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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Telsurrey on Wednesday 27 August 14 10:54 BST (UK)

Title: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: Telsurrey on Wednesday 27 August 14 10:54 BST (UK)
Eleanor H Blackburn b1890, and her younger sister Nora b1899 left South Shields for Wigan in late 20s or 30s. Eleanor was accompanied by her husband Charles Henry Bland b1889, married 1910 plus three children. Nora was with her 'husband' Thomas William D Molyneux b1898. I can find no marital details for Nora, but her 'husband' was married to Agnes Calvert in 1925 at Cleethorpes, child Hazel born the following year. This probably explains the absence of their marriage details! Now here is the problem!
During my researches, I came across the following surprising marriage between Nora's 'husband' Thomas, and her sister Eleanor in Wigan, 1945! I have been unable to find any death dates for Nora or Eleanor's husband for this period which would allow such a 'marriage'. Help please!
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 27 August 14 11:23 BST (UK)
Hi there

I have found Eleanor's birth (Mar qtr 1890) and marriage (Mar qtr 1910) as Eleanor Hawthorn Blackburn, both events in South Shields.

What was Nora's full name at birth please?  It's unusual to see a Nora as a sister of an Eleanor, as often Nora was used as a diminutive for Eleanor.
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 27 August 14 11:25 BST (UK)
They may have divorced. It was becoming easier for ordinary people to do this although in most cases it took 7 years.
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: [Ray] on Wednesday 27 August 14 11:30 BST (UK)
Hi

Nora never married?
Death Sep 1941 Durham S.E.    10a   102 Nora Blackburn    (41y)

Ray
   
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 27 August 14 11:34 BST (UK)
Birth, September qtr 1899
South Shields district     vol 10a, page 836

Blackburn, Nora
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 27 August 14 11:39 BST (UK)
Listed on the census as Nellie & Norah.
Charles Henry Bland died in 1976:
15 Sep 1889
Date of Registration:
Sep 1976
Age at Death:
87
Registration district:
Birkenhead
Merseyside
Volume:
37
Page:
0837
Edit:might not be him
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: [Ray] on Wednesday 27 August 14 11:52 BST (UK)
Hi

(Amended)

Relevant . . . . . ?

Hazel born Grimsby?
Hazel E Molyneaux ( mmn Calver )
1926 Q3 Grimsby 7a 987

Marriage Dec 1925 Grimsby 7a 1543
Agnes Calver / Thomas W D Molyneux


Death Jun 1941 Grimsby    7a 1450 Charles Bland (58y)


Ray
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: Neil Hotson on Wednesday 27 August 14 11:53 BST (UK)
Bigamy was quite easy until 1984; only then did the database start. It's a big country and probably only bad luck would catch you out. A lot of working class people didn't bother with the legal side.
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: jim1 on Wednesday 27 August 14 12:17 BST (UK)
Quote
Death Jun 1941 Grimsby    7a 1450 Charles Bland (58y)
Gives a birth of 1883.
The only Charles Henry Bland birth I can see in S. Shields 1889 is this one;


Birth Date:
9 Feb 1889
Baptism Date:
10 Mar 1889
Baptism Place:
St. Hildas, South Shields, Durham, England
Father:
William Bland   
Mother:
Mary Elizabeth Bland 
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: Telsurrey on Wednesday 27 August 14 12:20 BST (UK)
Thanks all, for the suggestions. Ray, how do I know this is the Nora from South Shields? Fits the time scale nicely! It appears Charles Henry Bland lived on into his 80s. Might have separated. Can anyone get a death date for Eleanor H Blackburn/Bland/Molyneux?
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 27 August 14 12:21 BST (UK)
Eleanor Hawthorn Molyneux b 31 Dec 1889 died Dec qtr 1969 Chorley.

Per FreeBMD: www.freebmd.org.uk
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: Telsurrey on Wednesday 27 August 14 12:32 BST (UK)
That was quick, AVM! Thanks!
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: [Ray] on Wednesday 27 August 14 14:01 BST (UK)
Hi

How will you know? Death certifcate may tell you (address, who reported, etc)

"It appears Charles Henry Bland lived on into his 80s".
It appears a Charles Henry Bland may have lived on into his 80s.
Birth dates do not tally (Sept vs Feb)
 
"Might have separated."
May have had another family.

"Gives a birth date of 1883"
Yes. There is no guarantee that either find is correct.
Whoever regd the death(s) may not have had the full facts.
Again, (either) Death certifcate(s) may tell you (address, who reported, etc)


:-)

Ray


Births Jun 1885 S. Shields 10a 733 Charles Henry Bland
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: [Ray] on Wednesday 27 August 14 14:08 BST (UK)
Hi

This made me smile . . . . .

Agnes Calver's brother

Birth Dec 1905 Grimsby    7a   565 Lord Charles Calver
Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: [Ray] on Wednesday 27 August 14 14:14 BST (UK)
Hi

Possibly, a more appropriate birth (date/quarter) registration?

Birth Dec 1889 Wirral 8a 434 Charles Henry Bland
would cover the CHB death details in 1976

Title: Re: Two sisters born late 19th century who left South Shields for Wigan. A problem!
Post by: Telsurrey on Wednesday 27 August 14 16:27 BST (UK)
Hi Ray
Yes, 'Lord Charles' for a coal trimmer's son was very funny!
Thanks for the info on death certificates. I am sure that 1889 is correct for Charles Henry Bland as I have checked the 1911 Census with his birth details. First qtr 1889. There was another similarly named from South Shields born in 1895. Confusing! Still not convinced about Nora's death date and place. But she may have been in a hospital at Shotley Bridge specialising in TB sufferers. On the other hand, she may have married someone else, and vanished! I am going to find out if she had children. Tel