fixby. However, William's burial register (1850) records his place of abode as Cowcliffe in the Parish of Huddersfield.
Joseph, William's son, was also living at Cowcliffe and he is enumerated on the 1841 census for the Parish of Huddersfield. The strangest thing is Ivy house is listed on both districts.
Would by grateful for any information you may offer.
Warm Regards
Karen
-
Hello Karen
I think the Cowcliffe Sunnybank was your Pitchforth's
see link
Sir J W Ramsden and John Pitchforth. Lease of farm buildings and land at Sunny Bank, Cowcliffe
1869
http://catalogue.wyjs.org.uk/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=KCZ0016%2f1%2f14%2f2%2f31&pos=5
In the link below
Scroll down page to and click on
Episcopal Areas, Archdeaconries, Deaneries, Benefices
Number 215
Episcopal Areas- Archdeaconrie - Deaneries - Benefices
Huddersfield - Halifax - Huddersfield - Fixby & Cowcliffe
https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cowcliffe+halifax+parish
1801, 1811, 1821, and 1831 censuses were part Gov and parish head counts being more statistics
Post 1837 and 1841 census onward in 51c, 61c, etc in its most basic form, was the start change from Parish run affairs to councils and government run affairs at local level. The bigger urban town council boroughs, again at the most basic form, was like the centre of a cart wheel of it outer boundaries. These town boundaries did not use parish boundaries and cross overs of abodes in parish register and 1841 census
Pre 1837 -The big mother parish ruled local level government of its inhabitants, these could be towns or ancient villages mother church's. ie :- Almondbury or town parish like Huddersfield parish and Halifax parish with chapelries of villages in the outer parish. Therefore abodes in Fixby Huddersfield census 1841 and Fixby in the parish of Halifax.
Fixby is above the wording- ' Old chapels marked' at the the bottom of the map page in link below
Enter - halifax parish map in the search engine
http://www.calderdale.gov.uk/wtw/search/controlservlet?PageId=Zoom&DocId=100955&PageNo=1
Though Huddersfield is called Kirklees council with Dewsbury today we still get cross over with Halifax Calderdale with Huddersfield in the NHS trust
http://www.examiner.co.uk/all-about/calderdale-and-huddersfield-nhs-foundation-trust
A book to read
https://archive.org/details/storyofoldhalifa00hansrich
-
Hi Dobby
Wow, thank you.
The information on episcopal has clarified the Cowscliffe/Fixby overlap for me.
Thank you for finding the reference to the lease document. I will order the document tonight and let you know if there is a link.
If the John named in the lease is William's brother, than he would be Hannah's uncle by marriage.
Thank you again
Karen
-
Wynb's first info of the Sunny Bank lead the way and needs take the credit.
Surprising what info soon turns up and falls in, once a place location is known or first found.
I hope Wynb stays with Rootchat as a member advising other members, being interested in history of Halifax/Huddersfield areas.
Regards
Dobby
-
Karen
This was my explanation which is possibly irrelevant now but here goes.
Cowcliffe boundaries have always been unclear. Fixby for many years was in Halifax and then in a Boundary change became Huddersfield. Need to check date but possibly early 1920's.
According to the HDFHS Fixby census return A-Z index 1841/51 published in 1992 states the following: Fixby a township in the Parish of Halifax had a population of 399.
Unfortunately the Cowcliffe area was very much divided by a parliamentary boundary, one side was owned by the Thornhills (Fixby) and the other by the Ramsdens (Huddersfield). The Inn (1837). Methodist Church (1836) and St Hilda's Church (1850's) School were all on the Ramsden land.
Although your ancestor is mentioned on the document it is not possible to exactly say were he was living but it was probably adjacent to this boundary
The boundary passed very close to Ivy House Farm probably passing through the land surrounding it which might explain why it has been counted twice. This area is now a residential road although Ivy House still exists and there are pictures of it on the internet. I believe it was built on in the 1950's.
Trying to send part of the perambulation information, all is much too large.
Wynb
(http://)
-
Dear Wynb and Dobby
The perambulation was really helpful. A person named in the document is also on the 1841 census living close to William.
Also, purhaps I have been confused by Google maps. Google locates Cowcliffe on the other side of Bradford Road, nearer to Sheepridge. None of the places over there marched the places on the census.
Tried using Windows Map which locates Cowcliffe exactly on Cowcliffe Hill Road and things became evident.
From the explanation you both have given, I think I understand the Cowcliffe/Fixby confusion.
Is it that, William's abode was physically in Cowcliffe but, for parliamentary purposes he was within Fixby, because of the parish boundary?
Please let me know if my comprehension is wrong.
If I have this correct, it would explain why he voted in the Halifax Polling District.
On the Poll Books his residence is Fixby, but on the Electoral Registers his place of abode is Cowcliffe, situate in Fixby (sometimes spelt Cawcliffe, there are also examples of enumerators using this spelling on census documents).
His qualification is described, verbatim, as: Freehold Housing, Near Elland upper edge called Copperas houses.
Thank you both. I am truly grateful for your help and interest.
Sincerely
Karen
-
A few bits I googled
I'm not surprised your a bit confused as it seems everyone else still are confused with Cowcliffe (Cowcliff)
Cowcliffe
It is situated between Fixby and Birkby based around Cowcliffe Hill Road. Cowcliffe is a discernible village, though the boundaries aren't clear and is somewhat isolated from the rest of Huddersfield
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowcliffe
1837
The HAMLETS, &c, in Huddersfield Township and Borough, with their distance from the town, are as follows: - Bradley, 3 miles N on the Leeds road; - Deighton and Sheepridge, two villages on the declivities of an eminence, 2 and 2½ miles N, - Fartown, 1 mile N but including within its constablewick, Hillhouse, Cowcliff, Cuckolds Clough, Woodhouse, and Birkby, extending close to the town; - Marsh, 1 mile W, surrounded by a fertile district, with many handsome villas at Egerton &c, - Paddock, 1 mile S W, has in its district Longroyd Bridge, Paddock foot, and many straggling buildings extending to the skirts of the town
(Botton of link below)
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/Huddersfield/Huddersfield37.html
Ramden Estate
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/bradford/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_9421000/9421995.stm
Fixby
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/ChurchCol/WRY/EllandcumStainlandandFixby.html
-
Hi Dobby
Thank you. It is good to have the Cowcliffe/Fixby thing all cleared up.
I think Wynb is right in suggesting that William lived somewhere near North Cross Road. It made sense once I looked at the location on Windows Map rather then Google Maps.
All the effort you and Wynb have made has been very useful and the time being devoted to figuring it out has been very generous.
Perhaps this may help someone else who may have the same puzzlement with Cowcliffe.
Warm Regards
Karen
-
Karen
Hi again. Just looking through my notes on Cowcliffe and have come across the following:
William Pitchforth Cropper of Cowcliffe was a Trustee for Cowcliffe Chapel ( Weslyan) 1837. Croppers were cloth finishers using an implement. Improved machinery from 1811 - 1817 (Luddites) resulted in many being thrown out of work. Information for this came from the Cowcliffe Methodist Church and Sunday School ' Reminiscences and Associations 1836-1936 '
Solomon Pitchforth Cowcliffe Woolstapler April 20th 1869 was described as a Parochial Constable. Not sure if he is one of your ancestors.
-
hi from plum there is a sunny bank across the road from the school that you are on about. if you go up the road across from the school until you get to a point that you have to turn left or right turn right and park up the car and walk across the road and look over the wall there is a large hous that was painted black and white the last time I was in that area, the house is called sunny bank plum.
-
Hello plum
Yes, I have looked at Sunny Bank House, I think its on Sunnybank Rd. There is information on the web about its history and the families that lived there. It would be nice if I could say that my family lived there, but it is a little far away from where the Pitchforths were.
Thank you for the post and your interest.
Regards
Karen
-
Just to add to your list there is/was a Sunny Bank at Meltham. I found an ancestor living at Sunny Bank, previously living at Farnley Tyas.