RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: aussie41353 on Thursday 28 August 14 05:19 BST (UK)
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Hoping you may be able to assist me please. John Balfour Phillips married, in 1894 in Victoria, Mary Jane Freeman who I believe, was born in or around 1874. I am trying to obtain her parents details if that is possible?
Thanking you
Leigh
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Born in NSW - birth place is noted on her marriage registration in Victoria:
FREEMAN Mary Jane b. 1874 GULGONG #14811
Parents: John Edward & Elizabeth Ann
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/
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Marriage:
PHILLIPS Jno Balfour (born WANDILIGONG) m. FREEMAN Mary Jane (born NSW) 1894 #3991
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The reason for my enquiry is that I am very much involved in researching those families who were either born, married, lived or died in Walhalla.
Leigh
Is this another of those families?
Cando
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On the subject of the parents of Mary Jane FREEMAN, I am wondering whether both parents died young.
Reg 6766 Yr 1877 FREEMAN Elizabeth A
Parents John & Mary A
At MUDGEE
Her death may have been associated with this birth and death.
Birth
Reg 15520 Yr 1877 FREEMAN John E
Parents John & E Elizabeth A
At MUDGEE
Death
6806/1877 FREEMAN John E
Parents John E. & Elizabeth A.
At MUDGEE
Death
Reg7000 Yr1879 FREEMAN John E
Aged 40 Years
Died at MUDGEE
Reg at MUDGEE
A Golden Wedding Announcement for another daughter
BABER-FREEMAN.-.July 17, 1900, at Tighe's Hill, by the Rev. Robert Thomas, Methodist Minister. Sidmun C. to Ada, daughter of the late John and Elizabeth Ann Freeman. Mudgee, N.S.W. Present address 2 Cromwell street. New Lambton. 6016
The marriage
Reg 7363 Yr 1900 BABER Sidmun C. to FREEMAN Ada at WICKHAM
Sue
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TROVE has mentions of the sudden death of a John Edward FREEMAN, innkeeper, of Log Paddock, Mudgee, Feb 1879.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13429323
Report of inquest into this death. A Mrs FREEMAN is mentioned so he had, perhaps, married again if it his wife's death shown by Sue in 1877.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18917945
Log Paddock seems to be the name of a mine. In this article (1877) about the mine and the miners there is mention of two deaths in the area - one a baby and the other a married woman after a confinement. Possibly this is Elizabeth and the baby John. :-\ (the information is on the second page of the newspaper extract)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/115376031
Judith
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Yes, Judith I think there was another marriage.
Marriage
Reg 3612 Yr 1877 FREEMAN John Edward
To Rosemanii Elizabeth
At MUDGEE
Birth
Reg16929 Yr 1878 FREEMAN John E
Father JOHN E Mother Elizabeth J
At MUDGEE
Perhaps this Elizabeth married again after John died
Reg 4052 Yr1880 HAWER Thomas
To FREEMAN Elizabeth
At MUDGEE
Sue
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Info on Log Paddock mine:
http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=313527&cmd=sp
It is about 9 k from Mudgee.
I wonder who brought up Mary Jane after her parents died (if it's her parents we've found). I can't see a birth for Ada whose Golden Wedding you mentioned. However I can't find anything on NSW BMD - it just keeps searching and no result except a message to say it isn't working ::)
Judith
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Info on Log Paddock mine:
http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=313527&cmd=sp
It is about 9 k from Mudgee.
I wonder who brought up Mary Jane after her parents died (if it's her parents we've found). I can't see a birth for Ada whose Golden Wedding you mentioned. However I can't find anything on NSW BMD - it just keeps searching and no result except a message to say it isn't working ::)
Judith
There is a possibility the children were raised by their grandfather.
Death Notice
WEAVER. -On the 8th December at the residence of Sidmun Baber, Lambton, John Samuel Weaver, beloved grandfather of Ada Baber ; aged 74 years, Sleep, dearest grandpa, your task Is o'cr, Your loving hands shall toil no more.You always strove to do your best, t'ill Jesus took you home.to rest. New Zealand papers please copy.
Marriage
REG 2269 Yr 1863 WEAVER John Samuel to RICHARDS Mary Ann at FORBES
The names of the couple agree with those on the death of Elizabeth Ann FREEMAN.
HOWEVER if Elizabeth An FREEMAN died in 1877 and her parents' marriage was not until 1863, perhaps she was born before the marriage of her parents.
Sue
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The reason for my enquiry is that I am very much involved in researching those families who were either born, married, lived or died in Walhalla.
Leigh
Is this another of those families?
Cando
It would appear it is -
http://www.walhalla.org.au/news/1111Names.htm
Wonder if the group is aware of Leigh's public family tree which includes not only his own ancestors but those who had some sort of link with Walhalla. Over 60,000 names which incidentally include my gggrandfather who did not emigrate to Australia, only his wife and children made the journey.
The group welcome any information about those on their database along with any amendments.
Cando
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This looks like the burial of John Samuel WEAVER at Sandgate (near Newcastle)
WEAVER JOHN S 1910-12-09
There are a number of burials with the name BABER, some of which include the forename Sidmun/Sidnum. Ada is there also.
http://www.sandgatecemetery.org.au/index.php/search-our-virtual-records/undertake-a-search
Judith
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The reason for my enquiry is that I am very much involved in researching those families who were either born, married, lived or died in Walhalla.
Leigh
Is this another of those families?
Cando
It would appear it is -
http://www.walhalla.org.au/news/1111Names.htm
Wonder if the group is aware of Leigh's public family tree which includes not only his own ancestors but those who had some sort of link with Walhalla. Over 60,000 names which incidentally include my gggrandfather who did not emigrate to Australia, only his wife and children made the journey.
The group welcome any information about those on their database along with any amendments.
Cando
Mmmm..
So many names ::)
You would certainly have to buy a lot of certificates to verify all that.
Cando, perhaps it's just meant as kind of "loose guide" more than a valid historical reference document.
Sue
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I think the Walhalla Group website has been compiled from various resources and perhaps Aussie has contributed information. I did see the marriage for John Balfour PHILLIPS and Mary Jane FREEMAN there with a mention of two children. I emailed them a bit on my ancestor as he was the mining surveyor for East Gippsland and the number of children to his marriage was incorrect.
Spent a camping holiday in the area many, many moons ago when our eldest was a toddler :).
Cheers
Cando
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Perhaps aussie will get to a computer at the weekend and let us know if the information we have offered is of interest.
I know not everyone has continual access to a computer.
Sue
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Well done, everyone. You have (almost) pieced this together. I'm Elizabeth Ann & John Edward Freeman's gg grand daughter and have been trying to piece this together for over 30 years!
Elizabeth Ann was born in Adelaide, 28/May 1854, second child of John WASLEY and Mary Ann SPARGO. John and Mary Ann had married in Cornwall prior to travelling to Adelaide in 1848. John died on 19/Oct 1853, 7 months before Elizabeth's birth. Mary Ann's father and second family also came to Adelaide in 1849 and subsequently moved to Victoria by 1856. We presume Mary Ann moved with them or her second husband, surname RICHARDS. I'm still looking for this link! I'd love some help!
Next we find Mary Ann RICHARDS marrying John Samuel WEAVER (the grandpa in the grave at Sandgate) in 1863 in Forbes. Mary Ann and John Samuel then moved to the NZ goldfields of the south island, near Ross/Hokitika, by 1867 where Mary Ann and John WASLEY's eldest daughter, Mary Jane WASLEY marries Joseph BOTTOMLEY. The first two of their ten children are born at Ross, NZ, and the subsequent in Victoria.
Elizabeth Ann WASLEY married John Edward FREEMAN at Okarito NZ in 1869, aged 15. Their eldest daughter, Ada, was born at Five Mile Beach goldfield in 1870. Second daughter Elizabeth Ann (Annie) was born in Hokitika in 1872. Third daughter, Mary Jane (Ollie), was born 1874 at Home Rule goldfield near Gulgong. Son, John Edward was born Dec 31, 1876, at Log Paddock goldfield, near Mudgee.
Elizabeth Ann WASLEY/FREEMAN died 30 Jan 1877 (aged 22 years), and baby John Edward died 31 March 1877, both at Log Paddock. I presume the newspaper article cited is preferring to these two deaths. Interestingly, I think the article is also referring to husband John Edward FREEMAN, who was the publican at Log Paddock.
John Edward FREEMAN remarried a 20 year old widow Elizabeth Jane ROSEMANII (nee DAVIS) in Dec 1877, who also had one child to her first marriage, Joseph. John Edward and Eliza Jane only child, John Edward FREEMAN was born 17 Nov 1878. John Edward (snr) died in 1879 at Log Paddock.
The three daughters of John Edward FREEMAN and Elizabeth Ann (nee Wasley) were orphaned in 1879, aged 9, 7 and 5. They went to live with their grandmother, Mary Ann WEAVER (Richards/Wasley/nee Spargo) and her third husband, John Samuel WEAVER.
I have original copies (drawn up in 1877) of Elizabeth Ann's 1854 birth and her father's 1853 death, so it made me think that perhaps the children's grandmother bought these documents after her daughter's death in a sort of custody, proof of guardianship case.
After the girls went to their grandparents, the family bible says they lived in Sydney for some time in mid 1880s then to Melbourne by 1890s. The bible also has written in it in little children's writing: Mary Ann and John Samuel Weaver - we will always remember you, and the girls' names, all with the same birthdate - curious that they didn't know the true dates.
Eldest sister, Ada, joined the Salvation Army and was posted to Newcastle around 1899, where she met and married Sidmun BABER in 1900. John Samuel WEAVER (Ada's grandmother's third husband) moved to Newcastle and lived with Ada and Sid sometime thereafter. Ada and Sidmun were buried with John Samuel WEAVER (died 1910), in Sandgate Cemetery.
Second sister, Elizabeth Ann (Annie) FREEMAN, also joined the Salvation Army. She married Alfred HARDY in 1908 and had three children - Linda, Enid and Alfred.
Youngest sister, Mary Jane FREEMAN, married John Balfour PHILLIPS in Melbourne in 1894. Their twins (Ella Olive and Clement John) were born in Walhalla in 1898. After this they moved to Waihi NZ, another gold mining location. By 1920, Mary Jane was widow and living in Kentucky USA with her daughter. Unfortunately Ella died just before her wedding. Clement joined the Navy. By 1929 Mary Jane was living in Queensland where she married Paul MAGGS. She died in 1961.
One question I still have burning is - where did baby John Edward FREEMAN, son of John Edward and Eliza Jane FREEMAN, b 1878, go? I've tied to trace this through his mother's subsequent movements and remarriages, and those also of his half brothers, but to no avail. I'd love help with this!
After John Edward FREEMAN's death Eliza Jane (Freeman/Rosemanii nee Davis) remarried Thomas HOWER in 1880 Mudgee. They had three children (Thomas Christian 1880, Herbert H 1885-1944, Clarendon C 1887-1887) before Thomas HOWER died 1889 at Dubbo. Eliza Jane (Hower/Freeman/Rosemanii nee Davis) then married Hector Angus MCNABB at Nyngan in 1891. They had two children (Hector James Alexander b.1892 Dubbo-d.1965 & Rubina Gladys b.1892 Bourke-d.1894 near Cobar).
Anyway, if you've read this far WELL DONE!
And WELL DONE for those who pieced together much of the above.
I'd love to hear from someone.
Thank you.
Helen
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Hi Helen
I think you may have found your John Edward Freeman. Like you I have been researching the Hower/Howe/McNabb/Davis etc family for over 25 years. I am a descendant of Edward James McNabb. I had always thought Elizabeth Lila Jane nee Davis may have had Edward James & Joseph prior to the Hower marriage.
A few things you mention about the Freemans etc seem to tie with verbal information I have been told.
I will send you a PM.
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Hi Helen
I think you may have found your John Edward Freeman. Like you I have been researching the Hower/Howe/McNabb/Davis etc family for over 25 years. I am a descendant of Edward James McNabb. I had always thought Elizabeth Lila Jane nee Davis may have had Edward James & Joseph prior to the Hower marriage.
A few things you mention about the Freemans etc seem to tie with verbal information I have been told.
I will send you a PM.
Hi Helen and JAMXR,
I'm also a descendant of Edward James McNabb, looking at the family history on this side for the first time in many years. After stumbling across this thread and looking a few things up, it seems I have also tweaked to what may have likely become of the child John Edward Freeman. I know this chat is a few years old, but if either of you are still active on here, could you send me a message?
Cheers